sheeblue01 Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 My magic engineering crystal ball says that's exactly what you will see. :thumbsup: I hope you have a receipt for that magic engineering crystal ball. :biggrin: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireHead Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 I hope you have a receipt for that magic engineering crystal ball. :biggrin: A couple points to help make my point: 1.) Compare diesel automobile registration from 15 years ago to current figures in North America. I bet you will find that it has risen by about 1100% (no kidding). This is way outside of the rate of increase in general automobiles on the road as well. 2.) Look at the LeMans race series, compare the diesel entrants and winners from 10 years ago until now. I bet you'll be surprised what you find. With that said, for all of you that doubt my engineering crystal ball's ability's (with respect to TRD in NASCAR), look at what the TRD boys did in Daytona today. Fucking awesome! I am very proud of those guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheeblue01 Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 I am not sure there would be a performance gain beyond a certain point. Obviously the engine speed would need to be adjusted for the diesel combustion cycle which mean torque would go up and horsepower would go down. Mostly, the diesel thing is just something fun to do........ :geek: I agree, it will be something neat to see when it is done. I apologize for saying that it is the "dumbest idea ever". I am just tired of all the diesel guys that think their 8000 lb truck is a sports car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireHead Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 I agree, it will be something neat to see when it is done. I apologize for saying that it is the "dumbest idea ever". I am just tired of all the diesel guys that think their 8000 lb truck is a sports car. I agree. The diesel truck is a sports car thing is definitely one of the new American dumb things. :biggrin: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camatv Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 well back to the original question.. the rz banshee swap is pretty straight forward the pv's work ok but overall i would rather have a nicely ported stock motor over an rz type any day. as far as a "woods" type bike the 4 strokes are very very nice in this category. i LOVED my 426cc 400ex for wods riding it was light handled excellent and rode beautifuly in tight stuff .. a 2-1 pipe on a woods bike is a HUGE waste. just keep the stockers as far as i am concerened... the procircuits are in my opinion the best overall pipe they have killer bottom and an actual overrev that these motors were designed to do. the rz's can have electrical issues witht he control boxes and cause problems taht you woudl have never noticed and will tear your hair out to figure out. the transmissions are geared for the street bikes and all in all i just say no to them.. the PV cheeta motors are very very powerful. the 409cc bolt on bottom end cylinder thats pv's if ported corectlly will make tremendious bottom and mid/top power its undescribable. i have a 485cc PV cheeta and it s on alky i started with a bare cylinder adn ported it to the powervalves.. and ran it in a stock lightened chassis witha +6 arm and 2 forward j-arms it was extremely hard to launch with out the front going sky hi it als would just wheelie as i went throuhg the gears never setting down i had to ride the tank the whole way down. fun but not as fast as i'd like.. i am now going to be trying to launch the bike extremely hard in a drag type chassis and see what i can do for low 60ft times using the pv;s to create a ton of tq and keep the tires spin to a minimun i believe the pv's in drag motors have not been fully realized yet. dragger say oh well i launch my motor at 8500 rpms' yea me to BUT i know if my motor can pull taller gearing and launch at 6500 roms that means an extra 2000 rpm's or run time in betweena shift. and hopefully the tires wont break loose as bad. and the bike will explode dout of the hole. in a few months i will have that one done.. we will see.. the pv motors will run any pipes that are out there right now as far as the rz's i am unsure i know they have to be clearerd for the huge rz head.. not necesairly the pv's them selves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4stroker Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 im sorry camatv but you are WRONG you obviously have little to no experience with RZ motors! rz motors are a straight forward swap, and every little issue you have with them is easily solved trans ratios: run the rz top end on the banshee bottom... easy, or even better, just swap a banshee tranny into the rz cases, so you can take advantage of the better rz shifting mechanism electrics: most rz motors are over 20 yrs old, anything that old is gonna have electrical problems. the good part is you can buy brand new, fully programmable cdi's and fully programmable pv control units, with hand held controller, for very little money. you can write whatever curve you like for the PVs to open and close, you can make em close further than stock, open higher than stock, you can make em do whatever you like! the electric motor that controls the pvs can also be had brand new, they are the exact same part that controls the exup valves on R1's. the pipe issue is not with the "huge rz head" it is the left pipe not clearing the left pv housing. this is an easy fix, you just machine a new super flat cover for the housing and all pipes will fit. (my toomeys fit with this anyway) if they still dont fit, space the pipe out at the pipe hanger, and/or massage a small dent in the pipe where it touces the pv housing. if you dont like any of those options, use paul turner pipes or rocket pipes. my 2 cents! