Thack82

Okay guys, I need your help. I'm looking for a custom frame/chassis builder that will build me a strong, lightweight, gusseted, long travel, chromoly Banshee Frame that I designed on a old Auto CAD Program I had back when I was in college for a recreational race/play/trail Banshee. I called, emailed, and talked to Tim at Stellar and the guys at Viking Powersport's and both say its to much for them to take on because they would need a Banshee and a 2009+ Yamaha YFZ-450R/X present to get measurements off of as they go to insure the geometry is correct. This Banshee/YFZ-450R Hybrid Frame accommodates stock or after market 2009+ YFZ-450R A-Arms, Shocks, Spindles, Hubs, Front Brakes, Steering Stem/Flag, Foot Pegs, Front Bumper, Aluminum Sub-Frame, and Rear Grab Bar and it uses stock or aftermarket Yamaha Banshee Motor, Radiator, Plastic, Heel Guards, Gas Tank, Seat, Air Box, Headlights, Rear Shock Linkage, Rear Shock, Swingarm, and Rear Brakes. I know what a lot of you guys are thinking.... Why not do a Banshee motor transplant on a YFZR Frame???? I like the way the Banshee looks, plus I'm having a big 500+ cc motor being built as we speak that should produce torque numbers in 70's at the rear tires and I'll need a +6 heavy duty arched latter swingarm to help keep the tires planted and the nose down. The Banshee has a assortment of different lengths and style swingarms available and the YFZR doesn't. I plan on running a Stellar Banshee +6 Heavy Duty Arched Latter Swingarm, Elka Banshee Long Travel Rear Shock Linkage, Dual Rate Fox Podium Rear Shock (11.5" Rear Travel), YFZR Fox Float Evol-X Front Shocks , YFZR Houser A-Arms, and a Houser +3 YFZR Steering Stem with this long travel frame and the total wet weight even with the +6 swingarm should be reduced somewhere between 18 to 21lbs if my math is correct. Please let me know if you know of a chassis or suspension build that might be able to help me out with this. Thanks

Actually both your statements are wrong, but think what you want. Is there a reason why your making derogatory remarks about what I do for a living, what does that have to do with anything anyway? Bull shit remarks like that is the reason I'm not giving any details on the the motor I'm building. People like you talk shit about everything.

Lol, my office isn't even anywhere near the processing plant. They do slaughter 500 hogs 5 days a week there though.

I'm not a Engineer. By trade I am considered a Environmental Tech or Consultant. I run the environmental department at Purnell Sausage Company in Simpsonville Ky. A lot of other small businesses contract me to get them out of trouble and back in compliance state/federal environmental laws to keep from paying fines and penalties. What makes you guys think I'm a engineer?

Did he go with 35's to keep the power snappy with good throttle response? I've always heard 8%-10% can be gained with race fuel over pump gas. If that was a 521 Super Serval 38mm Carbs would have matched that motor a lot better. He wouldn't have seen any significant change in the bottom end and throttle response and the motor would climb a lot harder past 60%. I'm running new 38mm PWK Air Strikers with Chariot's Oversize Billet Fuel Bowls and the Intelajet Fuel Induction System on the new motor. I've got custom made set of chrome big bore in-frames being custom built that are matched perfectly to the port work and displacement. I had this motor setup for 100LL because its clean, consistent, cheap ($4.27 per gal), and easy to get. It won't be the baddest motor out there by any means but it will produce as much power as efficiently as possible for a big play bike.

I'm not building a Serval for that reason. The Big Serval's 10 mil and up don't make the power that they should. Sprinkler's 421 Serval with a clean up port on Av-Gas made more power than the 10 mil Serval you and Cam tested the pipes on. IMO the standard Banshee Intakes are one of the main problems. I tried to get Calvin to cast me a big Serval with Big 6 Bolt Intakes and he wouldn't do it. I feel pretty confident this motor will hit somewhere close to the 130hp mark.

