Surfrjag Posted September 27, 2013 Report Share Posted September 27, 2013 thought you would get a kick out of me asking a question. I tried to play your game once before.. lol Maybe this has something to do with the lockip arms? The std style lockup i just went to is new to me, all my experience is with the slingshot. Maybe its how much gap when the clutch is pulled? This doesnt seem to important to me as some other things as i have learned from your experience. And comon sence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB3 Posted September 27, 2013 Report Share Posted September 27, 2013 Looks cheezy and like the springs could break or come loose easy. If the arms are up or back and the spring has a "little play or movement" in them they should stay in place, now breaking is another story if the wire on the spring is too thin and or too small or cannot handle the weight being applied then you could have a issue with them breaking. That is where the added weight to the arm will come into play and how much the springs can handle @ rated travel. STY i think the issue of the spring breakage is because the springs being used cannot handle the rotational force from the clutch and the added weight to the arms with being a small spring. This is just my thoughts on the issues maybe with the springs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowerThanYou Posted October 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 A company actually thinks they are doing something new with a lock-up. It's rumored another company is coming out with one similar/same, soon. There's no need to spend money for a new lock-up to accomplish this. It has been done for many years with backyard engineering & for very little $ you can do this with a little ingenuity. Here's the other one, not ready for order yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-Madd Posted October 6, 2013 Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 Are you serious with that minimum? I wouldn't recommend that! I thought you meant the gap between the lockup arms and the pressure plate, not how far the plate is out when the clutch is engaged. I don't mess with this much, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowerThanYou Posted October 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 I thought you meant the gap between the lockup arms and the pressure plate, not how far the plate is out when the clutch is engaged. I don't mess with this much, lol. phunt is the one that wanted the air gap subject brought up. Most refer to the air gap between the lockup arms & the pressure plate as you stated. Some will tune with this, but we basically look for our minimum gap needed for proper clutch disengagement. Sometimes we change our clutch pack height. That does have a secondary effect on changing the air gap, but as long as it falls between or min. & max. We are not worried about it. However, I think it plays a bigger role in tuning on other styles of clutch management devices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickedcarbine Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 Hey STY, I got a kinda weird situation and I have a theory of what's happening but wanna get your take or any one else for that matter. It's not on a drag bike it's on a flat track bike. I oval race and I have been setting the bike up to slip the clutch out of the turn on our short tracks which makes a ton of heat and eventually the clutch lever goes limp. After a little cool down time the clutch is tight again. Is this the springs going totally soft from heat soak? The clutch still seems to lock up but I'm assuming it's the weight of the clutch doing almost all of the work. It's a weird set up but it makes this thing 4 poke like out of the turns on short tracks. Also, do you guys think its nuts to consider an oil cooler set up? I thought about modding an RZ cover so the oil pump just drew from the tranny area and dumped from the cooler over the clutch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surfrjag Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 Dont as he says "expect" an answer.. he wont ever answer anything.. lol I won 2 1st place trophies this past weekend in some heads up classes 351-450cc. Even 2nd in a larger class 500-700cc. This clutch tunning works! im using lighter than stock weight on the springs and about 16.6g on each arm with my 421 cub. Its got a good ammt of slip i can feel it even going into 4th and 5th slip just a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickedcarbine Posted October 17, 2013 Report Share Posted October 17, 2013 Multi stage... Ehh. Been toying with the idea of one of those for the oval bike. Just seems crazy expensive. Any one happy with the Hays unit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedder Posted October 17, 2013 Report Share Posted October 17, 2013 Us asphalt racers have the luxury of a very consistent surface and narrow operating range and it's still a chore staying on top of the multi-stage tuning. With so many variables and condition changes, settings that work great on Saturday might not be worth a shit come Sunday. Especially if you change tracks! My opinion tricked... In what your looking for I think you'd end up frustrated as hell. That said-They are easier to adjust than a sling shot. I do like the idea of a snowmobile style clutch lol. Tuning one is really in the realm of black magic to me but they would be a great thing for not only what you're looking for but also for the consistency I need in bracket racing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheelman Chassis Posted October 18, 2013 Report Share Posted October 18, 2013 I have been using a hays multistage in a kind of weird way with good results... we have been in the high 1.3 60' with no wheelie bar. I have also used it on the sand with similar results but no time to really dig into it on sand. This is on a 4dm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowerThanYou Posted October 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 We are going back to the basics & hopefully I can explain things a little clearer this time. IMO, the Baseline tune-up is the single most important step/start in setting up the lock-up. It doesn't matter if you think your baseline is correct/not correct or even if it's your 1st time using a lock-up. It’s a known reference to make changes from, if the change(s) don’t work go back to your baseline. If something works it becomes part of your new baseline. Baseline: Spring installed height, spring pressure @ the installed height, arm weight, clutch stack height & air gap measurement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowerThanYou Posted October 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 Items needed to baseline: Pressure plate, clutch boss/inner hub, appropriate number of good fibers & steels, dial calipers, pressure gauge, small spring pressure gauge & a vice. The four following items can be found for some pretty cheap prices. The scale cost me under $15 from Harbor Freight, the vice I already had & it's too big (need something smaller), the spring pressure gauge has went up a bunch, but below is a link for one. This is a basic set-up we carry in the trailer for adjustments at the track. http://www.powerhouseproducts.com/ph/valve-train-tools/valve-spring-tools-page-2html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowerThanYou Posted October 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 Spring Installed height: This is easiest with everything out of the motor, but can be done while it’s installed. With the appropriate number of fibers & steels installed in the clutch boss. Install the pressure plate, make sure the clutch boss splines & pressure plate grooves engage properly. The shaded area of the clutch boss/inner hub standoff, for lack of better word. Is the base for the first point of measurement. The shaded area of the pressure plate spring seat. Is the second point of reference for measurement. The shaded area of the total assembly for your installed height measurement. This is what it looks like when using the depth gauge of your dial calipers. If I remember right the measurement should come out somewhere in the .900 range for the stock set-up. This will be your spring installed height you use for measuring your spring pressure. & most lock-ups without a step built/machined into them ***NOTE*** While most lock-ups will come without a spring step/locater machined into them. If for some reason you have a step/located machined in like ours. You need to take another measurement as shown in the pic below. This needs to be added to the measurement in the above paragraph to get the spring installed height. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowerThanYou Posted November 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2013 Spring Pressure @ The Installed Height: After measuring your spring installed height, you use that measurement to get your spring pressure. While the pic will show doing one at a time. You can measure them all at the same time with other set-ups. Regardless, you need the total weight of all springs being used as measured for your base pressure baseline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FullThrottle_06' Posted November 3, 2013 Report Share Posted November 3, 2013 You now have my attention on this subject. Pretty cool of ya to take the time and try to further explain some of your R&D testing with clutch tuning. Besides, I'm more of a picture kind of guy anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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