muggzy

Continued this topic on the repairs and mods forum at: http://bansheehq.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=143154

OK, I posted in the Jetting and Exhaust forum with this issue http://bansheehq.com...pic=142754&st=0 and haven't got this solved yet. banshee_R1 suggested that I try this topic on this forum instead so what the hell, let's give it one more shot. Here's the summary: Getting my filter wet will cause a seemingly lean condition (engine RPMs runaway with no load) Mods are as stated in my sig. Did a leak-down test (7lbs for 7mins with a 20psi full-scale gage) and the needle movement was barely discernible. My compression is 145 on both with 65mm pistons and 22cc domes @ 900ft. My friend, with years of experience building and racing banshees (and servicing virtually every other quad out there) was trying to help me with this troubleshooting. 1) While running at idle, slides synced and bottomed to the idle screws, water was sprayed directly onto the filter with a spray bottle until the race condition starts. So this isn't slides sticking, no slide movement during this test means NO sticking slides and the ONLY thing getting wet here is the filter itself. 2) To see if there is an air leak that the leak-down wouldn't catch, brake cleaner was sprayed all over the intake side of the carbs looking for a leak. There was no change in the idle. 3) We took off the filter and tried covering the pro-flow adapter (manually choking the engine) and while it didn't seem as sensitive as it ought to when the intake was being covered, it did bog as if choked and DID NOT race. So this seems directly related to the water. Does anybody have anything to add to what was done diagnostically? Or think they can explain what is happening? Feel free to chime in.

I just tried to do did some troubleshooting a couple of days ago: While the engine was warmed up and sitting at idle, which was strong and slow, I began spraying my filter from a spray bottle with water. I continued spritzing the filter until it began to race. There was NO throttle movement while this condition was being created; therefore NO sticking slides. Remember, the leak-down test was perfect (I did 7lbs for 7 min+ with no loss of pressure) and so was the compression (145psi ea) a few days ago. So i began looking for a leak in the carb-airbox area: I restarted the engine and while idling normally, started spraying everything in that area with brake cleaner - nothing. If there was a leak, this should have disrupted the idle. It didn't. The guy who was helping me and has years of experience building/servicing banshees (and many other quads), watched as I recreated the condition and while it was racing, reached in and pulled, tugged and twisted both carbs. There was no change in the condition. So his answer was basically the same as everyone elses, don't get it wet. He gave me a stock, undrilled airbox cover and said to take off the snorkle and try running with that for a while. So I still have no answers that are worth a damn. Since you've "never had a problem", if you want to help your friend (and me ), and see if this is some sort of "normal" problem that rarely shows up. Get a spray bottle and spritz your filter for a good while until it races or bogs and let us know which way it goes. We all seem to agree that the engine should bog, but I'm beginning to believe that they'll ALL behave this way and it's some sort of phenomena that simply isn't understood.

You can check that visually. As far as starting is concerned, it'll be close enough even if it's not optimal. Just look down the throat of the carbs and make sure the slides bottom at the same time. Good luck

Did you try disconnecting the TORS?

Sounds like your TORS may be bad. There's a switch in the throttle box (on the handle bars) that closes(?) at the very bottom of throttle free play. You could try disconnecting the box on the left side up under the gas tank. There's lots of how to's on here to disconnect it all.

Not true. Wrong side will fit if it's put in backwards too. It's not an uncommon mistake, it happens and makes the engine run like shit and especially hard to adjust at low speeds. If you look into the throat of the carbs with the air filter removed, the bottom edge of the slides facing you should be "cut off", not flat-bottom cylinders. This is why I said to get he Clymer's manual for the banshee. The pics will show you what to look for and walk you through step-by-step if you need to disassemble/reassemble anything.

Get a Clymer's manual. It'll give you step by step w/pics. Best $30 you'll ever spend on your banshee.

swap plug wires and see if the problem moves. Jetting doesn't mean jack if you're running on one cylinder. I had a similar prob when I rebuilt my engine and my pilots and needles were lean.

I had the same problem with my Blaster (but a clutch is basically a clutch, right). Left my crankcase empty for ~2 weeks and moisture caused the fiber plates to stick to the metal plates. I took apart the clutch and pealed the fibers/plates apart, (could see the fibers outlined on the metal), soaked them in fresh tranny oil and put the thing back together. It still stuck a little initially but it's fine now.

