Thack82

IMO the the Smart Carbs and other Fuel Induction Options are a better a better option than the electronic TBI systems that are available for the Banshee at this time. With a programmable digital ignition system like the Dynatek-FS and a Fuel Induction Setup you get all the benefits of a TBI setup without the tuning headaches, additional weight, and cost. The only real difference between a programmable digital ignition/fuel induction setup and TBI is the the rider makes the adjustments VS the ECM. The performance gains between the two will be very close. The only way Fuel Injection on the Banshee would only be a better choice as far as cost and performance is concerned is if somebody like CP developed a mono cylinder setup that was casted for a direct injection bolt on fuel injection kit (ECM, Battery, Harness, and Injectors) then you could reap the benefits in performance and cost over the basic fuel induction and digital ignition system. I've run the Dyna-FS Digital Ignition and Thunder Products Intelajet Fuel Induction System on my Banshee for the past 2yrs and IMO it would be hard to beat by any bolt on electric TBI Kit available as of right now for the Banshee.

I can't say enough about the quality and design of the new Cotton Branch Racing Case Saver for the Banshee! All Banshee owners should buy one of his case savers, it's fairly lightweight and it offers outstanding case protection. With a Polyurethane Chain Slid'n Guide and a Upper Frame Chain Roller used in conjunction with the Cotton Branch Racing Case Saver you center cases are protected. I looked at my setup for quite a while the other night and I can't find a way for the chain to damage the center cases with all three components. I broke the top out of a set of stock cases running a cheap ModQuad Case Saver and if you go to eBay now there's no less than 50 sets of Banshee Cases with Chain Whack. IMO Cotton Branch Racing's Case Saver is worth every penny ($140 + Shipping) a damaged set of Cases, busted transmission, or a busted set of cylinders will cost you a lot more than that in money and aggravation. Cotton Branch Racing is easy to deal with, quick to respond to any questions, and his shipping speed is second to none! I highly recommend his Case Saver and any other products he has available on the Sport Quad/ATV Performance Aftermarket.

I didn't realize that any company made any replacement parts for the YFZR frame that improved the geometry, I know the YFZR frame is bolted together which allows a rider that runs XC races or does some other extreeme form of racing where a wreck could take place and damage the frame. This allows you to replace a specific part of the frame VS replacing the whole frame. If I still ran the occasional hare scramble race like I've done in the past I would look into building a extruded aluminum frame that bolted together, but I've gotten to old for that now. I mostly just ride and play on this Banshee with a bunch of my buddy's that ride 4-Strokes. I appreciate you letting me know that, I'd like to know exactly what changes they made for improvement.

Yes the a-arms placement and the steering stem angle have been moved accordingly to match the YFZR in the rendering I pasted to opening thread. A aftermarket modded YFZR steering stem needs to be used with the frame I designed. The YFZR stem needs to extended 2.5" in order to work out right.

If I can get this hybrid frame I plan on running YFZ-450X Fox Float Evol-X Front Shocks, a aftermarket Banshee Long Travel Rear Shock Linkage, and a Fox Podium Rear Shock with dual rate springs.

I hope that helps clear things up. It's not the OE YFZR suspension components I'm wanting its the YFZR's frame and suspension geometry and layout.

The Stock 450R and X Shocks are great shocks are far as OEM shocks go but their no where near as good as a Fox Float Evol-X/Podium or Elka Setup. The pro's use aftermarket shocks because they out perform the shocks the quads come equipped with from the factory, there's no doubt about that. When I said the 450R was the elite I was referring to the YFZ-450R's Frame and Suspension Geometry and Design, not the YFZR's factory suspension components themselves. IMO the R or the X Shocks perform great on the Banshee that has a stock unmodified frame, I think they work just as well if not better than some (NOT ALL) aftermarket Banshee Shocks because the Banshee's ride and handling is restricted by its old, out dated, heavy frame that that has bad geometry. After the Banshee's poor frame geometry is addressed and altered it opens up a whole new world of upgraded aftermarket shock possibilities that have many advantages over the the stock OEM 450R and X Shocks. Look at it this way I have a Z28 Camaro and a Z06 Corvette, I love my Z28 and its fun to drive but it won't handle perform as well as a Z06 regardless of how much money I spend or the amount of upgrades I do to the suspension. GM spent millions of dollars making the Z06 as light as possible and keep the rear tires planted under hard acceleration. Can you upgrade and make the Z06 suspension perform better than it does in stock form? Sure, but the only way I'll ever make the Z28 Camaro handle as good as a Z06 Corvette is to transplant the Camaro body over onto the Corvette chassis. The amount of money GM invested in the four wheel independent suspension through R&D will never be matched by the traditional straight axle GM uses on the Camaro. The same comparison can be made between the Banshee and the 2009+ YFZ-450R.

