Thack82

I've made two different styles and tested both. The first set I made I bought a set of OEM mounts off eBay that were chrome plated, had them cryroed, and ordered a set of polyurethane bushings from Helm. They worked very well but the Helm Bushing's didn't have the vibration dampening properties I was looking for for my particular setup because the compound harder than I would have liked. So I gave that set to a buddy of mine on Facebook and I completely reengineered the entire mount from the ground up. I've actually got a extra set of the upgraded lower dog bone mounts that I built if your still looking for a set Tedder. The mounts I designed and built are made from hardened stainless and they use a self lubricating Energy Suspension Polyurethane Bushing's that have the correct compound shore rating for these applications. I put in the time when I engineered this set of upgraded mounts. Let me know if your interested. Thanks, Jim

I'm posting this for future Banshee Owner's looking for information on this topic and wanting to upgrade the OEM Banshee Foot Peg's using the Stock YFZ-450R/X Race Peg's. Answer: Yes, the 2009+ YFZR-450R/X Pegs will fit the Banshee with very minimal modification. You need to cut or grind a spacer off the back of the peg on the PTO (Clutch) slide. Then you need to take a small carbide bit and slot all four holes 3mm on the YFZR/X Peg's and that's it...... Other than one fine thread foot peg bolt that is a little longer. I pasted a tool list thats required to complete the foot peg swap successfully bellow: - Take Off YFZ-450R/X Racing Foot Pegs. - Four Inch Grinder w/ 80g Sanding Wheel. - One Longer Foot Peg Bolt For Right Side Peg. - Pneumatic Die Grinder w/ Small Carbide Porting Bit. - 15mm Open Box End Wrench - Can Of Brake Cleaner & Anti-Sieze for the foot peg mounting hardware.

Sounds like you guys have it all figured out, but not one single person has mentioned or addressed the obvious issue with the with the YFZ/YFZR's symmetrical cradle geometry when the Banshee motor is mounted in the frame offset, Yamaha engineered the Banshee's odd shaped cradle geometry for a reason. With the YFZ symmetrical cradle geometry will be starting out out of balance right from the get go which causes rider fatigue and roll overs. I would think your fearless leader would have figured this out by now, he lands on the left tires and rolls his bike half the passes he makes up a staircase. I wouldn't put a whole lot of faith in Zilla says either when it comes to anything Quad related. How's his Throttle Body EFI Conversion Kit doing these days? Lol. I've always looked at things like this.... Take a step back and look at what's been accomplished by the person your getting advice from and what they have. That fat slob had a stock stroke stock cylinder Banshee with a mono-pipe, a mono carb, and a old set of 14" long hand me down Works Shock's from the late 80's or early 90's and he parted his junk out about a year and a half ago. He doesn't even own a Banshee now. Lol, he's a joke but he fits in perfect with Bennett and all the idiots and misfits that make up this forum. Anyway, I've wasted enough time here reading the stupid replies that are infested with bad inaccurate information and low intelligence responses. Don't bother twisting up what I've said in this reply in a attempt to troll me back in. I'll check back in in a year or so and see how much progress everybody has made when I need to kill some time.

Well said ETR714.

I'm not getting into this shit with you and your band wagon followers that want to start shit with me for no reason and jump on me because you can't read or don't take the time to read what I wrote in its entirety. I've said what I wanted to say in this thread and I ask the questions that I wanted to ask. So don't count on me responding to any of your reply's to me or reply's that your directing towards me, so you'll need to find somebody else to moon walk with little man. Have a nice night guys.

Can you read? I hope for your sake you're just playing stupid to in a attempt to piss me off. Lol, same old illiterate Tyler thats mad at the world because he's 4ft tall and 125lbs. (known as short man syndrome) They should put a picture of you right beside the definition, it fits you perfect. Definition Of Short Man Syndrome - Urban Dictionary An angry male of below average height who feels it necessary to act out in an attempt to gain respect and recognition from others and compensate for his abnormally short stature. Also synonomous to little man syndrome. If you would read what I wrote rather than run your mouth you would see what I have stated more than once. I pasted it bellow so you wouldn't have to go back and look it up. Go get somebody to read it to you if you can't sound it out. "I said I felt like the design of the PT's "attributed" to some of my over heating issues. Which means they didn't help matters any." "After the Serval I never did have any issues with overheating even with the PT Mids, but my engine temps did run on average about 5° cooler with the R2's than it did with the PT Mid's" Just encase you still didn't get it I'll say it again, my Stock Cylinder Woods Motor did have over heating issues. When I did some testing using different pipe setups on the same motor the PT Mid's caused the engine to run on average 5° hotter than it did with the R2 Pipes.

