Shane Posted October 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2005 Or could it be that the person doing the conversion has figured out a better valving than the "Fully dedicated aftermarket shock" builder. What are the limitations of an OEM shock? If the travel is the same then the only limitation is adjustability right? ( We can even increase the travel of a stock shock) If the valving is spot on then adjustability isn't really a major factor! Your opinion is probably based more on logic than experience. Logic would say that if we spend $900. to $1200. versus $285. to $450. the more expensive must be better right? I'll have to admit that I felt the same way about suspension until I got into building and converting them. Now I can safely say I'd put my converted suspension up against any aftermarket suspension. What the aftermarket suspension gains in adjustability it loses in price comparison. Thanks, Shane Set the Axis shock up for you 100%. You will be surprised. I mean nothing against anyones product, but if a fully dedicated aftermarket shock can be beat by a stock rebuild, it wasn't set up right. I have rode a Banshee set up just like mine, with the difference being Roll/Axis where I have TCS/Fireball, and the difference was like night and day. And I have the TCS rear, not a stock rebuild. Setup is everthing when it comes to suspension. 426264[/snapback] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkeyBoy Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 Nope, my judgement is based on experience. What I have rode, and what my friends have done. I have rode Old and new style Roll Arms, Fireball, Lone Star, JD Performance. Running Ohlins, Axis, TCS, Works, Elkas and stock revalves. On the Banshee, the Axis was by far the most plush (The Elkas I have ridden were never on a Banshee). They blew everything I rode clean out of the water. No bucking, no packing, no fading. They were no joke. I haven't rode your stuff, and I certainly wouldn't say it's bad, but part for part I just don't see where you can take a inferior part and make it perform better if both are dialed in. As far as price, it doesn't matter to me. I want my toys to have the best parts available. I'll just save till I can afford to buy what I want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawarriorman Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 What makes a rebuilt rear shock inferior? If he totally rebuilds it, then the only thing he's using are the shock body and shaft. Both of which have no effect on performance. The only possible benefit of a new aftermarket shock would be increased travel, but he say's thats possible rebuilding the stocker. Now if you can find some factual reason that a new aftermarket is better than a rebuilt stocker, then Im ready to listen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNBRAD Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 What makes a rebuilt rear shock inferior? If he totally rebuilds it, then the only thing he's using are the shock body and shaft. Both of which have no effect on performance. The only possible benefit of a new aftermarket shock would be increased travel, but he say's thats possible rebuilding the stocker. Now if you can find some factual reason that a new aftermarket is better than a rebuilt stocker, then Im ready to listen. 427857[/snapback] That's a good question. I also would like to know how you can take two shocks with the same internals, springs etc.. and the aftermarket body increases the performance? I've had 2 well known shock builders tell me the same performance can be had using the stock body (banshee only). Told me to save my money unless the body was in bad shape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkeyBoy Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 Larger reservior, larger shock body, more oil capacity. My TCS is all the way around larger than the stock shock. The other brands are the same. Usually I have found that the adjustments on a full aftermarket shock actually make a difference. Not so much with the rebuilds I have tried. But that was a while back. I gave up on them a few years ago. I am sure they are better now, but from a design standpoint, you are better off to start with something designed to do what you want then trying to make what you have fit the bill. You can come close, but almost never all the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squish Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 Im thinking resovoir size is a small factor. why arent they the size of a tall boy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceman Posted October 21, 2005 Report Share Posted October 21, 2005 the larger reservoir. is just gonna hold more oil thats about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkeyBoy Posted October 21, 2005 Report Share Posted October 21, 2005 Unless you are pounding on it hard, reservior size is a smaller factor. But, when you are, you have more heat dissapation with the greater surface area, more oil to break down less (more consistant valving under stress), and sometimes you can mount the reservior in a cooler spot, Yes, the effects are marginal, but they do make it better. After a good ride, feel your rezzy's. They get hot if you pound on it. That breaks down the shock oil after time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banchetta Posted October 22, 2005 Report Share Posted October 22, 2005 Everyone is talking about putting the same internals in the stock body, but you CAN'T put all the internals of a great shock in the stock body of a banshee shock. Maybe Elka and works can, but axis and ohlins can't. I've asked that question for years, rode a lot of other shees w/ different setups and once you ride a shee w/ the whole package then there is no use trying. Just spend the money. Its like buying a stock shee and then putting pipes on. YOUR ADDICTED NOW. You'll want more. The year before I had works front w/ a rebuilt stock rear. Went to the dunes hitting the whoops at the top of 4th gear. Fixitrod would go by me like I was tied off w/ his Axis setup (front and rear). Following year I went back to the dunes w/ ohlins all around. We led the pack at the top of 6th gear the whole way across 3' whoops for miles. Its took me 3 days to get the nerves to do it. I'd be at the top of 4th not believing my eyes, so then I'd hit 5th, then 6th. Whoops were coming at me so fast I couldn't believe how well the shocks were sucking them up......by the end of the week I was sold. Going back to anything else would be like someone asking you to put stock pipes back on..