locogato11283 Posted April 12, 2005 Report Share Posted April 12, 2005 I know your brother had a crappy dyno sheet thats not easy to make out. No one should care about HP numbers... everyone has HP as being the most important thing when it's actually the torque that is doing the work. Would you say a bike with 45#'s of torque with a 1000rpm width at 5k rpms would be more rideable than a bike with 45#'s at 7k-10k rpms for a 3k wide powerband? Basically what I'm saying is what matters the most in making a rideable machine is how wide the torque curve is and how much over rev the bike will have. From the sounds of it you were drag racing on 01bansheeke's bike. That short amount of time on any unfamiliar bike isn't enough time to give an honest opinion. If you rode a Blaster for 6 months what do you think your opinion of a Banshee would be after a few mins of riding? I know I would be impressed with the power but complain how much you have to shift. 353795[/snapback] ill agree about the torque vs hp deal. what im saying is that i would rather ride a 55 hp with however many ft lbs of torque banshee with a power range of 4000rpm to 9500rpm in the trails than a motor that makes 80+ hp and 50 ft lbs of torque with a power range of 6000rpm to 11000rpm. i guess what it comes down to is what kinda trails you were riding. we ride tight, technical trails with tons of trees and shit like that. a big hp motor with a power range that comes on later wouldnt last 2 seconds in these trails. also, i have more time on 01bansheeke's engine than you realize. i didnt ride it for 5 mins and come to my conclusion. like you said, you shouldnt worry too much about hp numbers, which i dont. most of my conclusions and opinions come from countless hours of riding on these different motors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89Steeda Posted April 12, 2005 Report Share Posted April 12, 2005 My 68mm+4mm stroke Cub is running 35 PWKs. Pilot it a 48 and mains are 148. Runs great at sea level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
locogato11283 Posted April 12, 2005 Report Share Posted April 12, 2005 My 68mm+4mm stroke Cub is running 35 PWKs. Pilot it a 48 and mains are 148. Runs great at sea level. 353823[/snapback] yea that wouldnt cut it here. we are at 1000 feet above sea level. 35mm pwk here generally run from 158 to 165 depending on temperature and other mods.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89Steeda Posted April 12, 2005 Report Share Posted April 12, 2005 Wouldn't I need to jet down if I went up in elevation? I should have more air avaliable down at sea level. I'm asking cause I don't really know the answer to this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDD Posted April 12, 2005 Report Share Posted April 12, 2005 Wouldn't I need to jet down if I went up in elevation? I should have more air avaliable down at sea level. I'm asking cause I don't really know the answer to this. 353831[/snapback] There are many other factors to determining the right jets for your Banshee. Altitude is one of them. You would need to rejet as you rise in altitude typically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1800bigk Posted April 12, 2005 Report Share Posted April 12, 2005 I know 1800bigK's Full Cheetah doesn't have the powervalves in it and he says the motor has more torque than a YFZ. I don't know if this is true or not but it really doesn't matter anyway. 353813[/snapback] I have both bikes and I am going to the dyno within the next few weeks. I will take both bikes with me and get the torque curves and post them. Torque is what you guys feel when something has a lot of low end. Even if Im wrong I will still post them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trail rider Posted April 12, 2005 Report Share Posted April 12, 2005 Care to tell the rest of us HQ members exactly what makes up a good trail motor? Please be as specific as possible and include port timing numbers. You have posted in just about every thread about Cubs that they are drag/race motors. 353703[/snapback] Here's what I think is a good trail motor. One that has lots of power ( if you prefer lots ) but you also have to be able to control and use what power you have. To me, if you want lots of mid, top end for trails and your capable of the high speeds and handling it and using it, then the cubs should make ur day . If your just some guy who will think he's a badass or somethin just cause he's got cub cylinders with lots of hp or torque, but ain't got the balls or skillz to handle the power then it wont be fun at all . I guess you could kinda compare useing a wood's ported shee and a cub shee in the trails to riding a four stroke trail bike and a 2 stroke race bike. I'd much rather be on the trail bike cause the power is better suited to that type of riding with plenty of low and mid range. The race bikes can be rode on the trails, you just gotta ride them different. I've rode 250's and 125's on my trails and their fun as hell with that hard hittin' power band. But Its alot harder for me to ride fast on one cause to really use the power you have to ride balls out. I can ride faster on the trail bike cause its set up better. But I've seen guys who absolutly haul ass on my trails on a 125 or 250 and I can't even stay with em cause they can handle that type of power. My banshee is set up perfect for trails. It has all the power that I need and