When the 450cc race quads started to hit the dealerships in 2004 all the manufactures claimed their 450 was a true "race ready" sport quad that could be bought off the dealerships show room floor and raced, our test riders quickly found that those claims were far from the truth on all four 450cc race quads. Until Yamaha released the YFZ-450R in 2009 the LTR450 was the only production sport quad produced by the four big manufactures that we considered to be anywhere near a "race ready" machine avalable on the market for MX racers. With Yamaha's introduction of long travel YFZ-450R and their complete performance line of Genuine Yamaha Technology Racing "GYTR" products that include a Plug'n Play Programmer, CNC Ported GYTR Head, High Compression Forged Piston, Webcam & upgraded Spring Kit, Full Exhaust System, High Flow Air Filter, as well as a huge selection of external chassis and body upgrades like Nerfbars, Chain, Sprockets, Full Body Skid Plates, Bumpers, Grab Bars, ect. Yamaha's new YFZ-450R is the only sport quad/ATV in the 450cc four stroke class that the rider or racer can truly buy and excessorize at a dealership and back off the trailer as a true competitor. We hope that we see the other three 450cc sport quad manufactures follow Yamaha's lead with model upgrades and improvements and a full line of optional factory engine performance upgrades that can be installed at the dealership without voiding any factory warranty. That was a article caption that was written about the 450cc Sport Quad's after Yamaha released the 450R and X and the writer in the article above made this statement...... "For all of us that have been waiting for long-travel straight from the factory, here it is!" If the LTR-450 was equipped with "Long Travel" Suspension in 2006 why does every write up and article on the YFZ-450R boast that its the first 450cc quad produced that can actually be concidered "race ready" with true front and rear long travel suspension from the factory? I don't want to continue to talk shit and argue over stuff that has nothing to do with the topic at hand. I think a Banshee frame that utilizes the Yamaha's newest elite race quad front suspension and frame geometry will adhere to style of riding and racing better than any aftermarket or custom frame that's been made available for the Banshee so far. I've rode the R and the X and although I wasn't impressed or enthused by the four stroke power plant the new 450's ride and handling capabilities were far suppiorior to any other sport quad I've ever riden. Yamaha invested 3.5 times more money on the research and development of the YFZR than they did on all the other 2009 Yamaha ATV models in their line up combined, I don't see how me utilizing the money and time they invested to develop the R and X make me clueless? Would it make more since to you to if I based the frame geometry off some other older less advanced quad or tried to come up with my own frame geometry based off theories and untested unproven ideas and designs? From here on out I'm refusing to acknowledge or reply to any of your useless unneeded replys that you throw out there in a attempt to get others to jump on the bashing wagon with you or with hopes you can derail my thread. If your making a legitimate point or offering up some sort of valid or useful input I will respond. I'm going to ignore all other attempts made to start shit or discredit me in any way.

I was wanting to go with a +4 to +6 Heavy Duty Arched Latter Swingarm on this new build because I was thinking I would need it to keep the rear tires planted and the nose down. ^^ This is the type of constructive criticism and input I was hoping I'd get when I decided to post this thread. My Banshee is a trail quad and a recreational racer and rider, so a +6 might be to much for the woods. With my MTF YFZX Hybrid Suspension I'm running now my front suspension geometry (NOT FRAME GEOMETRY" is matched to a 2011 YFZ-450X, believe it or not the upper front shock mounting bracket is placed at the same exact height in both frames. My currant suspension and stock frame uses 2011 YFZ-450X Foot Pegs, Shocks, Aluminum Spindles, Hubs, Twin Piston Brakes, Steering Stem Flag, ect my front end measures out 47" from outside to outside, and I run a +3 MTF Oval Tube Heavy Duty XC Roundhouse Swingarm. With the YFZX front Suspension Components and the MTF Custom A-Arms my Banshee has a tighter turning radius than it did in stock form even with the +3 Swingarm. I was thinking if I went with a +6 Swingarm I'd still have a tight turning radius do to YFZR/X geometry. I have found a longer wider quad handles and rides better than a shorter narrower quad to a extent. After reading your post I think your right. A +4 Arched Latter would be as long as I'd want to go for the type of riding I do and be a lot better jumper.

