Lock Out/Lock-Up Tuning

[trickedcarbine]

^ Interesting. I'm not a drag guy but use mine on oval track and focus the clutch tune on the hole shot, and it happens to slip a bit between gears getting out of the turns.

Basically it becomes a fine combo of gearing/tire, spring pressure, and weight. I went through plenty of springs and tried lots of different weight. 

So you're saying it doesn't have enough weight to fully lock the clutch up beyond the 60'? Since you say it 60's ok, but still slips, that means the current springs can slip the shift like you want. So try giving it a touch of weight till it just locks up all the way. Then prepare to sacrifice some springs from there. 

 

[Dm554banshee777]

12 hours ago, trickedcarbine said:

^ Interesting. I'm not a drag guy but use mine on oval track and focus the clutch tune on the hole shot, and it happens to slip a bit between gears getting out of the turns.

Basically it becomes a fine combo of gearing/tire, spring pressure, and weight. I went through plenty of springs and tried lots of different weight. 

So you're saying it doesn't have enough weight to fully lock the clutch up beyond the 60'? Since you say it 60's ok, but still slips, that means the current springs can slip the shift like you want. So try giving it a touch of weight till it just locks up all the way. Then prepare to sacrifice some springs from there. 

 

In the perfect scenario… You should be able to dump the clutch.. have limited tire spin for maximum traction, and have just enough weight to make it slip a tiny bit between the 4-5 shift so it doesn't drop out of the peak power.. but also lock up pretty much 100% going through the traps. Some would suggest to go up a tooth on the rear to make it pick the gear shift up a little easier, but I think that is a bandaid fix. When you change your gearing to have that easier transition between shifts you also lose potentiel Mph IMO. On the other hand I don't believe letting the clutch slip really bad on the 60ft helps e.t. Losing that power through the clutch can be as bad as losing it through tire spin. I see guys at the track trying to make the clutch slip so bad the bike doesn't wanna move out of its own way. I think theres a very fine line. Thats where my idea of having more base pressure and little to no arm weight comes in.. You're still having the 2 stages of clutch being applied.. just not as aggressively. When I say a good 60ft ..most people going to the track will see low 1.5s to high 1.4s on a good set up. Now you go to a Psda race and that changes.. Im talking low 1.30s and high 1.2s out of small cubs on the dirt. Obviously 60% of the E.t comes from power to weight ratio..and 40% comes from a good tuner but I think they are doing something different than the majority of racers.

[SlowerThanYou]

On ‎9‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 8:43 PM, Dm554banshee777 said:

I have a question.. Im beginning to get fairly serious in the clutch tuning world and have realized that everyone seems to have a different way of doing things. In your clutch tuning thread, You recommend pulling base psi and watch as your 60ft improves, then start adding or taking away arm weight. My background is 300ft sand/dirt drags and I've talked to many about the subject.. some are more willing to share info than others.Ive been doing most of my tuning your way.. low base pressure and a decent amount of arm weight for down track lock up.. This seems to work but as bikes get lighter.. and e.t are getting faster ( example: 0-425 record is now 3.51) I see people trying new things. Something Ive noticed is the super light small motor bikes seem to be pulling very high Mph for their engine sizes, and when I listen to them go down the track, their rpm stays very high (which I assume is peak power range for them). So my question is.. Would running high Base psi and Very little to no arm weight help a smaller motor stay in peak power? To have just enough base psi to get off the line and 60ft decent.. but not enough arm weight to drag the motor down between shifts.Less arm weight would also mean less rotating weight to turn.. I would think this way could allow some slippage between shifts. The main goal Im trying to figure out is the slip between shifts. If you have any insight on this I would love to hear it. Thanks.

 

This thread was intended to bring light to a subject (clutch tuning) that was pretty much not being used in the Quad world when the thread was started! Keep your open mind about people doing things differently, nothing wrong with that.  IMO, the key in this thread has always been the baseline, 1st post & should be the same for anyone!

Now, you mention pulling base pressure & watch your 60's improve, then start adding or taking away arm weight. I hope that's not what people are taking away from the thread. I try & stress baseline 1st, then make changes from there with adding or subtracting base pressure. I'm sure, I've mentioned that I think most run too much base pressure. 