My currant Swingarm is a +3 Chromoly Oval Tube XC/Woods Swingarm. I'm hoping I can find somebody to make that custom Long Travel Frame I designed and a +6 Arched Latter Swingarm, but I need to find somebody to build it for me. The power delivery on the new motor is smooth and very broad, its not like I'lI be trying to trail ride and cruse on a big drag ported 610 Cub. I still feel like that frame and the +6 Arched Latter would make the bike a lot more comfortable and fun to ride. Any suggestions on somebody that makes custom frames like the one I'm wanting?

One of the main things I catch so much hell over is "over building" I use everything I've got, nothing is a garage queen or set up for limited use. When I build something I address every single possible weak point. The Steel Basket is a perfect example. I never need to worry about notching my basket. I add Klotz UPLON at 1oz per gallon to all the Av-Gas I buy regardless of 2/4 Stroke because I've had builders that use it tell me its dry. If 100LL has less lubricants than pump gas or race fuel then your oil ratio is off and your not actually running a 32:1 Pre-Mix. Even if it doesn't help I don't feel like it hurts anything. It's good to have extra insurance. With the amount of money I've got invested in this motor I can tell you it will be reliable. I'm running the best 530 X-Ring Chain/Forged Steel Sprockets you can buy. I had Crank Works custom Build me a Billet Crank with custom forged rods like the crank has in the picture bellow, I'm putting a billet 2nd gear in the trans, and I bought a upgraded heavy duty complete bearing/bushing kit out of Australia for the engine. If I do see a possible weak link and a upgrade is not available I have a multi million dollar machine shop that will fabricate anything I need at no cost to me. If there's one thing I know it's how to make a Banshee reliable. As long as the frame holds up I'll be okay.

Tyler said he had a DM Serval, I wasn't aware such a thing even existed. He told me CP custom cast his cylinders for him exclusively. IDK he could be fucking with me but nobody said anything so I took it as the truth.

Where is this Stock Swingarm shit coming from? I don't have a stock Swingarm a have a extended MTF Heavy Duty Swingarm.

What? I'm not building a Serval? I looked into them because I liked the little 392 I had but I wasn't about to spend 8 or 9 thousand dollars on a motor that was plagued with intake issues. If Tyler's telling me the truth his big DM Serval makes around 150 on the Dyno and Sprinkler's got a 421 Serval on Av-Gas with a clean up port and few good bolt on parts that's knocking on 100hp. So I'm sure 130hp on a 14 mil X 72mm Super Serval is possible. I'm not going to tell you guys exactly what I'm building because as soon as I do a bunch of guys will jump in and start calling it junk just because its mine. When you see it you'll know what it is I won't be able to hide it. I would love to discuss the build on a BHQ Thread and and get input and tell you guys all about it but a bunch will jump in and start dogging it and talk shit about every little component I'm using and start talking bad about my builder who is also a site sponsor so its not even worth it. Discussing it on here will bring negative publicity to a good builder and site sponsor and I don't want to do that. I've been a member for five years and I've never gotten one positive comment on my Banshee. I understand with the type of riding/racing I do some of the mods I've done don't make since to most of the other members, but I'm not doing the same thing with my Banshee. In my five years as a member I can't think of one negative remark that I've made about another members Banshee, and I don't agree with every mod I see others doing but I don't fire in on them. They are doing what they want to do to suit their riding style. I hate DWT Blue Label Wheels, I think they are the biggest waste of money and the junkiest wheel ever made because they would last 10 minutes where I ride, I'd have a tire tore completely off the rim. I think painting ATV plastic is one of the stupidest things anyone could ever do! the first time I pulled my bike in out of the woods with painted plastic to power wash it 80% of the paint would be gone! Just buy the color plastic you want and put a graphic kit on it..... But I don't bash the people that run those wheels and have painted plastic because I know their Banshee is strictly a drag/dune quad, they won't bend a wheel on a oak tree or cover their bike in mud so they don't worry about it because they like it and it works for them. If I even give my opinion or comment on something I have 20 guys firing on me at once. I got banned from the HQ Facebook Page because I said MAXXIS iRAZR's were a good XC and Trail Tire. Some guys even went so far as calling my 8yr old Daughter a whore and a slut and he's a site sponsor. If I tell you what I'm building their will be 25 pages of guys running me down.

