phunt Posted September 18, 2012 Report Share Posted September 18, 2012 So if you get to light on the lockup weight, you can start to lose mph? I have got to say you have open my eyes on a fine tune a clutch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowerThanYou Posted September 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2012 So if you get to light on the lockup weight, you can start to lose mph? You are correct & can lose some clutchs also. Google "valve spring tester" I found 2 different ones pretty easy. One is digital & the other traditional needle. Both read in 2 lb. incriments. I prefer the needle pointer it's easy to split the marks to get a reading down to 1 lb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joejr915 Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 Our track doesnt have traction that much in the past. This weekend there will be probably way to much traction. My question is would i need to take weights off lockup or put more on. Or should i put weaker or stiffer spring in? Also should i just gear it? Im running stock spring at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickedcarbine Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 http://m.summitracing.com/search/Part-Type/Valve-Spring-Testers/ How about the mini Proform they have listed? I even like their mini digital. And they have an actual bench top from moroso for a decent price. Also when you are testing pressures, do you guys ever test the springs with some sort of stop or guide that lets you measure them at installed height? Now my contribution, here is a photo for you slingshot fellas. The driveline unit comes reccomended to have 2 balls in each of the short grooves. However I got to thinking about ways to make this thing more progressive because even with the softer springs it can be pretty violent. So I pulled one ball out of the center of all the short groove sections and places them in each of the longer ones. Feels a lot more smooth and less violent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowerThanYou Posted September 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 http://m.summitracing.com/search/Part-Type/Valve-Spring-Testers/How about the mini Proform they have listed? I even like their mini digital. And they have an actual bench top from moroso for a decent price. Also when you are testing pressures, do you guys ever test the springs with some sort of stop or guide that lets you measure them at installed height? ***Note*** I can't stress enough, you need to be able to read the pressure in 1lb. increments.Yes, we use dial calipers to get our installed height when checking pressure. There are various reasons we do that for, one being the installed hieght changes with clutch wear.Question of the day. Where do you start out with spring base/static pressure?If you are currently running a combination & it's not burning up clutch's. 1st order of buisness is to baseline what you have. Make adjustments in either direction & analyze the data you recieve. The quad will tell you what it wants. Just like tuning a carb, you have to determine what it wants.Now for a new motor combo what do we do? Error on the high side for the set-up. I'll try & give an example. Someone has a 4mm cub with 3 light & 3 heavy springs. I don't like using them terms, but that's how the majority describe their spring pressure. Now they want or are building a DM or DMX. I would go back & baseline or pressure test the 4mm springs. If it was set-up correctly you should have to increase the base/static pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cce12 Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 Hey Bryan- I want to first say thank you for starting this thread, because I now really have a much BETTER understanding on making the appropriate adjustments to the lock up. Before this thread my best 60' was 1.63 now in just 3x's to the track it is mid 1.5s and I am not even close on my setup yet. I think that you have posted all the correct information on the thread for everyone to read and even dropped some hints to get us moving in the right direction. I was very surprised with the S.P. I had to use before I got my 60ft to start improving. My goal is to get into the low 1.4s. With that said thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowerThanYou Posted September 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 Hey Bryan- I want to first say thank you for starting this thread, because I now really have a much BETTER understanding on making the appropriate adjustments to the lock up. Before this thread my best 60' was 1.63 now in just 3x's to the track it is mid 1.5s and I am not even close on my setup yet. I think that you have posted all the correct information on the thread for everyone to read and even dropped some hints to get us moving in the right direction. I was very surprised with the S.P. I had to use before I got my 60ft to start improving. My goal is to get into the low 1.4s. With that said thanks again. Wow, I must say I appreciate the thanks! I was starting to wonder if anyone was actually doing something with this information. Keep up the good work & the 60's will lower. What surface(s) are you running on? Here's another thread started by someone else that has a lot of good information in it. Be advised it also has drama in it, from some people not understanding clutch tuning. Copy anything & repost, but please leave the drama there. http://bansheehq.