can use. I just have bill's pipes, a good low-mid pipe, and I'm geared low,13/41. I never have to feather or use the clutch. All I do it punch the throttle when ever I need power. I can ride fast through my trails in 2nd or 3rd gear usin no more than 1/2 throttle, which is where most of my power is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patriot Racing Posted April 14, 2005 Report Share Posted April 14, 2005 The Cub can be made into a very good trail motor- just takes some thought and a slightly different than bolt-on approach that we are capable of to go make good power. The port timings that the Cubs come with are somewhat aggressive for what most riders would need for trail riding. These are the as-cast set-up. However we can drop the cylinders via no base gasket, and use Banshee pistons- which has a higher pin to timing edge than a Blaster piston does. This sets the port timings lower at TDC- as TDC is now higher in relation to the cylinder. You can also deck the base of the cylinder to drop the port timings. The Cubs are an absolutely astounding cylinder- they have great potential- instead of us having to work to squeak out the ever-last little bit of HP and Tq from the crappy stock cylinders- we are actually having to look to de-tune the port timings some to make it a more favorable trail motor. So absolutely yes the Cub can be set-up to made a good trail motor- just as mentioned takes a bit of tweaking to adapt it to an application. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDD Posted April 14, 2005 Report Share Posted April 14, 2005 The Cub can be made into a very good trail motor- just takes some thought and a slightly different than bolt-on approach that we are capable of to go make good power. The port timings that the Cubs come with are somewhat aggressive for what most riders would need for trail riding. These are the as-cast set-up. However we can drop the cylinders via no base gasket, and use Banshee pistons- which has a higher pin to timing edge than a Blaster piston does. This sets the port timings lower at TDC- as TDC is now higher in relation to the cylinder. You can also deck the base of the cylinder to drop the port timings. The Cubs are an absolutely astounding cylinder- they have great potential- instead of us having to work to squeak out the ever-last little bit of HP and Tq from the crappy stock cylinders- we are actually having to look to de-tune the port timings some to make it a more favorable trail motor. So absolutely yes the Cub can be set-up to made a good trail motor- just as mentioned takes a bit of tweaking to adapt it to an application. 354884[/snapback] Thanks Dan for coming in here and clearing up some misconceptions about the new Cub cylinders. One thing I would recommend people do is upgrade their suspensions before running a Cub cylinder. You'll be going much faster with all the power on tap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noob41 Posted April 14, 2005 Report Share Posted April 14, 2005 wow, I didnt know he was a member here, finally an engine builder on here that know his ass from a hole in ground. And his engines make real horsepower, none of that bubble gum faggot motors that go bog bog ......burrrrrappp bing ding dign Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjm02ram Posted April 14, 2005 Report Share Posted April 14, 2005 Who are you talking about??? I know it cant be PassionRe!! Ive got mine tuned great now and it doesnt bog...Runs great, does exactly what I built it to do. Also if you do a search Jim responds to a lot of posts with helpfull info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
01bansheeke Posted April 14, 2005 Report Share Posted April 14, 2005 this is gay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer Posted April 14, 2005 Report Share Posted April 14, 2005 (edited) what the fuck are you all talking about? that was dan wade from patriot racing. Edited April 14, 2005 by gimmeabeer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
locogato11283 Posted April 14, 2005 Report Share Posted April 14, 2005 what the fuck are you all talking about? that was dan wade from patriot racing. 355073[/snapback] haha yea i know. not sure where passion came involved here. thats patriot up there talking...haha, we were about to have a passion bashing still, i think itd be alot easier to just have a set of stock cylinders ported with a woods port than get these fancy cylinders that i still dont believe would have the bottom end a good woods port can have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigboybanshee Posted April 14, 2005 Report Share Posted April 14, 2005 haha yea i know. not sure where passion came involved here. thats patriot up there talking...haha, we were about to have a passion bashing still, i think itd be alot easier to just have a set of stock cylinders ported with a woods port than get these fancy cylinders that i still dont believe would have the bottom end a good woods port can have. 355123[/snapback] I agree...buying a set of cubs and "de-tuning" them to make them trail friendly is like buying a turbo for your car only to run 2 pounds of boost What's the point? If you're going to spend that much on a set of cylinders why not open them up as much as possible to achieve the highest possible HP, etc.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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