After I saw the Dyno Chart on that 421 Serval on Av-Gas you built that sealed the deal for me on what kind of fuel I was running. The curve that motor made on the dyno was the best 421 Serval curve I've ever seen, and almost 100hp on a play/ rec quad is awesome. that is one bad ass Serval! I can get BP 100LL 24hrs a day 365 days a year at Frankfort Air Port. The last time I bought 10 gallon it was $4.27 per gallon. Of course I put 1oz per gallon (127:1) of Klotz UPLON Fuel Lubricant in it before I even add my mixing oil at 32:1. The Av-Gas doesn't have any lube in it and the guys that build motors than run it told me to add a high quality upper cylinder lubricant to it as a precaution.

Maybe. I always told you guys if I ever built a big motor I'd go billet. I just hate the fact that they weigh 20lbs more than the stock cases. I've got to have that LT Frame I designed built to counteract that weight. "IF" I had that frame I would only pick up 2lbs with the billet cases.

The custom made billet crank and rods was over $1,800.

What parts are you refuting to that I'll be running that's made for 30hp? Nothing but the frame, gas tank and a few parts in the transmission is OE factory.

I was looking at a big Serval but I've heard the bigger 10 mil + CP Super Series Cylinders are plagued with intake issues because they really need a bigger intake and reed setup to let them breath to their full potential. So I ended up going a different rout. I'll need a custom lightweight long travel frame and a +6 Arched Latter Swingarm before it will perform the way I want it to.

Your right on on the HP. Mid-high 130s is the number estimated by the builder on 100LL Av-Gas with a 32:1 Pre-Mix. I don't want to say 130's for sure. I'd rather play it safe and say somewhere in the 120's, but it will be somewhere in the 70's on tq. It's not a 20 mil DM. You guys know me better than that. I'm building a big play motor that makes decent hp and awesome tq so I can ride this thing all day without wrenching on it or worry about taring it up. As much money as I've spent it better be reliable and respectable wherever I ride it. It won't hang with the big drag bikes on here but it will be a strong runner and one of a kind for sure.

Like I said I know my Banshee isn't the speed demons you guys are used to seeing but I thought my old set up ran pretty damn good considering the motor was a short stroke 54mm X 68mm FAST Trail Ported Serval that I built in my garage by my self almost 4yrs ago. I out ran just about everything around in the area where I live, but that's not saying a lot because everybody rides mildly built 400's, 450's, and 700's. The few Banshee's that are around are stock with pipes and ragged out. This new big boy motor I'm having built should blow people's mind around here. I just wish I could find a chassis builder that would build the custom long travel frame I designed and a +5 Arched Latter Swingarm! I wonder if Stellar would take on that project? Anyway I've got a few more videos of my bike in 4-6" of snow last winter with a set of sand paddle I have. It looks so cool throwing up all that snow. The new motor I'm having build is capable of producing tq numbers in the mid 70's, so it should really be a blast this winter. I'll see if I can get them loaded up on You-Tube today.