My Stock Cylinders did over heat if I ran it hard for long period's of time in the woods, it would start blowing engine ice out the over flow and if I continued to run it I would fry the rings. I did that a time or two running hare scrambles, the last time I ran it hot and tried to make it through a KORHS Race with the stock cylinders the top end seized. I had every cooling mod/upgrade that I know of on my bike with the stock cylinders and it still wouldn't make it a entire 2hr race if it was even remotely hot out side. Maybe I had some other type of failure or problem that was causing the overheating issue with the stock crank and cylinders, I don't know for sure. When I replaced the rotaing assimbly and stock .020 bored cylinders with a Hot Rod's Stock Stroke Billet Crank, Wiseco Pro-Lite Cub Pistons, and the trail ported Serval top end I never lost another drop of coolant do to overheating. I never ran anything but PT's on and stock pipes with my stock cylinder stock stroke motor. After the Serval I never did have any issues with overheating even with the PT Mids, but my engine temps did run on average about 5° cooler with the R2's than it did with the PT Mid's. The hottest I've ever saw my old 392cc Serval get was around 196° and that was with the PT's in July with a ambient temperature in the low/mid 90's. Most of the time it stayed in the 175-185° range.

The Serval's bottom end is not effected by pipes or bigger carbs as dramatically as the stock cylinders or other cylinder set ups with higher port timings. I know its hard to believe but the power came on at almost the same RPM with R2's on my old Serval that it did with the PT Mid's. That statement might not be true for every setup but it was on mine. I think the actual lugging power at very low RPM's well bellow the power band was actually better with the R2's. With 15/41 gearing I could lug up steep hills almost like a 4-Stroke without being anywhere near the power band. Watch the video I attached bellow: I'm not saying the PT's suck on every motor or application but I didn't like them on my old 392cc Serval.

I never had any over heating issues after I built the Serval, but when I was running the KORHS Hare Scrambles on my Banshee with the stock cylinders I couldn't keep it cool through out a entire 2hr woods race. I run a Trail Tech and had a aluminum bung welded in the back of my Radiator and installed the temp sensor probe probe in that bung. Then on the hose that exits the water pump I run a Billet Inline cooler with a gauge. This allows me to calculate my cooling system efficiency and heat reduction. I have it wrote down somewhere but my average operating temperatures stayed a average of 4-6°F cooler with the R2's VS the PT Mid's with no other changes. I know my jetting was correct with both sets of pipes because I had DK Goodrich at EFI Tuning Solutions help me fine tune my bike on his dyno using a wide band. I know thats not a huge difference but if your skating on the line of overheating and blowing coolant out the over flow hose during a 2hr Hare Scramble even a 5°F reduction in engine operating temperatures helps.

I said I felt like the design of the PT's "attributed" to some of my over heating issues. Which means they didn't help matters any. Any Pipe or engine builder will tell you the way a pipe is designed will effect the amount of heat they are capable of pulling from the cylinders which directly effects your engine operating temperatures. I talked to Curtis Duncan a few different times on the phone about the PT Mid's and PT High Rev's when I had them on my trail ported 392cc Serval and he told me himself there were better pipe choices available for the 68mm+ CP Cylinders, and the PT Mid's and High Revs were both developed for 349cc-385cc engines. He didn't say they wouldn't work he said there were better choices for the CP Cylinders. I never comment or say anything derogatory about performance parts/components unless I've had direct experience dealing with them. The quality of the Paul Turner Pipes was outstanding but I didn't like them on my Banshee. When I went with a different set of pipes it was night and day difference, I didn't loose any bottom end or throttle response and what I gained in the mid/top was huge. My bike even ran better when I went up to a set of 32mm Mikuni TM's with the new pipes over the 28mm Keihin PWK's and I had tried a set of 33mm Keihins a few years before with the PT Mid's and I didn't like them. If you like the PT's thats great, every motor and in particular setup performs different with a different combination of performance components, but in my opinion the PT's are far from the elite in-frame pipes.

