STATOR MODS!

[banshenstein]

SINCE THE STATOR MAKES YOUR SPARK AND WITH THE OLD SAYING MORE FIRE-AIR-FUEL..... MORE HP! IS THERE ANY WAY TO BEEF UP THE STATOR? OR MAYBE REPLACE IT WITH ANOTHER STATOR OFF ANOTHER ATV TO GIVE IT MORE SPARK?

[lmaloch]

SINCE THE STATOR MAKES YOUR SPARK AND WITH THE OLD SAYING MORE FIRE-AIR-FUEL..... MORE HP! IS THERE ANY WAY TO BEEF UP THE STATOR? OR MAYBE REPLACE IT WITH ANOTHER STATOR OFF ANOTHER ATV TO GIVE IT MORE SPARK?

 

 

Your post makes my head hurt.....

 

 

 

 

 

Try the search feature. There is plenty of info on stators.

[ISSUES]

Your post makes my head hurt.....

 

 

 

 

 

Try the search feature. There is plenty of info on stators.

2x that.

 

 

You could rewnd the ignition coil on the stator with the same gauge wire or a little smaller . By adding more winds to the poles would create high voltage, Higher voltage would create more spark.

Edited November 19, 2009 by ISSUES

[bansheesandrider]

I don't know that beefing the ignition windings in the stator will actually increase the spark because there is no direct connection between the stator and the coil- everything goes from the stator to the CDI box and then the CDI box sends a signal to the coil. I think that regardless of how much power the CDI box "sees" from the stator, it sends the same signal based on RPM to the coil. If you want a hotter spark you need to get a better COIL, either the Nology unit or the Dyna coil or possibly the MSD setup.

Edited November 19, 2009 by bansheesandrider

[ISSUES]

Actually the high voltage that the stator puts out goes to capacitors in the CDI, and that voltage will be boost and then sent to the coil and then boosted again.

 

Here is some goode reading material on CDI from http://www.jetav8r.com/Vision/Ignition/CDI.html

 

 

CDI ("Capacitive Discharge Ignition)

 

Commercial development of CDI happened around the mid 60's. Up till then it was regarded as worthless and even dangerous. Well.. the dangerous part is somewhat right as you will see. If your really bored here's a 1965 Danish sketch of an early CDI design and the bike it was tested on (a 90cc Kawasaki motorcycle). Automotive CDI was pioneered mainly by Bosch in Europe. In 1979 they introduced the "Bosch Motronic". Today we see a variety of names to include: Ford's TFI (Thick Film Integrated), GM's HEI (High Energy Ignition), DIS (Distributorless Ignition System), ECU (electronic control unit), and many others.

 

CDI ignition is most widely used today on automotive and marine engines. A CDI module has "capacitor" storage of its own and sends a short high voltage (about 250+ volts) pulse through the coil. The coil now acts more like a transformer (instead of a storage inductor) and multiplies this voltage even higher. Modern CDI coils step up the voltage about 100:1. So, a typical 250v CDI module output is stepped up to over 25,000v output from the coil. The CDI output voltage of course can be higher. So you'll see CDI systems claiming coil output capability over 40,000-60,000 volts!!? As you will see this is not exactly what happens at the plug but for math purposes it works out. The huge advantage of CDI is the higher coil output and "hotter" spark. The spark duration is much shorter (about 10-12 microseconds) and accurate. This is better at high RPM but can be a problem for both starting and/or lean mixture/high compression situations. CDI systems can and do use "low" resistance coils.

 

 

Again.... the differences Kettering (TCI) vs CDI

 

With the Kettering Induction ignition design, the coils are powered all the time at 12 volts and are commanded to collapse to spark by the ignition module. Here, the ignition module disconnects the primary winding coil ground. The coil secondary winding collapses to spark at about 30,000 volts. In the CDI design, the coils are not powered. They receive a short high (250 volt) pulse from the ignition module and then amplify that (100:1) to a much larger voltage spike (about 40,000 volts) . Since the potential output of a CDI coil can be over 40,000 volts you have stickers all over your engine bay reminding you that: This can KILL you!!

 

 

 

 

 

Advantages / Disadvantages of Electronic Ignition

 

The advantages of solid state are numerous but the big one is : "no moving" parts. This should translate to control and reliability impossible to achieve in any mechanical system. The term "engine tune-up" is nearly meaningless with respect to modern ignition systems. Outside of replacing plugs and inspecting wiring there is not much else to do. More than a few mechanic shops exploit the public misunderstanding of modern engines. Having said that, the disadvantage of electronic ignition is simply reliability.

 

A desktop computer circuit board should last a LONG time in theory, and yet you know quite clearly it does not sometimes. Ignitions have suffered the same evolution of making electronics that can stand the test of time. Early ignition systems were particularly prone to "component" breakdown. Anyone who has owned an older British sports cars will understand the term "the dark Lord of Lucas" (Lucas Electronics were notorious for their failure).