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=117576 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cce12 Posted September 24, 2012 Report Share Posted September 24, 2012 This is my set up: quad just a stock frame with a + 12 swingarm + wheelie bar. Motor is a 421 cub, 1-5 override, race gas with a 210 rider. I was just making a general statement, but any suggestions would be helpful. I've played with my tire pressure from 10psi - 7psi, burnouts, no burnouts and it seems to be a fine line to what my motor likes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheelman Chassis Posted September 24, 2012 Report Share Posted September 24, 2012 Has anyone ever ran 3 springs to get better 60' times and adding lots of weight to the lockup. I thought about tring it I have used 3 springs before... For me this was only because the track i was at was a real loose track , I also used secondary springs and weights in conjunction with this.. Some builders i have heard will do something similar to this and add a TON of weight to the arms . IMO this is a very crude way of making the clutch act like a two stage clutch, however i have seen it work with ok results. I have seen this used to get a smaller motor to pull big tires, however i believe there are other ways to do this. Lately i have been using a modified hub/pressure plate to measure total spring pressure. chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phunt Posted September 24, 2012 Report Share Posted September 24, 2012 Where are you shiming the springs to change spring pressure? Does the air gap need to stay the same when tuneing the clutch, does it change your lockup pressure ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowerThanYou Posted September 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 This is my set up: quad just a stock frame with a + 12 swingarm + wheelie bar. Motor is a 421 cub, 1-5 override, race gas with a 210 rider. I was just making a general statement, but any suggestions would be helpful. I've played with my tire pressure from 10psi - 7psi, burnouts, no burnouts and it seems to be a fine line to what my motor likes. We run between 4 - 6 lbs. tire pressure & most of the time around 5 lbs. is the sweet spot. We use 5 as the baseline & tweek it in .1 increments for the track conditions. The closer you get to 4 lbs. the more unsafe things become. As for a burnout we very rarely do one, but it has it's place & time with other adjustments having to be made. We use a dry hop the majority of time. Occassionally we do nothing but go around the water, wipe the debri from the tires and stage. Butt placement on the seat for the conditions is sometimes help full. I have used 3 springs before... For me this was only because the track i was at was a real loose track , I also used secondary springs and weights in conjunction with this.. Some builders i have heard will do something similar to this and add a TON of weight to the arms . IMO this is a very crude way of making the clutch act like a two stage clutch, however i have seen it work with ok results. I have seen this used to get a smaller motor to pull big tires, however i believe there are other ways to do this. Lately i have been using a modified hub/pressure plate to measure total spring pressure. chris I agree with Wheelman! 3 springs is not a good way of going about this. If you are resorting to that, there are most likely problems in the clutch or in another area(s). As for measuring total spring pressure. We use both ways to measure; one at a time or all 6. All 6 is the easiest, but we don't have that set-up in our trailer. Where are you shiming the springs to change spring pressure? Does the air gap need to stay the same when tuneing the clutch, does it change your lockup pressure ? Someone is catching on to the basics. We shim at the lock-up end. The air gap will change as the clutch wears. As long as it's within specifications. I wouldn't worry about it too much. I'm not saying this isn't important for us and we do different things to control, adjust the airgap & fine tuning of the clutch set-up. I consider this area for the experienced clutch tuner's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowerThanYou Posted October 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 Going from asphalt to dirt did you find your self going with more or less base pressure? More base pressure, but have used that set-up on asphalt also. Regardless, the trend shows more base pressure for the sand/dirt. I think a lot of it is the tire roll out, gearing & the drag of the different surfaces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowerThanYou Posted October 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 We finally found the limits on the frictions, it happened somewhere around 200 runs. This was discovered last weekend when putting the quad back on asphalt. The clutch frictions have been used on 300' sand for about 125 runs over the past year. The frictions had around 125 runs on asphalt to start with. 250 runs we found broken frictions, decrease in performance & a clutch set-up that was not race able. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowerThanYou Posted October 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 is any one using a slingshot for their tuning and any suggestions im going with one this winter Someone posted a while ago about using the slingshot. The majority of principles discussed in this thread will apply to the slingshot. The main difference is how the dynamic weight is tuned. IMO it's easier to make changes to the standard lock-up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowerThanYou Posted October 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 (edited) seems to be going good when it grabs it goes lol hold on tight. I used the 1st sentence for the call. There's really now way of telling without out a timing system or data logging. A proper set-up clutch will go at the drop of the clutch lever & be a smooth transistion to lock-up. This will happen very quickly with a standard lock-up 10-20 feet. With a multi-stage it can come in that quickly or be delayed further out. Edited October 24, 2012 by SlowerThanYou Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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