Finally Dropped the 2 into 1 set up

[theeechozen1]

So I finally stuffed some other projects aside and pulled out the banshizzle for some much needed attention. The suspension gave me some hell (I had some wrong parts) but I got it ridable enough to do some tuning on it.

I bought a 2-1 from NYUK a few years ago and put it on my stock port 02 banshee along with a new set of reeds...its a Stage 4 intake & 38 PWK airstriker. I thought it was AWSOME, made it rip from the bottom like a 4 stroke. I got a MX port later on and the motor seemed faster but didn't feel like it was making the power it should. It was fast...just not fast enough, and the hit was totally gone....not a jump in power at all going through the RPMs

I'm not going into the jetting on this one as it would take a few pages to write up...I went through countless needle and jet combos trying to extract every ounce of juice I could.

So not being wowed with the performance when I parked it I picked up a set of 33PWKs set up by SUDCO & a noss head with 19s (my stock head is shaved 35 thou).....I bolted them up with some UPP intakes that came with the carbs and gave her hell once down the street with the jetting and needles that came in the carbs. HOLY CHIT! this thing is SO much faster than before...it comes on quick and rips the fronts off the ground. It's so much faster I fryed the clutch after just 2 rides down the street and I really couldn't get an idea of how high it's going to rev....but it's looking really, really good.

 

I just wanted to throw that out there because I see so many 2-1 questions on here, Im not bashing them, after all I own one :biggrin: .....but I am completely floored by the improvement & think I really just started to miss the power band I had when it was just stock with pipes & filters

 

fyi:

MX port

stock cages w/boysen reeds

ported UPP intakes w/crossover tube

uni pods

19cc domes on 100LL

T-5s

Big Radiator

 

Hit me up if ya want to buy a 2-1 with a 38PWK for cheap :thumbsup:

[TexasBansheeMan]

Pm sent!

[Washburn]

yup dual 33s will pull alot harder from peak mid to top, but thats not necesarly a great thing when your in the tight stuff. I love my 2:1 with a 35PWK No port Im gonna do the whole 4mil shabang when Im ready. Im keeping the 2:1 also. I have it so dialed in my plugs look like selma hyaks(sp) skin. Its nice.

[RoushRacing13]

Sounds great. I prefer my dual 34 Mikuni's, even for MX. Look at the builds on all of the PDV Duncan banshees. IMO the 2:1 is awesome but it has certain applications like GNCC or any time fuel mileage is a factor. In 1996 I was racing GNCC on a CT310R and a friend of mine dominated the Open A class that year on a banshee. He would use a 2:1 setup for the really long courses, but he always liked the hit he got from dual carbs.

[theeechozen1]

ya that set up is great for tight trails & smaller tracks....the 33s have created a mid range monster! I don't think it's gonna be too rev happy with my port but I'll have to wait and see.

 

TBM: Let me snap some fresh pics of these parts and send em to ya....I think I have everything:

 

38PWK Airstriker

Stage 4 Intake

ss throttle cable for thumby

o rings & intake boot have only a couple rides on em

bunch o needles & jets

Uni Pod filter with Outerware

 

Not the cleanest stuff around, but works great. I will clean up that sumbitch this weekend and take some pics...send me a pm with your email. But give me till after new years, prolly gonna drink too much this long weekend to do anything productive

[locogato11283]

dual carbs > single carb

 

banshee has two pipes, two cylinders, so it naturally should have two carbs.

[theeechozen1]

dual carbs > single carb

 

banshee has two pipes, two cylinders, so it naturally should have two carbs.

 

Indeed! ....Riding with one carb on a banshee is like banging a girl with one titty...it's ok, but leaves you thinking that something is just not right :ermm:

[csrmel]

i have never been a fan of the 2 into 1 setups for a banshee. when i go riding with friends i always love to swap bikes for a half an hour with other people just so we can get the feel for different banshee setups. i see how in theory a 2 into 1 would provide more bottom end, but a banshee isnt a bottom end kind of bike. it doesnt work with reality. the motor doesnt have bottom end ports. it has midrange ports in stock form . things like weed wackers, outboard motors, etc have bottom end port jobs and work fine with 2 into 1 or 3 into 1 setups. they also have bottom end exhaust pipes and that is assuming they come with a tuned pipe at all. i have seen plenty of weedwackers, outboard motors and personal watercraft which dont even have expansion chambers, just a crude exhaust system. so their porting is set very conseratively to take into account of this.