Normally, I hit the kill switch first and it keeps running, then I pull the choke to finally kill it. Last time, I just reached for the choke first (since this is what It's taken in the past to shut her down after the kill switch doesn't do it) and it didn't work. So I hit the kill switch and she did shut down. I'm gonna start methodically troubleshooting this week as I get some time. First I'll try to cause the condition by spraying water into the prefilter covering my airbox ONLY. Then, once I get the "runaway" problem to show predictably under very controlled circumstances, I'll confirm what it takes to shut it off and see what I can figure out from there.

Are you serious? This discussion is about what to use for tranny oil (in your crankcase). You mixed it with fuel and ran your engine on it? Did I miss something or are you pulling our chain?

Hey BHQ, I'm looking for a pair of 21cc domes for a Prodesign Cool Head.

Thanks Asswhore, yeah i double checked all of the rubber everywhere that wasn't checked by the leak-down test that I did a couple of days ago; throttle cable boots that pull down over the carb-top nipples, carb-top gaskets, and carb-to-airbox rubber. It's all mint. Nice and plyable with no cracks. I got a local performance guy that want's to take a look at it. I think I'm gonna give him a crack at it one afternoon this week and see what he can find.

Yep, carbs are stock. It just happened again yesterday after I washed her down. I went straight for the choke this time but that wasn't enough so I flipped off the kill switch and that shut her down. "How can you tell that they're not sticking?" to confirm or reject this idea, without doing anything else, and as gently as possible, I took the wet prefilter off the top of my airbox and removed the K&N filter from the ProFlo adapter. Looking straight down the throats of the carbs with a flashlight, both slides were bottomed out. Started and reran the engine first without the filter for a minute and then with just the K&N remounted - ran fine both ways. Put the wet prefilter back on and revs like crazy again. "Maybe the water on your filter is contaminated with nitromethane " Funny

A bigger rear sprocket will increase bottom end power and decrease top end speed. If you wanna keep your characteristics the same, go up ~one tooth in the front for every three you add in the back. You oughta replace both sprockets when you put a new chain on anyway.<br><br>

They will be one inch shorter.

Air is flowing through the carb, but some is being displaced by water. However, the venturi effect/Bernoulli's principle still works* and fuel is coming through the carb. or simply low air flow as if the choke were on in your lawn mower. This means that the air-fuel ratio is too rich (<14:1) for optimal combustion so we should have a rich condition that we would expect. What's getting into the the cylinder however, is somehow lean. *If you put pure water through the carb, it would still suck fuel up with it - think about a garden sprayer hooked to the end of your garden hose. Water still suckes bug killer/weed killer/fertilizer/whatever from the hose-end container (bowl) using exactly the same principle.

Get off my thread. Lmk when you start your own and I have an (at least partial) explanation for you.

Sorry, It's not the stock carbs sticking (at least in my case). Removing my wet prefilter (or the airbox cover) and the problem goes away with the wet material.

This discussion has been continued on a new thread: http://bansheehq.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=142754

OK here goes, I know there's been some recent posts regarding this issue ( http://bansheehq.com...howtopic=142399 ) and the answer is "change the filter to Uni's" However no one seems to be able to splain why getting my filter wet results in the symptom of the engine behaving like it is lean. I have some speculation that when I thought it through, seemed to make sense but upon further thought is probably off (see the link). So bear with me my while I get this out: 1st; I would expect a wet filter to behave like the engine is being choked (rich) due to the restricted air flow and under load (in my case) it does. 2nd; But, unloading the engine by pulling in the clutch or putting it in neutral causes the engine to race out of control so that even flipping the kill switch wont shut her down. The only way to shut her down that works (for me) is to pull the choke. I just did leak-down test @ 7lbs for 7min+ and there was virtually NO movement on a 20lb full-scale meter so there was plenty of resolution and really, no air leaking. Checked my compression and I'm getting exactly 145psi on both cylinders. Slides have been checked and re-checked and they're perfect, my jetting is a little on the rich side but the pilots and bleeders are so nice that I can idle low and slow all day long once it's warmed up. btw, i've also got the tors completely removed and idle screws installed and well adjusted. So the question is this: Why, with a wet filter would the engine run lean?

These guys are just having a little fun. And Savage, I don't know how you found that video, but LMFAO. Seriously though, we need to know what mods you've got and like Jereme said, when did it start acting up?

You probably got your air filter wet. DO NOT run it like that, dry off the filter and if it happens again use the choke to shut it off since the cut-off switch probably wont work either.