[quote name="ZillaFreak" post=" The lt450r has a dry weight of 468lbs, yfzr450 is 405wet. So how is the lt heavy? By the time you add the 2.6 gallons of fuel, 2qts of oil, and a half gallon of coolant to the dry weight you can add about 30 pounds to the 468lb LTR-450 its pushing close to 500lbs wet. YFZR = 405 wet, LTR = 500lbs wet. Since when is a extra 95-100lbs no big deal? A 500lb Sport Quad is a tank.

The guy that's building the exhaust has ask me not to advertise it because he doesn't want to be bombarded with emails and phone calls, so that's one thing I have to keep a secret because he has ask me to. The Engine Builder and the Pipe Builder have been working together to match the motor and the custom big bore exhaust from the beginning and I feel like the pipes will be one of the major components that sets my build apart from the other 535 Cheetah's that have been built. That 10 mil DM sounds like a nasty motor and your hp and tq numbers are very impressive. After the motor is complete and I get it tuned in and broke in I'll post a acetate build sheet and dyno chart. As far as Nick is concerned I'm ignoring him, he try's his damnedest to derail every thread with some sort of bull shit.

Okay Sprinkler. I want you guys to remember I'm a trail rider and my Banshee is my recreational rider and race quad. This quad is not a "drag quad" I don't dune or hill shoot either. I just wanted a good fast reliable Banshee that rides and handles good that I can play on and obliterate the 4-Stroke's I ride with in the river bottoms. Everything in/on the motor is the best stuff available and a lot of the components I went with you guys will consider to be over kill but I spent that additional money to insure maximum performance, ridability, and reliability. I decided to keep the stock cases do to the additional weight (20lbs) they add to total weight of the quad. If the stock cases don't hold up for some reason I'll buy a set of trenched Mattoon Billet Cases and transplant everything over on to them but I don't expect to have any issues. I'm having a 535cc (64mm X 73mm) Aggressive Trail Ported Power Valve Cheetah built on a set of upgraded/modified and powder coated stock cases. This motor is setup for a 100LL 32:1 Pre-Mix and the exhaust is custom set of custom made Big Bore In-Frame Pipes made/matched to my motor specifically and my riding style. It will be fed by two New 38mm Keihin PWK Air Striker Carburetors w/ the Intelajet Fuel Induction System & Chariot Oversize Billet Fuel Bowls. I will be tuning this motor based off the RPMs and EGTs. Before you guys even ask, Trinity has absolutely nothing to do with building this motor.

That EPA admissions talk was a excuse for poor sales. Are you going to tell me Suzuki couldn't work with their tuning and exhaust system on a fuel injected sport quad and make it meet admission laws that the Chinese ATV Manufactures meet with a carbureted 107cc 4-Stroke motor thats based off a Honda motor designed in the early 80's? I think not, you could still by a 2010 LTR-450 off the dealer floor in 2012 and most of 2014. Suzuki didn't try to fix their admission issues because their quads weren't selling.

A 12V Fan would great thing to have on a Banshee. Any true trail rider or XC racer will tell over heating is a a big issue with the Banshee. I had DK Goodrich put a wide band on my stock cylinder motor and and help me tune it and I still over heated the motor, blew the coolant out, fried the rings, and seized a piston trying to finish a amateur C class hare scramble in Tennessee. I had every cooling upgrade/mod available for the Banshee (Cool Head, Silicone Hoses, Oversize Aluminum Radiator, High Pressure Radiator Cap, In-Line Coolers, Billet Impeller, Billet Water Pump Gear, ATV Engine Ice w/Additive, and TWO2COOL RTL-2 in the Transmission). After I built the 392cc Trail Ported Serval the hottest I've ever seen it get is 187 degrees, but IMO a 12V Radiator Fan option would be a great thing to have for trail and XC situations. If your modding a Frame or building a custom frame why not take that little bit of extra time to make the room needed for a 12V fan? The motor I'm having built in a recreational race/trail/play motor that runs off a 32:1 100LL Pre-Mix and it should produce 120-125hp and 65-70ft/lb according to the engine builder that's also a BHQ site sponsor. The only reason I'm not giving all the details on it and the builder is because of members like Zilla that don't have much more than a stock ported motor and a set of 1980's Works Shocks that run their mouth and talk shit about everything associated with me. Tyler I don't care to give you all the details, I've already told Speinklerman on a PM. I just don't want a shit storm of shit talking to take place and generate negative publicity for the guy that's building my motor simply because some members want to run me into the ground.