I figured he had at least made one set of generic prototypes to show potential customers. I would want to have a idea of what they would look like before I paid to have a set made. In order to truly know how a set of pipes will perform they need to be tested. A good computer program will do a lot and get a builder close but small areas will need to be tweaked. A new set of custom pipes will always need minor changes after dyno and real life testing is done. Thats why I was assuming he could post up a few pictures.

I don't want any trouble, I only replied to the thread because I was interested in the new GRR Pipes. I was curious about how they were made what they looked like.

I agree with you on the PT Mid's Cam, they do suck! I ran a set for a long time, I think the way the PT Expansion Chamber is twisted and the stinger tube section they have thats twice as long as every other set of pipes that are built for the Banshee prevent them from pulling heat from the cylinders. I attribute a lot of the over heating issues I had when I ran stock cylinders to the Paul Turner Pipes. The power flattens off real fast with them as well. When I ran them on a trail ported 392cc Serval I ended up running 16/41 gearing so I wouldn't get my ass handed to me in a open field. I have tried a few different pipes that performed down low and made tq like the PT Mid's did that also pulled hard in the mid/top range. I would put the PT Mid's in the same category that I put the Mono-Pipes.

I agree with Gusto Andy, lets see some pictures of both new versions of your inframes. I'm assuming your hydro foaming these new pipes? I personally prefer hydro foamed custom pipes over custom built hand coned/ring pipes in both looks and performance. I've read that the tig welds on the Hand Coned Pipes cause a interruption or break in sound waves that carry the unused fuel/air charge that escapes from the exhaust ports back into the combustion chamber. It makes since, but a lot of guys get great performance out of the ring pipes but I would choose a set of hydro-foamed pipes every time if I had the choice between the two.

First of all the mess of shit I wrote was what the other members were inquiring about and wanting to know, that was information that was that was given to me directly from the pipe builder himself. If I go to any random post on this forum is 100% of the information accurate? Does Tyler go through and erase the shit that he deems inaccurate? I don't think so, 40% of the shit you read on this forum is wrong, 50% is personal opinions, speculations, and preferences, and the other 10% is useful valuable information. Digging through all the useless bull shit, speculations, preferences, and opinions to get to that useful 10% that is actually good accurate information is just part of the public forum game. Anybody that is capable of starting and riding a Banshee knows that. So don't act like everything stated in each one of these threads is just as legit and true as if it had been read and stated straight from a Clymer Service/Rebuild Manual. Anybody that is capable of reading knows they will have to read through a thread and then decide for themselves who they believe and who advice to take. I stated many "facts" on multiple BHQ Threads just to have another member like yourself jump in and attempt to discredit what I've said based on speculation only. The Steel Clutch Basket Thread I weighed in on a few months back is a prime example, another member that raced A & B Class Hare Scrambles and held a top 5 position in the points standings actually bought one of them and started a Product Review Thread. Everything went smoothly until he backed up what I had been saying. Then all of a sudden he was dumb ass that didn't have a clue what he was talking about! I misspoke on the pipe testing data that Cam collected and you misspoke when when you stated that I was working with a professional pipe builder to design a new pipe. So your not one damn bit better than I am when it comes to spreading inaccurate information. So what gives you the right to throw stones at me? I didn't know the testing had been duplicated using a 421cc Cub, have you read and memorized every single thread thats been posted on this forum...... No, I bet you haven't. So don't act like your the know all see all expert when it comes to the Banshee because your not, your are far from it. I really don't know what my education, credentials, or chosen profession have to do with any of this so I won't comment on that.

Oh, okay that makes a lot of since. Because I'm having a pipe builder build a set of pipes that are matched to a motor that I'm having built I'm helping him develop them, is that really what you believe or did you type that before you actually thought it threw?