You mention a ? about slipping the clutch on shifts. It works & it's a very fine line. The key in a small or larger motor is staying around the peak power during the run. The window gets bigger usually with the larger motor. I can't remember if I mentioned it in this thread or another, an example of or rpm window of our 443 cub. It was a very narrow rpm window.

 

 

[SlowerThanYou]

On ‎9‎/‎29‎/‎2017 at 10:14 AM, Dm554banshee777 said:

 Now you go to a Psda race and that changes.. Im talking low 1.30s and high 1.2s out of small cubs on the dirt. Obviously 60% of the E.t comes from power to weight ratio..and 40% comes from a good tuner but I think they are doing something different than the majority of racers.

I have a very strong opinion on this & I argue with Angel about this pretty often. Weight isn't everything, here's our example. 443 cub on race gas, stock frame (320 lbs.) & a 220 lb. rider. It was pulling low 1.30s & running 84 mph in 300'. That really isn't shit anymore, but back in the day it was making noise. Anyway, I don't get hooked on the weight deal, but it's important. I put the most emphasis on tuning #1, the proper rider (not just the lightest), maintenance & weight.

[JTmachining]

JFC

[theputz]

Anyway to get the photos added back to the main tutorial on page 15 & 16?

[SlowerThanYou]

I can't share the photobucket crap anymore. Maybe I can explain it to you if you have a question.

[#1JUANstunna]

On 4/16/2018 at 6:28 PM, SlowerThanYou said:

I can't share the photobucket crap anymore. Maybe I can explain it to you if you have a question.

Photobucket sucks! I can't access any of my PB stuff.

 

 

Bump to the top it's racing season

 

[Keno]

Use Firefox on a computer and use this addon, the pictures are showing up for me.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/photobucket-fix/?src=api

[SlowerThanYou]

Hope to do some type of update to this thread in the future.

[SlowerThanYou]

We're going back to the basics with the DMX!

While the clutch lever feels pretty light, I have no idea what the baseline clutch set-up is. I pulled the clutch set-up out today to baseline the clutch.  

It has a Direct Drive Lock-up installed with a decent amount of staggered weight installed. 

It only had 4 springs installed, 2 appear to be stock & the other 2 are unknown.

Pulling out the clutch plates, I found this is an 8-plate clutch system.

I have the measuring tools coming to do a complete baseline of the current clutch set-up. This baseline was used for 1/4-mile racing & it will probably change. We will start testing with the baseline. Then will provide the changes made to hopefully improve the 60's with a heavy chassis/rider.

Thee one & only 1700Camaro/STY! 😛

[SlowerThanYou]

OK, here's our clutch baseline something I said I wouldn't do.

Our clutch spring installed height is .850 & we pressure tested our springs at that height.

Results: 176 lbs. total base pressure.

Our staggard arm weights are:

3 arms, 22.40 grams on each arm

3 arms, 17.83 grams on each arm

This is our basic baseline setting we will start test with. There're secondary factors that play a factor into the basic lock-up settings: crankcase oil, clutch frictions, drive plate material & coatings. I'm sure I forgot some like clutch speed. Tedder (Biff), jump in & help me out, if you wish.

The next step is getting a rough fuel tune on the engine. Then hopefully do some 1st gear launches to test the baseline clutch in a couple weeks.

Thee one & only 1700Camaro/STY 😛

[SlowerThanYou]

While the purpose of this test hit(s) wasn't for clutch tuning. What would you do in the clutch tuning to help mitigate the traction issue?

FYI, we are going to some better asphalt with some freshened rear tires & some pour a puddle traction compound. Plus, we are going to have our heavy rider on it. We're changing nothing in the clutch, even though I think I should! The only thing I changed in the Lectrons is open up the power jets a little more.

Thee one & only 1700camaro/STY!

 

[SlowerThanYou]

As mentioned in the DMX thread I've been busy!

Anyway, been building a DMX toolbox & a stackable modular rolling tool cart. The cart is being used for engine, clutch, gearing, spare parts & everything needed for the track.  I have found or not found the selection of clutch tuning parts is not there like it used to be. Barnett was my primary place to go for clutch tuning materials. I guess I'm going to get creative on some items.

I'm going to do some or try some things I haven't done before to induce clutch slippage. For now, we are leaving the clutch set-up as is. We may make changes after this next text session.

Till then, I'm sure you're on the edge of your seats.

Thee one & only 1700camaro/STY! 😛

[kawa110]

What about driveline clutches?
What clutch oil you using?


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