You might have figured out why my bike chewed up aluminum baskets and no one else seems to have a issue. I had trouble keeping the clutches from slipping after they got hot in the woods so I had Lane at Driveline send me a stiff ass set of springs and the clutch pull was so stiff I had to go with a Hydraulic Lever to keep from getting arm pump fatigue in a Hare Scramble. It still didn't hold after it got hot so I went with a Driveline Stealth Lock-Up and had Withrow help me install it. He had never had any dealings with a Lock-Up because he's mainly a 4-Choke Dirt Bike rider. So we turned the bike up on its side and I read him the instructions, he loaded it with 2 balls per groove based of the instructions but he used the super stiff springs Driveline had sent me previously. Then during a race some time later the Lock-Up bolts backed out and a few fell out and shredded the outside of the Direct Drive Lock-Up Cover I had and beat the living shit out of my Lock-Up. Lucky for me the part of the cover that was screwed was replaceable so all I had to order was that piece and a new Lock-Up. I tuned the new lock-up myself. I used a 1 Ball/2 Ball alternation with 3 new OE Springs and 3 DL 15% HD Springs and staggered them so the DL spring was was close to the 1 Ball Groove and the new OE Spring was closest to the 2 Ball groove. The difference was night and day. As far as the bike bogging goes, I've never had a issue. It doesn't even bog with 22" Paddle Tires from a 2nd gear launch, it's always blew the tires off. With a old set of junk BTK AT111 20X11R9 I raced a 700 Raptor on pavement and my bike spun through the 60ft mark and left black marks on the pavement. I've never had a issue with it pulling big willies, even with the HiPer's and iRAZR's in tacky dirt my bike might pack the front tires 4-6" in 1st and 2nd but that's it. I attached a old picture I had of me racing a KOI 200ft Dirt Drag bellow. I was running paddle tires and that picture was taken at as I was crossing the 180ft marker, you can see the announcer/time tower that sets at the end of the track in the picture. I also attached a few You-Tube video links of me fine tuning the quad in a river bottom near my house and lugging up a steep traiI. Please keep in mind this was my Stock Stroke Trail Ported 392cc Serval that I built to play on in the woods and race a occasional "C" class hare scramble with. I'm sure it looks like slug compared to your guys big dune Banshee's but I felt like it ran very strong running concidering it has full body skids, frame guards, aluminum herl guards and all kinds of other stuff that adds weight, plus I weigh between 230-235lbs. In all four videos and the picture I'm running the the curant 8-Plate clutch setup including the steel basket, Stealth Lock-Up, and 16:41 Sprockets. Please listen to the autio, I think you guys see the steel basket doesn't seem to have a negative effect on the engine RPM's, it doesn't drag/bog the motor down what so ever. Let me know what you guys think.

I did have 6 stiff springs and 2 balls per groove when I junked those two baskets. I retuned my lock-up with a 1 ball/2 ball alternation with 3 new OEM springs and 3 Driveline 15% HD Springs when I added all the other shift mods, Hinson 8-Plate Inner Hub, and the steel basket. I run 10" HiPer's with 20" Rears and I've never had a bogging issue with the Serval. Maybe it was the 2 balls per groove and stiff driveline springs that caused my issues, I was only running 7-Plates on the other two baskets so the 8-Plate Clutch Kit didn't have anything to do with it. I have a year and a half of hard riding on the currant setup without a single issue. The transmission shifts a shit ton better for sure.