 

if you look at a 2 into 1 intake manifold, it just looks like a poor design how the air goes from the back of the air filter straight forward through the carb, then a sharp 50 degree turn to the side through the intake, and another sharp 50 degree turn to straighten it out and go into the reeds and finally the crank case. thats a lot more angles and turns than a dual carb setup. that just doesnt look like a good way to make power at any rpm as far as i am concerned. not even so much the airflow byt the fuel in the air probably seperated from the air somewhat in a 2 into 1 setup because of the sharp turns. also the intake on a 2 into 1 is longer than a dual carb intake. longer intakes with carbs espically premixed carbs is generally not a good thing. from what i can tell you generally want the carbs to be as close to the reeds as possible. i have seen some high end 2 stroke gocarts that mount the carb right on the crankcase without even using an intake manifold. the airflow through a dual carb setup is nearly a straight shot from the back of the air filter, through the carb, through the intake, a slight down turn (maybe 5-15 degrees depending on the intake) and then a straight shot through the reeds and into the crankcase. and if you use a 2 into 1 or dual carbs, both have to make that slightly downturn from the intake to the reeds. since both setups make this turn, i wont count it against either one.

 

im no expert on motor setups but i do know enough to be curious. if a person would want to run a 2 into 1 intake, then i think they would need to mill down the bottom of the cylinders in order to reduce port hight which would lower the point at which the motor starts to make power. this would provide loads more bottom end, but the motor would sign off early so the person would need to run taller gearing. they would also need an exhaust pipe designed for bottom end power. probably one of those dyno port 2 into 1 exhuast pipes would work good here with a short stinger and a free flowing muffler. but i have never used one and never even rode on a banshee with dyno port pipe so this is all speculation. i would think the cylinder head squish would need to be reworked, and this would be an area where the banshee could greatly benefit from added compression. go for as much compression as one would think they could get away with and not damage the motor. and the timing would need to be advanced a few degrees as well, but again its speculation since ive never actually used a setup like that. fun to speculate though. wish i had more mokey i would LOVE to try out weird combinations of parts and setups like that. i bet you could double the bottom end power by shaving the bottom of the cylinders down. also roughening up the intake on a 2 into 1 intake would probably help it out a bunch. better uet, dimple the intake to make it look like a golf ball.

 

wither its banshee or not, the whole motor must be considered as a package. you need carbs that match the motor size and setup including the ports. you need an exhaust pipe which matches the motors intake and espically the port work. the head must match the exhaust pipe and intended rpm's at which you want most power (as well as octane and type of fuel) the ignition timing must match the porting, exhaust, head and type of head chamber as well as the type of fuel and engine temparture. all the parts of the motor must be selected to work together as a package. that way each part will complement the next part in an effort to raise power and reduce heat.

 

as an obvious example, a set of shearer or cpi would not work good on a bike with woods port job or no porting at all. a woods or mx nbike needs midrange pipes. so why do people put 2 into 1 intakes on a bike with porting and midrange or top end pipes? the banshee is made to scream, not to pull jetskis on a trailer and go through mud and tight technical trails. technical shit is what a new 450 is for. dont get me wrong i love trail riding as much as the next guy infact woods riding and technical shit is probably 80% of the riding i do. LoL maybe i bought the wrong quad then. , but i wont pretend my banshee is half as good as one of them 450 4 strokes, or even an old 250r. i have never seen a 2 into 1 setup that pulled harder on the bottom end then a set of properly jetted stock carbs on a stockish motor. and im no expert on this stuff either espically highly modified motors. but that is my expierence and if you ask shane, dave, fastrthnu, or methyman they will tell you that my bike is pretty dang quick for being a stock port motor thats never been opened up and im only running 22cc domes wihch is only a few psi higher compression than the stock head is. my motor cant hold a candle to a ported bike, or even an identical banshee with a rider who weighs less or even someone who knows what they are doing! but with my big 250lbs ass hunkered over the seat i like to think i do reasonably well for my obvious weight handicap.

 

yeah i know the stock banshee carbs get a good beating by people here who consider them little more than useless junk. but the stock carbs really can be made to perform good on a relatively stockish motor, and even some ported and stroked setups. you just need to take the time to properly jet them. i have said this probably 20 times already in past threads, but it seems like everyone i meet who owns a banshee has their carbs setup to run really stinking rich i mean pig ass rich. i see some bikes that run so rich they never stop smoking even after the motor and pipes are fully warmed up. the motors run so rich they only fire on every other revolution (4 stroking). i guess most people think that if you run the motor rich on gas then it might last a bit longer between rebuilds. but honestly if you jet the carbs really good the motor will last just as long, and maybe even longer since you wont be 4 stroking so the throttle doesnt have to be open so far to maintain constant speed. less throttle means less heat produced. the things that i dont understand is why run the motor pig rich on gas? if someone is worried about motor life, then run the oil ratio that the factory recomends which is 20:1 or 25:1 depending on the oil. then jet the carbs properly and it will barely smoke if it even smokes at all when its fully warmed up.

when my bike is fully warmed up with the pipes good and hot and no residual oil in the pipes it wont even smoke at 20:1 oil to fuel ratio. its only after ive been puttering around for a while at low rpm's and low throttle positions that the motor smokes when i get back on the throttle and let her rip.

