SlowerThanYou

Not speaking for Tedder on any of these replies, LOL! 1/4 mile, we need all the help we can get with fuel capacity. If I'm not mistaken, got mine for $150 new. They leak from the carb adapter screws, they need to be sealed.

I guess I should have said what we learned from or 1st track outing. The only problem we had was a broken water pump shaft. Tires: We ran a variety of 84"-85" RO tires & one set of 80" RO. K&T's thoughts was, too much RO. We have 2 sets of 75" RO tires now, 22x11x8 14 paddle Rippers & 24x11x10 Extremes both on 10" wide rims. Compression: We both knew we didn't have enough compression for sand. We are having new domes cut right now. I don't know where the compression is going to be set at yet. Fuel: Going back to alky for sand, but staying on gas for asphalt. Primarily for the cooling for the hot lapping style of racing on sand. The carbs are basically set-up already, but going to add another power jet & get another set of needles for tuning. Clutch: This was probably the biggest learning experience, because the big change in primary ratio. We went from a 2.86 to a 2.54 ratio. According to most, this speeds up the basket speed & that affects the clutch application. We are slowing down the clutch lock-up for the next outing. I will cover this a little more in the Lock-up/Lock-out Tuning thread.

Where are we going with this thread in the future: Going to cover some problems we discovered on the 1st track outing & the changes we're making for the next track session. Provide ET/MPH changes good or bad on the next outing. I will not give specific changes, other that it ran .10/1 mph (example) quicker or slower than our 1st outing. We are hoping to race May 3,4 & 5 in Kingman, AZ.

To put it in it's simplest terms, you hit the nail on the head. I think tricked knows there's more to it than that.

I'm curious about your arm weight, that's where I would start by adding some.

X2 & site sponsor also. http://sandtoyzunlimited.com/sandtoyz/newlook/Modern_clean.cfm

We got another set of paddles today. We were going to by a set of AR paddles, but decided against it. We ended up getting 24x11x10 on a 10" wide rim, 74" RO, 16 paddle extremes. The tire has a pretty flat profile & that's what we were looking for. Plus, the weight came in lighter than what we thought 14 lbs. each. We plan on stretching them & hoping to get them around a 75" RO.

Thanks!

I have nothing to do with this quad. Other than being proud of my PR son, doing most, if not all the tuning on this bike. He made a bunch of sacrifices to have this thing work the way it does. Left lane.

Yes to motor & multiple times in different lanes with guard beams on. I was hoping to make Gilbert this year, had a good outing last year for our 1st time. Maybe next year, but asphalt is really what we enjoy the most.

I'm sure the bike you are talking about is Superlight & the bike is in Gilbert now. I have nothing to do with that bike, but I did see it in the garage. As for arguments, I don't care what you think. I've posted my slips, I've seen the runs & slips for the killer 60's. It's being done with different bikes on different tracks. If you choose not to believe it, that's your choice. Good luck in Gilbert.

You are getting the motors mix up. Noel's 18 DMX was on alky. My small DMX 643cc is on race gas. My motor hasn't pulled anything close to the PR guys.

Most use an ass load of nitrous, but a few don't. Noel went a high 1.18 - low 1.22 60's with a 18DMX in a all titanium bike including most fasteners with a very light rider. The nitrous guys don't believe in the clutch tuning, but Noel & Angel do! I don't even compare any of my set-ups to the PR guy's. As for our current motor/chassis it should run circles around our old set-up for both 60' & ET.

Dave, you now I like to be challenged & I like to set certain goals for my tuning. LOL! Anyway the Wild Thing 60's came up in another subject when I said the PR bikes have ran high 1.18 - low 1.20 60's. I'm going to give a more recent example of 60's. I don't not have the time slips, but Arlo (Big Bucks) has them from the most recent BAKO drags. Arlo, was pulling mid to low 1.3 60's, his opponent was pulling 1.2 60's. I'm pretty sure the one slip I saw was a 1.24. Anyway, I have never seen Wild Things or Top Fuel 300' sand 60's. I only talk about what I have personally seen or experienced. The technology has came a long way with tires & people are getting wiser to clutch tuning. Just to name a few items that's is helping the 60's & ET numbers. Maybe justwannarace (White Knuckle) will share his best 60' with their limited 650 class quad. We were talking about in the shout about a week ago. I agree, we have been 1.31-1.33 60' on our 443 gas cub with a stock frame, more than a few times. That was on a great track, we ran it at BAKO last year & the best 60' was 1.39. I don't know what's going to happen with this new motor/chassis. I know one thing, I'm more comfortable tuning with our stock frame.