When did I say I was working with a pipe builder to develop a new state of the art pipe??? I never said anything even remotely close to that, and Ispew the shit out like its straight out of the bible? Maybe you should do do some research on this five page thread and show me where I made that statement. 95% of the time its members like you that twist shit up and throw it out there to get other members on board with your saying, knowing they wont read back through the thread and read what was actually said. Not one of my "books" or post on this topic is any longer than that bull shit you just posted.

Okay, now I see where I was screwed up. I was referring to different pipe test that was done on a 10 mil Serval. I don't get on here a lot and I have a hard time keeping up with everything that goes on since you banned me from the Facebook Group. I wasn't even aware Red Line did any testing on the smaller 421 Cubs. I appreciate you setting me straight on details of the pipe testing that I wasn't aware of. I admitted I misspoke and I shouldn't have referred to the pipe test as "Manipulated" in my previous post, there's not a whole lot more I can do. I won't let my pride stand in the way of me admitting I was wrong about something, there's no shame in that. I really hope you don't treat people in real life like you do on here, I've always tried to be civil with you when you fly off the end of the hammer and go ape shit on me but it doesn't do any good because you want me argue back and fourth with you so you can continue the never ending name calling and insults. My intentions have always been good, I've only tried to help other members, share my input/findings on the problems & components that I've had direct experience dealing with, and contribute to the forum. I have never purposely tried to mislead, start rumors, or spread misinformation to anybody on this forum or any other that I'm a member of. I'm sure at some point in time even the great Tyler Clark has posted something you thought was right and found out later you were wrong, if you say you haven't your lying. Did another member repeatedly call you a stupid fucking idiot that was dumb as fuck? If I had to guess I'd say no...... Your point was made in your second reply. After you filled me in specifics of the Red Line Pipe testing I admitted I misspoke and apologized, and you continue to run me down and call me names. It would be okay with me if you cut me a little slack, but by all means continue calling me a stupid fucking idiot that is dumb as fuck if need be.

Damn Tyler, calm down.... Okay, so I was wrong about the Shearer Pipes that was tested being big bore versions. I'm going off memory from a post I read off Facebook over a year and a half ago when Cam tested the 10 mil Super Serval. Cam even stated the results could have been more accurate if tuning had done for each set of pipes specifically, and the testing I was referring to was done with what is considered a "big bore" motor (over 500cc) with small bore pipes (made for engines with displacements under 500cc). I've already apologized for discrepancies, why don't you cut me a little slack?

My statement was based off the Red Line 10 Mil Serval Pipe Testing only.

I made a simple suggestion and stated my opinion on what felt would produce more fair and accurate results. I admitted I was wrong in calling the results "manipulated". I'm sorry for saying that, I should have worded it differently.

Is GRR still in business? I thought Andy shut his shop down. To my knowledge LED Custom Hand Coned In-Frames was the only Big Bore In-Frame Pipe Option available for the bigger DM/DMX Cheetah's that came equipped with a big bore flange and 1 1/8" diameter stinger tubes. Now that I think about it Sniper does offer a custom tailored big bore In-frame but I've never seen a bigger DM or DMX running them. I think the others you listed only make OOF's.

Nate at K a N Powersport's has my R2's right now and he's doing extensive dyno testing with his 4 mil dune ported stock cylinder using the R2's, T5's, CPI's and any other small bore pipe that he can get his hands on. IMO the pipe testing that Cam and Tyler did was manipulated and pretty much useless. I didn't see any point in doing a small bore pipe comparison on a big bore 521cc Super Serval that was specifically ported and set up to run at its full potential with one particular pipe. Then slapping a set of R1's Small Bore Pipes that were built for motors that were 450cc and smaller and set of CPI Big Bore Pipes that were made for 450cccc+ motors on 521cc Super Serval without adjusting the jetting or plotting the AFR reading on the chart. What exactly did that pipe test show you? Sniper's Pipes that were spec'd out for a ported 521cc Serval would perform better than a set of Stamped Small Bore R1 Rocket's that were built to run on engines ranging from 350cc-450cc's? A big bore pipe will perform better on a big bore motor than small bore pipes will on a big bore motor? Or carburetors that are jetted for one specific set of pipes will yield better numbers than a set of carburetors that are not jetted for one specific set of pipes? That test didn't show me anything I didn't already know.