I'm looking for a picture of the Red Hard Anodized Barnett Clutch Basket I know I have some but their on a old cell phone I've got around here somewhere. I had the Barnett Basket previous to the Mattoon Basket. I will say it lasted a lot longer than than the Mattoon. I also wanted to make it clear that I didn't have the Aluminum Barnett Basket with the Steel Inserts, I bought a standard 7-Plate Barnett Clutch Dirt Digger Kit, Cushions, and Billet Basket new on sale off Amazon. I tried to get a replacement and the Amazon Store I bought it from gave me a contact email and told me I'd have to go through Barnett. I sent them pictures of the grooved basket and requested a replacement and the customer service representive told me their warranty only applied to damaged and flawed baskets that were unused, and the clutch Basket was a wear item. I replied and said I understood but I expected the clutch and basket to atleast last 3-5yrs and he replied and ask me if I possibly had a wore inner hub or a clutch dragging issue caused by a clutch lever/cable that was not adjusted properly. I told him my lever was a self adjusting Streamline Hydraulic Lever and my inner hub was the OEM Hub but it wasn't bad enough to allow the plates to smack the basket hard enough to wear it out in less than two years. He simply told me he was sorry I had issues but he couldn't help me. So then I ordered Mattoon's Extreeme Heavy Duty 8-Plate Billet Aluminum Basket that came with Hinson Cushions, and a Steel Backing Plate, and I ordered a Driveline Trail/Track HD Clutch Kit thinking the "Extreme Heavy Duty" ment it was a durable billet basket. It was junk in less than 16hrs of ride time to the point I broke a fiber plate. I got a rash of shit from from Keith too, but he did tell me if I would return it he would look at it and if he felt the basket failed and it wasn't associated with any other problem related to the quad itself he would replace it. At that point I started doing research on Steel Baskets and read the positve feed back and results of the aditional weight so I had my basket machined out of 41/40 Steel. I looked at the Barnet Baskets with the steel inserts and I felt like the pins could eventually wear the holes in the basket and cause the inserts to fall out in time and mess other stuff and I was pissed at Barnett for not at least selling me a new basket at discounted/reduced cost. If I had been worried about the additional weight robbing power even after I had my Steel Basket made The guys at Qualex would have machined me a new one out of titanium for free, but some additional basket weight does offer a real advantage for a woods quad without limiting RPM's like additional flywheel weight does. I'll post pictures of both the Billet Aluminum Baskets and the Stock Inner Hub as soon as I find my old phone and get it charged up.

Like I said, Hinson has the right idea. They just don't make the steel unit for the Banshee.

I agree Cam, some additional material could be removed for lighter weight. My 41/40 Steel Basket (bottom) is not as heavy as the Withrow Steel Basket, additional material was removed on mine for balancing and to lighten it up. The Total weight on the Mattoon Basket is 1.9lbs if I remember correctly and my Steel Basket weighs 2.7lbs. I'm not 100% sure but I'm thinking the Withrow Basket weighs between 3.4 and 3.6lbs. After I notched up two aftermarket aluminum clutch baskets (Barnett and Mattoon) in less than 18 months I started doing some research and decided to get the machine shop that sponsored me as a C class XC racer to machine me a steel basket. I also put Straight Cut Primary Drive Gears, all the shifting mods/upgrades, as well as all new clutch components in my motor when I installed the steel basket to be sure I wasn't covering up some other underlying issue. So I was the first Banshee owner to use a Steel Basket on my 392cc Trail Ported Serval. I trail ride with Matt Withrow and he helped me set up my Banshee from time to time for races. So he helped me instal/test the steel basket and other clutch components and we tuned the DL Stealth Lock-Up. When we noticed the additional weight didn't effect the performance negatively at all and actually beneficial in many situations he told me that I might be onto something and ask me if he could take my old Mattoon Basket and make his own test run of Steel Banshee Clutch Baskets. I told him to have at it and a few weeks latter the Withrow Steel Basket was born. He didn't take the time to remove all the additional unneeded material or balance the baskets like the guys at Qualex did for me. The Withrow Steel Basket is a exact Steel Replica if the Mattoon Basket. He only machined 5 baskets total and one of them (the 1st one he made) was flawed. I think he has 2 more left, after they sell the Withrow Steel Baskets are done. There's not many hard core Banshee trail riders out there and with all the negativity and speculation associated with the weight topic there wasn't a demand for them. IMO the ultimate Banshee Clutch Setup would be Hinson's Hard Anodized Steel Basket, but they don't make one for the Banshee. They could even offer a steel version of the spring-loaded basket/clutch kit that comes with the Straight Cut Primary Drive Gears. Anyway check my Steel Basket out and see what you think about it.

I didn't have any credibility to begin with.

I've never talked about anybody's bike negatively other than Zilla's and that's only because he has dogged me and my bike so bad for so long. I've seen the Dyno numbers that Serval put down on 100LL Av-Gas and it was very impressive and I'm sure your 4 mil Cub is a beast!