I'm going to answer some questions indirectly: The majority of people run too much base pressure when using lock-ups. The 443 Cub/race gas/stock frame we ran 22x11x8 12 paddle Extremes, 22x11x8 14 paddle Haulers & 22x11x8 14 paddle Rippers The DMX/race gas/rigid chassis, all tires, but one set were 84"-85" RO. We started with 16 paddle staggered Rippers, 16 paddle Rippers, 14 Rippers & 14 extremes. The other tire was a 80" RO with 14 paddle staggered Rippers. I don't remember the specifics on the rims sizes. The dia. varied from 10", 12" & 13". On both motors we leave in 1st gear. We have a 1-4 override with manual 5 & 6. All our experience is leaving in 1st gear. So, we go with what we know.

Seeing one of my good fans brought this up, LOL! I decided to bring it to the top with a little more information. Note to myself for next subject on launch rpm, rotating inertia. Besides leaving off with the clutch spring testing tool. The last item I shared was launch rpm/limiter rpm & how it can make minor changes to the clutch. I was debating on even talking about the inertia subject. I'm not really smart on all the laws of physics, but I try to study them & apply them to racing. We like to control our launch rpm for the clutch tune, but also for the stored inertia/energy. The rotational energy of the flywheel, parts of the clutch & the motor. Can be used to tune your launch & also applies in other areas down track. We will keep it to the launch/60'. The spinning weight of all 3 items can be controlled a couple different ways & probably more. With rpm & changing the weight of the spinning items. In most situations raising the rpm launch point will initially hit the tires harder/violently. The opposite will happen for lowering the rpm. You can also adjust this with changing the weight of the rotational items. Let's take the Banshee flywheel as an example. People/builder's lighten these all the time. What happens when you do that is many different things, but for the launch. It lessens the hit at the drop of the clutch lever. You could actually increase the weight & increase the hit also. Yamaha & other's make mods for the 4 strokes to do that. While directly/indirectly related to clutch/lock-up/lock-out tuning. It does play a factor on how your quad launches/60's.

I was going through the Bakersfield time slips today. Looks like we made 33 runs in all on the new motor/chassis. I found 4 of my slips that went thru the washing process, not good. Anyway, while the BAKO drags is not considered a great track, but good. Plus, it's a great time! We do have some comparisons from last year with the 443 cub/stock frame & the new DMX/rigid chassis combo. We always spend a good majority of our time tuning our clutch, but with the new combo. We had to work on timing, fuel, tires, clutch, shift/launch rpm & other areas. We made changes darn near every pass, including eliminations. Last year with the Cub combination we worked hard to manage a best of 1.39 60' @ the event. This year, while a little more inconsistent with the 60's. We did manage low 1.40s 60's, but just missed our best at that track with the cub. Our goal with the new motor is high 1.20s 60's. I keep get reminded by the experts, that will be hard to do with the bigger motor. It was pretty hard/lots of work to get low - mid 1.30s with the little motor. Anyway, that's our goal, but this rigid chassis sure is different from the stock frame. I'm much more confident with the stock than the rigid. Hopefully that changes quickly.

I'm glad you enjoyed the link. I can only speak from experience on hill shooting, asphalt drags & 300' drags. Depending on the amount of slip you tune in & the mods done to the clutch area. Will affect how well the clutch will last. We spend most of our time tuning the clutch & it usually pays off. We have some set-ups for people that play ride, desert ride & dune. Using standard lock-ups & slingshots, they love their set-ups. These set-ups don't have anywhere near the slip the race set-ups have. I'm sure you give up a little in clutch life, but what you gain is determined by the rider's satisfaction. Here's an example: Desert/dune rider. Rider only has 2 fingers on his clutch hand. The clutch is set-up with light base pressure & the lock-up does the rest of the work. This is ideal for anyone not wanting to wear their hand out clutching. Plus, it helps keep the motor in the power band; reducing clutching. There are pros & cons to about everything in life. You have to choose what works best for you.

IMO, that's way too much clutch. When you start getting over 700cc or smaller nitrous/boosted engines you can start using that many clutch plates efficiently. 10 plates will work, but pretty hard to get slip out of them. Then you carry the penalty of accelerating that extra weight.

This should help also, the 1st 2 subjects. http://www.carbparts.com/keihin/needles_tuning/keihin_tuning.htm

We have been running the DGH needle on race gas & it works very well. We will see how it does on alky, if it's not right we will change it.

Thanks! I found that one, but for some reason the 1/4-3/4 on the right wasn't showing up.

That's pretty basic tuning, LOL!

Most leave in 2nd, but it can be done well in 1st also.

I was trying to find the needle chart in sudco for you. Not having any luck, the one I'm using is a small manual I got from them. According to their web site they have needles E, F & G that a richer in the 1/4 - 3/4 throttle. My manual only goes to the E needle. The chart also describes rich/lean in different throttle positions also.