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelbanshee2 Posted October 22, 2005 Report Share Posted October 22, 2005 you really dont know how sweet a good suspention setup is until you ride one. I used to think my Banshe with rec. elkas was sweet..until I got a 250r with rezzied PEPS...My bro had works on his 250r for a while and didnt think they were too bad until he rode my peps...bought some TCS and its unbelievable how much more it soaks up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squish Posted October 22, 2005 Report Share Posted October 22, 2005 Unless you are pounding on it hard, reservior size is a smaller factor. But, when you are, you have more heat dissapation with the greater surface area, more oil to break down less (more consistant valving under stress), and sometimes you can mount the reservior in a cooler spot, Yes, the effects are marginal, but they do make it better. After a good ride, feel your rezzy's. They get hot if you pound on it. That breaks down the shock oil after time. 428293[/snapback] Why not make a radical heat sink resovoir with about 50 ft of braided hose you can coil up. How about a tiny co2 bottle with a trickle purge on it. Or if your rich use LH2. 12v travel fridge mounted on the back? Dry ice? Just plain ice cubes? Some hypergols? Micro fans? Heat exchanger using the gas w/recirc pump? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawarriorman Posted October 22, 2005 Report Share Posted October 22, 2005 My last thought on the subject, since everybody's mind is already made up, and not open to other options. Why on earth are you comparing Works anything to someone like PEP, Axis, TCS or whoevers new rear. Of course those companies are going to be better than anything works can put out. Send a rear to TCS or Derisi or someone like that, and then compare it to a new rear. Don't just base your comparison of rebuilt rears on something that Works gave you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNBRAD Posted October 22, 2005 Report Share Posted October 22, 2005 My last thought on the subject, since everybody's mind is already made up, and not open to other options. Why on earth are you comparing Works anything to someone like PEP, Axis, TCS or whoevers new rear. Of course those companies are going to be better than anything works can put out. Send a rear to TCS or Derisi or someone like that, and then compare it to a new rear. Don't just base your comparison of rebuilt rears on something that Works gave you. 428579[/snapback] Guess you never heard of the works black widows and pro g series shocks. My understanding is they have the best technology in atv suspension at this time with those new shocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banchetta Posted October 23, 2005 Report Share Posted October 23, 2005 My last thought on the subject, since everybody's mind is already made up, and not open to other options. Why on earth are you comparing Works anything to someone like PEP, Axis, TCS or whoevers new rear. Of course those companies are going to be better than anything works can put out. Send a rear to TCS or Derisi or someone like that, and then compare it to a new rear. Don't just base your comparison of rebuilt rears on something that Works gave you. 428579[/snapback] To answer your question is that I tried and they said they could not make a stock shock as good as their own....thats why everyone keeps mentioning works and elkas. Only certain companies will build a stock shock and say its just as good as the real thing. If someone thinks they can build a stock shock to be just as good as my ohlins or other peoples axis, then send me a set and I'll give my full report on them. I'll be going to Glamis this Feb and will test a set out. I'm not brand specific, but I do give my opinions good and bad about any product I've ever tested either in the field or on the dyno. Everything I learned is from my own experience, not from what others say....Everyone that has met me knows that I'll dial them in before testing so it will be accurate. I've done a lot of questioning, testing and research on this subject and would love to find a stock shock w/ superior valving for other hq'ers..as well as myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squish Posted October 23, 2005 Report Share Posted October 23, 2005 My last thought on the subject, since everybody's mind is already made up, and not open to other options. Why on earth are you comparing Works anything to someone like PEP, Axis, TCS or whoevers new rear. Of course those companies are going to be better than anything works can put out. Send a rear to TCS or Derisi or someone like that, and then compare it to a new rear. Don't just base your comparison of rebuilt rears on something that Works gave you. 428579[/snapback] Who sent there rear shock to works? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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