 

this is all of course assuming we are talking about a stockish motor here. sorry for the long winded and very off topic post. im a little fucked up right now. i probably fucked up all the points i was trying to make. go easy on me with the replies. seemed like they made sence when i typed them. wonder what it looks like tomorrow.

[NYUK]

Indeed! ....Riding with one carb on a banshee is like banging a girl with one titty...it's ok, but leaves you thinking that something is just not right :ermm:

 

 

hahahaha, i never heard it explained like that, but i love that anology. that`s a keeper.

the argument is endless.i am from the school of nothing 2 into 1 should be on a banshee.i have owned many bikes with the single set up. they are wicked out of the hole . but they peter out on top.i like big carbs and big pipes. a banshee is meant to scream and breath heavy.one titty. lol.

[inthemail]

nice technical post. outlines alot of points, even if you are fucked up. im 2 quarts down on boones wine and understood it fine!

i have hered of a couple guys running modified dynoports for drags but i always hear teh same thing about the intake and exhaust and strongley agree on the school of 2 into 1 nothing.... it was made with 2 it should have to.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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does anyone know where i can get that new rectangle jug and piston with the double armed both tits up crankshaft to go with my 2 into one accessories?

[Banshee0028]

i have never been a fan of the 2 into 1 setups for a banshee. when i go riding with friends i always love to swap bikes for a half an hour with other people just so we can get the feel for different banshee setups. i see how in theory a 2 into 1 would provide more bottom end, but a banshee isnt a bottom end kind of bike. it doesnt work with reality. the motor doesnt have bottom end ports. it has midrange ports in stock form . things like weed wackers, outboard motors, etc have bottom end port jobs and work fine with 2 into 1 or 3 into 1 setups. they also have bottom end exhaust pipes and that is assuming they come with a tuned pipe at all. i have seen plenty of weedwackers, outboard motors and personal watercraft which dont even have expansion chambers, just a crude exhaust system. so their porting is set very conseratively to take into account of this.

 

if you look at a 2 into 1 intake manifold, it just looks like a poor design how the air goes from the back of the air filter straight forward through the carb, then a sharp 50 degree turn to the side through the intake, and another sharp 50 degree turn to straighten it out and go into the reeds and finally the crank case. thats a lot more angles and turns than a dual carb setup. that just doesnt look like a good way to make power at any rpm as far as i am concerned. not even so much the airflow byt the fuel in the air probably seperated from the air somewhat in a 2 into 1 setup because of the sharp turns. also the intake on a 2 into 1 is longer than a dual carb intake. longer intakes with carbs espically premixed carbs is generally not a good thing. from what i can tell you generally want the carbs to be as close to the reeds as possible. i have seen some high end 2 stroke gocarts that mount the carb right on the crankcase without even using an intake manifold. the airflow through a dual carb setup is nearly a straight shot from the back of the air filter, through the carb, through the intake, a slight down turn (maybe 5-15 degrees depending on the intake) and then a straight shot through the reeds and into the crankcase. and if you use a 2 into 1 or dual carbs, both have to make that slightly downturn from the intake to the reeds. since both setups make this turn, i wont count it against either one.

 

im no expert on motor setups but i do know enough to be curious. if a person would want to run a 2 into 1 intake, then i think they would need to mill down the bottom of the cylinders in order to reduce port hight which would lower the point at which the motor starts to make power. this would provide loads more bottom end, but the motor would sign off early so the person would need to run taller gearing. they would also need an exhaust pipe designed for bottom end power. probably one of those dyno port 2 into 1 exhuast pipes would work good here with a short stinger and a free flowing muffler. but i have never used one and never even rode on a banshee with dyno port pipe so this is all speculation. i would think the cylinder head squish would need to be reworked, and this would be an area where the banshee could greatly benefit from added compression. go for as much compression as one would think they could get away with and not damage the motor. and the timing would need to be advanced a few degrees as well, but again its speculation since ive never actually used a setup like that. fun to speculate though. wish i had more mokey i would LOVE to try out weird combinations of parts and setups like that. i bet you could double the bottom end power by shaving the bottom of the cylinders down. also roughening up the intake on a 2 into 1 intake would probably help it out a bunch. better uet, dimple the intake to make it look like a golf ball.