I'm talking about "True Long Travel Front/Rear Suspension" you jack ass! Any ATV Manufacture can claim they are selling a "race ready" sport quad out of the box, but its only a claim. The LTR-450 has decent suspension geometry but it was and still is the heaviest 450 sport quad ever built. The Austrian made KTM was a JOKE, the 450cc four stroke was a ticking time bomb that was weak in comparison to it Japanese competitors. If the KTM-450SX and the Suzuki LTR-450 were so good out of the box why can't I buy 2014 model of the show room floor today? Suzuki stopped production on the LTR-450 because Yamaha and Honda were selling five 450's to one LTR. The KTM 450SX was such a over priced disappointment with its inadequate 4-Stroke motor that has four plastic oil pumps KTM stopped importing them to the US and went back to the drawing board. I can't really say much about the Cannondale Sport Quad because I've never had any experanace or even seen one in the US, and I'm willing to bet you haven't either. It's up to you, if you want to keep this shit up and continue to be a key board thug I can post a web link to the 2009 YFZ-450R test article written by a independent party that confirms everything I said in my previous post and school you like I did with the specific metal thermal conductivity chart a few weeks ago, or..... You can shut your mouth and stop talking shit on every thread or post associated with me. Personally I would rather not derail this thread to talk about what 4-Stroke Quads were really "race ready" that proved it with racing success and unit sales VS false "race ready" claims that resulted in those particular models not being produced and sold in the United States today. Please don't comment on anything associated with me. I've yet to see a response that you've contributed that's been helpful. Until you bring your ass to Ky and beat my Banshee in any form of riding, racing, or even visual appearance, and we both know that's never going to happen! Keep your mouth shut and quit cyber stalking me.

Thank you M671054, I'll look into that. I have a machine shop that builds custom parts for me all the time. As expensive as it sounds like its going to be I think my best bet is to keep my eye out for a wrecked or blown up YFZR and buy it. Then buy a used Banshee frame that's in good shape and send them both to Qualex and have them mod and gusset the stock Banshee frame. That way they can take their time and make it right and my Banshee won't be down. Then When it's finished and powder coated I can bolt the new arched latter swingarm and a-arms on it and transplant everything over.

I wish I had the skills and equipment required to make the modifications myself to a stock Banshee frame. I would work on it until I felt like it was perfect and I was getting all the best assets from both quads rolled into one hybrid frame, but I can't tig weld and I don't have all the equipment to do the job right and everything turn out perfect. I'm sure you know the YFZR has a short narrow frame with long a-arms and a longer swingarm. I'm not sure right off hand what the total length is on the YFZR aluminum frame without the program here in front of me but I feel pretty certain it was around 3" shorter than the Banshee Frame and the wheel bases is made up with a longer swingarm. Ideally, I would want the new hybrid frame to be the same length as the YFZR frame but that could pose a issue if a stock Banshee frame is used as the platform you start with. I'll need a YFZR frame in hand before anybody will be able to do anything. Thanks for your input and suggestions.

Ride.Race.Live I'm sure you've seen Banshee's with the Maier Custom "Raptor" Style Plastic, 99.999999% of all Banshee owners absolutely HATE that Plastic and the guys that run it and like it catch all kinds of hell. I don't know how many times I've heard people say they hate that plastic and a Banshee should look like a Banshee. The unique squared off front plastic and the radiator mounted high in the frame is one of the main reasons the Banshee is so well known today. Even people that wouldn't know a TRX250R from a TRX-450R can point a Banshee out in a large group of quads. I feel the same way about a Hybrid with a heart transplant as I do the Maier Raptor Style Plastic, they make since and they look good but its not a Banshee.