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RZBansheeMan Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 im sorry camatv but you are WRONG you obviously have little to no experience with RZ motors! rz motors are a straight forward swap, and every little issue you have with them is easily solved trans ratios: run the rz top end on the banshee bottom... easy, or even better, just swap a banshee tranny into the rz cases, so you can take advantage of the better rz shifting mechanism electrics: most rz motors are over 20 yrs old, anything that old is gonna have electrical problems. the good part is you can buy brand new, fully programmable cdi's and fully programmable pv control units, with hand held controller, for very little money. you can write whatever curve you like for the PVs to open and close, you can make em close further than stock, open higher than stock, you can make em do whatever you like! the electric motor that controls the pvs can also be had brand new, they are the exact same part that controls the exup valves on R1's. the pipe issue is not with the "huge rz head" it is the left pipe not clearing the left pv housing. this is an easy fix, you just machine a new super flat cover for the housing and all pipes will fit. (my toomeys fit with this anyway) if they still dont fit, space the pipe out at the pipe hanger, and/or massage a small dent in the pipe where it touces the pv housing. if you dont like any of those options, use paul turner pipes or rocket pipes. my 2 cents! My thoughts exactly !!! The Banshee engine is nothing more than a very Detuned RZ engine to begin with with less HP and Torque. The ultimate woods engine would include a RZ top end, RZ shift forks and drum, and of course a 4 mil crank with appropriate porting. Yamaha was way ahead of it's time when it came out with the YPVS, kinda interesting how "honda" uses a electronically controlled PV on their CR's now. As stated most the electrical problems were from using parts that were 20+ years old that may have been inadequate or faulty, a whole NEW completely programmable ignition system and PV controller can be had for about 400 $ shipped to the U.S., it can be used with the stock Banshee stator also. Stock the RZ's have appx. 197 - 200 degree exhaust durations (depending on year) when the Valves are fully open, so therefore you could have your cake and eat it too, tons of grunt and asshaulin' top. I would be willing to bet a side by side comparo using a set of 1UA RZ barrels with stock porting - stock carbs - T-5's - Hell, even stock electrical components, all on a Banshee VS. Stock cylinder - a silly 2:1 pipe - a silly 2:1 carb - a "woods" or "trail" port.............I'd bet that the RZ powered shee will do everything just as well if not better in the woods, trails and definately kick it the stock cylindered shee's ass duning or dragging. I've never understood why anybody would want to choke a banshee motor up with all that 2:1 shit to try and make a torquey combo out of it when there are far superior options to make torque, broad powerband and not "LOOSE" all it's famed top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomMs1 Posted February 20, 2008 Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 how much can you get a topend from a RZ? What wiring would have to be done to splice into the Stock banshee wiring? I actualy am curently looking for a good project but do not know where to buy parts for them....I see parts show up every now and then on the for sale, part of this forum, but is there any other places to buy a RZ topend? and where can you buy these new powervalves and electronics? Sorry for all the questions just trying to spark some more conversation on the subject. thanks all of you for all of the great information keep it comming! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireHead Posted February 20, 2008 Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 im sorry camatv but you are WRONG you obviously have little to no experience with RZ motors! rz motors are a straight forward swap, and every little issue you have with them is easily solved trans ratios: run the rz top end on the banshee bottom... easy, or even better, just swap a banshee tranny into the rz cases, so you can take advantage of the better rz shifting mechanism electrics: most rz motors are over 20 yrs old, anything that old is gonna have electrical problems. the good part is you can buy brand new, fully programmable cdi's and fully programmable pv control units, with hand held controller, for very little money. you can write whatever curve you like for the PVs to open and close, you can make em close further than stock, open higher than stock, you can make em do whatever you like! the electric motor that controls the pvs can also be had brand new, they are the exact same part that controls the exup valves on R1's. the pipe issue is not with the "huge rz head" it is the left pipe not clearing the left pv housing. this is an easy fix, you just machine a new super flat cover for the housing and all pipes will fit. (my toomeys fit with this anyway) if they still dont fit, space the pipe out at the pipe hanger, and/or massage a small dent in the pipe where it touces the pv housing. if you dont like any of those options, use paul turner pipes or rocket pipes. my 2 cents! Good post! I am a fan of this topic and will admit to not knowing enough about the specifics involved in this swap. I love ;earning about this stuff. :geek: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastrthnu Posted February 20, 2008 Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 Good post! I am a fan of this topic and will admit to not knowing enough about the specifics involved in this swap. I love ;earning about this stuff. :geek: just use and rz500 and get it over with http://cgi.ebay.com/RD500-RD-RZ-500-RZ500-...ksid=p1638.m122 :biggrin: Im doing this motor too. I rode a friend of mine(s) bike that had rz top end and it felt like 10-15 more hp than mine on bottom and 5 or so on top. I was sold. I just need to find a shift drum and forks and possbly new replacement electronics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4stroker Posted February 20, 2008 Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 thanks firehead! www.zeeltronic.com for the programmable ignitions and pv controller borut is awesome really knows his stuff and will answer any questions i paypal'ed him the money and got my parts like 2 weeks later no worries! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broke Posted February 20, 2008 Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 The Banshee engine is nothing more than a very Detuned RZ engine to begin with with less HP and Torque. The ultimate woods engine would include a RZ top end, RZ shift forks and drum, and of course a 4 mil crank with appropriate porting. That's interesting you posted that. I had a 4mm 12 port RZ with RZ shift forks and drum in my Outlaw. There is no Banshee jugged motor that can compare, I don't care who ported it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yaxy Posted February 20, 2008 Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 If you are interested in the RZ swop by all means try it. There are some past posts here on the HQ that discuss the wiring and there is also some schematics that some folks have provided. If you do a search and take your time the wiring is not difficult. Depending on your appearance preference the hardest part is where to mount all the components. I have an 06 Rzshee and an 89 shee with identical mods except for the pipes. I run 14-41 external gearing on both quads and am using the stock RZ transmission on the RZshee. The RZ shifts much smoother than the shee and is hard to get used to at first. You do not have that distinctive click when you hit the shifter. Even though the RZ is geared a tad higher it is hard to realize because the powervalves do offer some advantage on the bottom end. It is a tad better than my regular shee which has exceptional low end. I can ride either quad at any obsticel I through at them but wehre I really like the RZ is on the fire/seasonal roads. Since 90% of my riding is this so the taller gearing is great. The RZ just want sto go, more throttle the better. I have heard stories about powervalves help ease the power delivery and all I say is BS. My RZ hits sooner, harder and longer than my shee and just keeps pulling. The RZ has power everywhere and is a great all around motor, Powervalves down low and a stock drag port on top what else can you ask for. Best bang for the buck if you can find one. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastCoast Banshee Posted February 20, 2008 Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 Gas engines > Diesel engines, the only thing that diesel engines are good for is towing. If diesel engines were "superior" to gas engines then you would see them in every car on the road and every race car. Actually audi has a diesel race car its pretty fucken sick btw. look it up its call the r10. Honestly if automakers took the time im sure diesels would be far more economical than gas engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireHead Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 just use and rz500 and get it over with http://cgi.ebay.com/RD500-RD-RZ-500-RZ500-...ksid=p1638.m122 :biggrin: I have been trying to buy one of those bikes fro several years now. I had one in my sights when I was in SoCal, but the ex-fiance shot me down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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