jay shafer Posted December 3, 2010 Report Share Posted December 3, 2010 Andy at M&M just said that calvin is making the serval and wampus in all stroke combinations!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKheathen Posted December 3, 2010 Report Share Posted December 3, 2010 wounder how the numbers would be with 28mm carbs and Paul Tuners mids. just an educated guess, but i believe ptr mids would just choke it down..... on another note... thank you for the work on these cyls. just found out they are coming in all different stroke combinations, not sure about the bores, though. we've been talking and hoping it would happen soon. never expected to hear about it so soon, though anyways, i do have one question....... would it be possible to get a set un-plated? i know i'm not the only one that gets realy turned off by the nicasil plating. and, if it could save on manufacturing costs, and maybe pass a litte savings on, then we could sleeve it. i had, and still have cash-in-hand, but decided not to impulse-buy once i thought about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68chevyc10355 Posted December 3, 2010 Report Share Posted December 3, 2010 just an educated guess, but i believe ptr mids would just choke it down..... on another note... thank you for the work on these cyls. just found out they are coming in all different stroke combinations, not sure about the bores, though. we've been talking and hoping it would happen soon. never expected to hear about it so soon, though anyways, i do have one question....... would it be possible to get a set un-plated? i know i'm not the only one that gets realy turned off by the nicasil plating. and, if it could save on manufacturing costs, and maybe pass a litte savings on, then we could sleeve it. i had, and still have cash-in-hand, but decided not to impulse-buy once i thought about it. Just out of curiousity, what do you have against nikasil? Is it just the fact that if something goes wrong that it has to be replated instead of getting a clean-up bore? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingsley Posted December 3, 2010 Report Share Posted December 3, 2010 For me its all about the low/mid grunt, everything on top is a bonus.... I agree for the guy out there that have to pay to build a 7mm serval would be almost a waste to make 5hp+ or so more, unless you know some people, because it will be lots of work and money for that extra few hp, 7mm crank, porting and maybe decking depending what durations you want.... BUT the torque curve will be even smoother and wider... I do my own work, cut my own heads, porting etc.... there was something that changed my life "LOW AND WIDE" on a high transfer.... We are looking into decking the serval to keep the exhaust port low and the transfers under 130s, not sure what the deck height of the stock serval is or base gasket, but putting a 7mm in there with -1.5mm deck height will bring the transfers to about 130.7degrees... With 0.5mm shave of the bottom you should be in the 128s.... I also think with the extra 3mm stroke, pro circuits etc this thing will torque like a train... I will try my best to put it on a Dynojet with stock carbs and 33s, just to see what she make..... For me its almost more fun building these things then riding them.... If it was not for the servals, I would have decked a 7mm cheetah cub.... Its all about the fun..... If you were to take a 4mm serval,run the 7mm crank, no base gasket and cut domes, Would that be what you would work with? If im right, does this efectivly raise the ports on the serval and increase the RPM level when the torque comes in or does it over come the issue with the extra 3mm on the stroke? Reason for asking is that i will be running that combination with 34mm carbys, +4timing and FMF fattys with 22cc domes. Just awaiting the cut domes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2strokespirit Posted December 4, 2010 Report Share Posted December 4, 2010 If you were to take a 4mm serval,run the 7mm crank, no base gasket and cut domes, Would that be what you would work with? If im right, does this efectivly raise the ports on the serval and increase the RPM level when the torque comes in or does it over come the issue with the extra 3mm on the stroke? Reason for asking is that i will be running that combination with 34mm carbys, +4timing and FMF fattys with 22cc domes. Just awaiting the cut domes. [/quote No, you will still have to lower the ports as well, yes it will increase exh and transfer duration without touching the port roofs and only lower the bottoms. Yes it does "increase the rpm level when the power begins" (depending on setup etc) But this can also be done by changing the blow down... I will rather keep ports low and wide as possible (185 - 192) 70 - 75% exh width depending on your application and amount of ring wear that is exceptable... Drag racg is waaaay different, you want lots of time area and duration, durations alone means nothing.... But one can get a fair idea of whats going on when getting them... This has now all changed, order the 7mms, when I was ready to buy the 4mms, Jeff informed me that there are 7mms on the way!!!!!! So no decking or porting anymore, will just clean up the casting flaws and maybe increase time area here and there, but first I want it in my hand to see what everything stock measures up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Go-Fast Posted December 5, 2010 Report Share Posted December 5, 2010 (edited) If you were to take a 4mm serval,run the 7mm crank, no base gasket and cut domes...... I check a few of these sites out from time to time, and when I saw the questions asked in this post, (and where you were from), I recognized a question that I had worked quite a while on with one of my dealers very recently, (actually I think it was Friday). The side view that I am attaching should show the use of a 4mill Serval cylinder with a 7mill crank, the port durations are shown at the top of the page when using a .012 gasket, and when using no gasket and sealing the cylinder down. Actually, the port timings are very close to where they will be when the 7mill Serval is finished. Hope this helps, Calvin Pollet Sideview of CPI-S6861P_Special_Serval_Cub .pdf I guess this site does not allow opening of "pdf" files on the screen, so you will need to download the file....sorry Edited December 5, 2010 by 2Go-Fast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RZBansheeMan Posted December 5, 2010 Report Share Posted December 5, 2010 I check a few of these sites out from time to time, and when I saw the questions asked in this post, (and where you were from), I recognized a question that I had worked quite a while on with one of my dealers very recently, (actually I think it was Friday). The side view that I am attaching should show the use of a 4mill Serval cylinder with a 7mill crank, the port durations are shown at the top of the page when using a .012 gasket, and when using no gasket and sealing the cylinder down. Actually, the port timings are very close to where they will be when the 7mill Serval is finished. Hope this helps, Calvin Pollet Hey Calvin, I have been curious to know if the Servals will ever have the power valve option or not. