i agree. i really dont think a 10mm stroker is all that necessary for dune riding but thats just me. also, for play riding and messin around i would not wanna go any longer than +2 if that. im used to fuckin around on the 450 and with its short wheel base i can whip it around like no other. i dont think i could ever justify the cost of building a 10mm motor as a duner..but then again, i like riding my 450 at the dunes for playin and messin around.