Like I said, I like the YFZ Hybrids and I'm sure they are one of the elite setups but I want a Banshee that has good frame and suspension geometry. The Banshee Hybrid Frame I drew up has 2009+YFZ-450R Frame/Suspension Geometry with 11 degrees of front rake. Yamaha's YFZR was the first out of the box "race ready" sport quad ever built that a professional rider could buy off the show room floor, tune the stock suspension to their liking, and actually be a threat to the competion. From what I understand Yamaha spent 5yrs developing and perfecting the 450R, their factory race team dirt bike motocross racers said it was the only quad they had ever riden that they could transition over to with ease. The R has a lot more technology, time, and expense invested in its design than its predecessor the 2004-2008 YFZ450. The Outlaw Frames are nice and they are a big improvent over a stock unmodified Banshee frame but they use the technology and geometry that Honda developed for the 250R 30yrs ago. Not to mention your married to LSR on A-Arms, Swingarms, and other components. This Banshee/YFZ-450R Hybrid Frame that I designed also has the clearance thats needed to mount a 7" 12V Thinline Radiator Fan between the Steering Stem and a Oversize Aluminum Radiator. This feature alone solves one of the biggest issues assosiated with the Banshee, the infamous over heating issue! Not to mention it has all the newest technology available to the ATV Racing World and its completely upgradable, any stock or aftermarket YFZR A-Arms, Shocks, Steering Stem, Hubs, Spindles, Brakes, ect will bolt right on it. If Walsh or Roll Design come out with a new set of A-Arms or Fox develops a new Float Shock you can upgrade if you choose to, your never married to one aftermarket suspension or shock company. The YFZR has 11.0" of rear suspension travel. With Elka's Banshee Long Travel Linkage and the right dual rate Elka or Fox Podium Rear Shock you can bump the Banshee's rear suspension travel from 8.7" to 11.5", which in turn matches the Hybrid Frame's front and rear suspension travel and allows it to work together like the Yamaha research and development team designed it to on the 450R. I opted to keep the Banshee rear suspension setup because I wasn't aware of any other sport quad that had as many different swingarm configurations that are available for the Banshee. You can buy any style roundhouse swingarm in any length you want, from 25+ different suspension builders, and its capible of producing the rear travel needed to match the YFZR's Front Travel. By going back with the Banshee Rear Desighn every single factory component even the air box/lid can still be used if the rider chooses to do so. Last but not least a Banshee thats using this Hybrid YFZR/Banshee Frame constructed out of chromoly steel with a 10pc gusset kit, and powder coated will be stronger and it reduce the total wet weight of the bike in full trim by 18-21lbs. Other than the time and money that would need to be invested in order to build this frame correctly I don't see a down side to it, and I for sure don't think I'm readventing the wheel. Nobody sells a production aftermarket frame that addresses all these issues and offers the advantages that this chassis offers. You can do a heart transplant and create a YFZ Hybrid but its not a Banshee.

Damn Tyler! $3,000 won't even get a sand blasted Banshee frame and a stock YFZR Sub-Frame modified? What peice range would something like that be? I don't want to do a heart transplant on a YFZR because I want to keep the terditional Banshee look. It's not that I don't think the Hybrids are bad ass because a lot of them I see are. If its going to cost more than $3,000 just to mod the Banshee frame and a YFZR Sub-Frame I guess I'll hold off until I find a YFZR aluminum frame, a spare Banshee frame and a YFZ-450R sub-frame and send everything to my buddy's at Qualex and let them mod the Banshee frame to match the YFZ's geometry, gusset the weak points, and mod the aluminum sub. It might take them a while but they can do it and make it right. I just hate to wait until I find a aluminum YFZ frame for them to go off of.

I don't get why you guys say I'm readventing the wheel? The stock Banshee frame is heavy and the front suspension geometry is far from ideal for somebody that MX races or XC races. I'm trying to bring the suspension and frame geometry up to date with the new factory produced race quads without giving up all the things that make the Banshee what it is today. Compared to most of the 4-Strokes I ride with my Banshee feels heavy even though the total wet weights aren't to far off. The Streamline Steering Stablizer I run doesn't help matters either but its useful in the woods.

I was budgeting around $2,500-$3,000 for a bare frame and modified YFZR Sub-Frame. Why am I way off?

Okay, who do you recommend on modding a stock frame?

Your probably right Tyler. I wanted to go that rout because aftermarket YFZR and Banshee parts are readily available and easy to upgrade down the road. I see your point, maybe I can get somebody to mod a stock frame for me.