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Go-Fast Posted December 5, 2010 Report Share Posted December 5, 2010 I have been curious to know if the Servals will ever have the power valve option or not. The Serval cylinder uses the banshee head layout, and that bolt pattern has a head bolt directly in front of each bore, so there is no way to use a power valve with that head bolt pattern....so, no, would be the answer to whether the Servals will ever have a power valve......sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2strokespirit Posted December 5, 2010 Report Share Posted December 5, 2010 I check a few of these sites out from time to time, and when I saw the questions asked in this post, (and where you were from), I recognized a question that I had worked quite a while on with one of my dealers very recently, (actually I think it was Friday). The side view that I am attaching should show the use of a 4mill Serval cylinder with a 7mill crank, the port durations are shown at the top of the page when using a .012 gasket, and when using no gasket and sealing the cylinder down. Actually, the port timings are very close to where they will be when the 7mill Serval is finished. Hope this helps, Calvin Pollet Sideview of CPI-S6861P_Special_Serval_Cub .pdf I guess this site does not allow opening of "pdf" files on the screen, so you will need to download the file....sorry I Calvin, that was probably for me.... I was in the process of buying servals to go 7mm from a good dealer here.... :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingsley Posted December 5, 2010 Report Share Posted December 5, 2010 I check a few of these sites out from time to time, and when I saw the questions asked in this post, (and where you were from), I recognized a question that I had worked quite a while on with one of my dealers very recently, (actually I think it was Friday). The side view that I am attaching should show the use of a 4mill Serval cylinder with a 7mill crank, the port durations are shown at the top of the page when using a .012 gasket, and when using no gasket and sealing the cylinder down. Actually, the port timings are very close to where they will be when the 7mill Serval is finished. Hope this helps, Calvin Pollet Sideview of CPI-S6861P_Special_Serval_Cub .pdf I guess this site does not allow opening of "pdf" files on the screen, so you will need to download the file....sorry Hi Calvin. I believe the question i have asked here is directly related to the time that you spent on Friday for a 7mm crank in a 4mm serval. My reason for asking the question was to gain more of an understanding of the outcome of this combination. I am reasonably new to the performance workings of a 2 stroke. After looking at your PDF file. I notice the exhaust timing is practically exactly the same as the 4mm with 186.3 but the main transfer (inlet ports?) open fully at 3deg later. Again not knowing much on this subject. How different will the result be? My guess is that the torque will be slightly later in the RPM. Is the difference in torque delivery mostly noticed when the inlets are adjusted or when the exhaust is adjusted? Obviously this combination will be different to a 4mm set up as the torque and HP will change again because of the 7mm stroke and i may not even notice a difference or see more. At the end of the day, i came from a poor designed 66.5mm bore with a 4mm crank and running 22cc banshee domes with blaster pistons. The combination was all wrong but i was very happy with performance i had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKheathen Posted December 6, 2010 Report Share Posted December 6, 2010 3 reasons i'm against nicasil....- it's 3-4x as much to repair. yes, you loose bores. and, i was told how a coolant leak can blast the plating off. i know it definately has it's advantages, but running cylinders outside drag-type use, and normal level of attention put into such machines, sleved cylinders are the best option, imho. most of the time, any kind of failure can be repaired by anywhere from simple bore, to re-sleve. usually, that's like $100-$200 at worst, and free, at best... about the 7mill, i was hoping to be able to see less durration with 4mill cyls.....oh, well. and, that +3 blow-down is going to narrow the powerband a bit, given the widths remain to keeping relative time/area. however, the extra stroke and trapped compression will make up for that on the lower side, but power should increase in the top-mid and up. correct me if i'm off, but that's what i see happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajogejr Posted December 6, 2010 Report Share Posted December 6, 2010 I'm gonna put my 2 cents in...even though I know this is not a plated vs. cast iron discussion. AK... I've smoked two pistons in 5 years on my current 10 mil cub. After 4 seasons of a TON of passes, it was finally time to replate my cylinder. I just smoked another piston...and the plating is fine. Your argument could go both ways. If you smoke a piston with plating, most of the time you run a hone through it and throw a new slug in, no down time. If you blow a piston with cast iron, you remove it...bore it, hone it...get a larger piston for BOTH sides...etc. I agree, IF the plating goes, it's expensive. Plating is around 250 give or take. Bore job and new pistons are about the same... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Limit Powersports Posted December 6, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2010 Nicasil has some major advantages that i feel you are overlooking that can imo out way its disadvantages. #1 you never loose bores so effectively you never wear out a cylinder. #2 it is way harder than any sleeve so time intervals between replating vs boring is much much greater. #3 Less friction nicasil has better friction reducing properties than steel does so it can effectively make more power. #4 and i think one of its best characteristics is that is tough. I cant tell you how many cubs i beat the pistons out of and the plating is fine. #5 Aluminum piston on a steel sleeve as we all know expands at different rates so with the plating there is less of a chance for a cold siezure or any siezure for that matter. I think the numbers that we got figured on your cylinder will make it a broader tq curve than the 4mm would have made. When calvin casts the 7mm serval cylinder the blowdown will probably be a little less but these are really good numbers. The added stroke will broaden the tq curve threw out. Let me know if you need anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tecateman Posted December 9, 2010 Report Share Posted December 9, 2010 are the 10 mil servals gonna be close in price to the 4 mil? i mean just the cylinders. i know the crank and all will be more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingsley Posted December 12, 2010 Report Share Posted December 12, 2010 Is there enough meat in the water gallorys to drill and tap a temp sender or even case a spot there for future barrels? IS this a good place to put it apart from the top hose with a joiner fitting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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