 

wither its banshee or not, the whole motor must be considered as a package. you need carbs that match the motor size and setup including the ports. you need an exhaust pipe which matches the motors intake and espically the port work. the head must match the exhaust pipe and intended rpm's at which you want most power (as well as octane and type of fuel) the ignition timing must match the porting, exhaust, head and type of head chamber as well as the type of fuel and engine temparture. all the parts of the motor must be selected to work together as a package. that way each part will complement the next part in an effort to raise power and reduce heat.

 

as an obvious example, a set of shearer or cpi would not work good on a bike with woods port job or no porting at all. a woods or mx nbike needs midrange pipes. so why do people put 2 into 1 intakes on a bike with porting and midrange or top end pipes? the banshee is made to scream, not to pull jetskis on a trailer and go through mud and tight technical trails. technical shit is what a new 450 is for. dont get me wrong i love trail riding as much as the next guy infact woods riding and technical shit is probably 80% of the riding i do. LoL maybe i bought the wrong quad then. , but i wont pretend my banshee is half as good as one of them 450 4 strokes, or even an old 250r. i have never seen a 2 into 1 setup that pulled harder on the bottom end then a set of properly jetted stock carbs on a stockish motor. and im no expert on this stuff either espically highly modified motors. but that is my expierence and if you ask shane, dave, fastrthnu, or methyman they will tell you that my bike is pretty dang quick for being a stock port motor thats never been opened up and im only running 22cc domes wihch is only a few psi higher compression than the stock head is. my motor cant hold a candle to a ported bike, or even an identical banshee with a rider who weighs less or even someone who knows what they are doing! but with my big 250lbs ass hunkered over the seat i like to think i do reasonably well for my obvious weight handicap.

 

yeah i know the stock banshee carbs get a good beating by people here who consider them little more than useless junk. but the stock carbs really can be made to perform good on a relatively stockish motor, and even some ported and stroked setups. you just need to take the time to properly jet them. i have said this probably 20 times already in past threads, but it seems like everyone i meet who owns a banshee has their carbs setup to run really stinking rich i mean pig ass rich. i see some bikes that run so rich they never stop smoking even after the motor and pipes are fully warmed up. the motors run so rich they only fire on every other revolution (4 stroking). i guess most people think that if you run the motor rich on gas then it might last a bit longer between rebuilds. but honestly if you jet the carbs really good the motor will last just as long, and maybe even longer since you wont be 4 stroking so the throttle doesnt have to be open so far to maintain constant speed. less throttle means less heat produced. the things that i dont understand is why run the motor pig rich on gas? if someone is worried about motor life, then run the oil ratio that the factory recomends which is 20:1 or 25:1 depending on the oil. then jet the carbs properly and it will barely smoke if it even smokes at all when its fully warmed up.

when my bike is fully warmed up with the pipes good and hot and no residual oil in the pipes it wont even smoke at 20:1 oil to fuel ratio. its only after ive been puttering around for a while at low rpm's and low throttle positions that the motor smokes when i get back on the throttle and let her rip.

 

this is all of course assuming we are talking about a stockish motor here. sorry for the long winded and very off topic post. im a little fucked up right now. i probably fucked up all the points i was trying to make. go easy on me with the replies. seemed like they made sence when i typed them. wonder what it looks like tomorrow.

Dude, are you writing book or something..LOL

 

Yea I do have a 2-1 setup and really like it. The jetting is SUPER easy. However I am getting pretty interested in how a set of duals would work for my setup. I upgraded from a set of stock carbs! Maybe one day I will try out a set and see how they compare. For now I am sticking to the single, but yea maybe a GOOD tuned set of duals would be better even if it was setup for trail type riding ? :cool:

[slowpokebanshee]

I have barely finished my eighth beer-and I understood pefectly....keep on keepin on-2-1 sucks-dual 35 mm carbs are for woods/trail bikes and stock carbs are for highly ported/stroker/hill racers........

makes sense.

burp\

[RZBansheeMan]

If you want more bottom end torque, build a powervalved RZ motor with a stroker crank........No Gay 2 into 1 bull shit, the RZ in stock trim will have more torque than the single carb and dynojunk pipe combo.

 

Just my opinion. :geek:

Edited December 29, 2007 by RZBansheeMan