 

Solid state components are particularly sensitive to heat, thermal stress, vibration, moisture, and power surges (basically, everything an engine is about). So, great strides have been made to beef up and improve CDI reliability. These include things like:

 

Improved cooling and heat sinks

Epoxy resin or Epoxy-rubber encasing components so they can't get wet

Using separate ignition modules for each plug (so a single failure won't kill the whole engine). This concept was first exploited in outboards where each plug has a separate "power pack". Power pack failures were a big problem in the outboard industry for awhile and not funny when you are 60 miles from land in a small sport fisherman with 1 engine.

Heavier duty components that can withstand the heat, vibration, and "duty cycles".

 

 

 

 

 

What's Better? Induction -or- CDI?

 

Clearly, CDI is being used for most all modern auto / motorcycle / marine applications. It is also the choice for most high rpm race engines. This is simply due to the ability to fine tune all aspects of the combustion process electronically. Where simplicity and reliability is a factor, induction systems have an advantage. That is why you see them most often in aircraft engines. High revving RPM control is not the emphasis but rather reliability. The longer spark duration of induction systems gives a better chance that combustion WILL take place! Anyone who has ever flown at night over mountainous terrain and has heard "auto-rough" knows what I'm talking about here.

[bansheesandrider]

I guess I didn't clearly state my point- your money and time would be better spent on a high output coil instead of a stator mod that might burn up a CDI box.

[banshenstein]

I guess I didn't clearly state my point- your money and time would be better spent on a high output coil instead of a stator mod that might burn up a CDI box.

where could i find the coils?

[banshenstein]

on the msd coil.... should i get just the coil or would it be worth me getting the kit? with the new cdi, coil, ignition enhancer, nicad battery. http://www.msdpowersports.com/atv_yamahabanshee.html <this site will take you to it let me know!

[bansheesandrider]

on the msd coil.... should i get just the coil or would it be worth me getting the kit? with the new cdi, coil, ignition enhancer, nicad battery. http://www.msdpowersports.com/atv_yamahabanshee.html <this site will take you to it let me know!

From what I know about the MSD setup, you need to use the complete system. The drawback to it on a trail bike is that it is battery powered and the battery only lasts about two hours, so you would have to have a charger and one or two spare batteries. I think MSD made it for race guys at a track, not for going out trail riding. You can get the Nology coil from FAST, he is a site sponsor on here. You can get the DYNA coil from DYNA Technologies or on Ebay, there is a seller named ATV Galaxy that normally has one listed.

[AKheathen]

I don't know that beefing the ignition windings in the stator will actually increase the spark because there is no direct connection between the stator and the coil- everything goes from the stator to the CDI box and then the CDI box sends a signal to the coil. I think that regardless of how much power the CDI box "sees" from the stator, it sends the same signal based on RPM to the coil. If you want a hotter spark you need to get a better COIL, either the Nology unit or the Dyna coil or possibly the MSD setup.

x2...and i'm not reading through that big copy/paste looking post that i just skimmed through. yes, it is a capacitance discharge ignition, but it does have limitations, just like a battery. it will only store the rated amount of energy, with a little room to spare. that amount of energy is, however, much less than what the stock stator will produce under normal operation, and it bypasses, or shorts the excess, much like the voltage regulator does. when you begain trying to boost the power from the stator, it only has to dispose of that much more current, excessively straining the cdis' pcb and transistors. once that circuit reaches the point of max capacity, it not only bulds heat/resistance, but starts tearing down the capacitors, and you eventually end up with dry connections, diminished spark capacity, etc....for exaple, ricky stator has begain overwinding the ignition side of their stators, as is evident by the different readings, and you can find plenty of info on thier problems. if you want greater spark energy, you have to do as previously mentioned and replace the cdi with one like a dyna, which has a greater storage capacity and delivery circuits, and/or install a better coil. both of which simply utilize more of the abundant energy from the good old factory stator windings.

 

ok, i lied....i just read it........you seem to have swept all thaught of curent under the rug, and sound about 30years behind the times.......i have personally felt 90,000v from a 12v ignition coil powered by an ecu, as well as the 35k, 40k, 60k, etc from many different ignition systems. i would, however not bet my life or take any chances on a 300v injector circuit, as it delivers actuall tangable amounts of current. and, i dare you to find a coil that sticks to the 100:1 ratio. that figure is just used as an example to show the math, not the literal rating. the thing about the higher energy coils, such as the nology coils is the sheer current it is capible of passing to maintain the higher voltage through the copleted circuit, which is the reason it includes the proprietary grounding strap following the wires...........since the development of the "micro" components in the late 80's all of the most common problems, mainly changed value, have all but disappeard, leaving only the issues of voltage spiking and physical damage, but that's another subject.

[jbooker82]

Awe man am I going to have to charge my banshee before I can go riding.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would just get a nology coil with hot wires, and run non resistor plugs.

[fastbanshee8]

From what I know about the MSD setup, you need to use the complete system. The drawback to it on a trail bike is that it is battery powered and the battery only lasts about two hours, so you would have to have a charger and one or two spare batteries. I think MSD made it for race guys at a track, not for going out trail riding. You can get the Nology coil from FAST, he is a site sponsor on here. You can get the DYNA coil from DYNA Technologies or on Ebay, there is a seller named ATV Galaxy that normally has one listed.

 

 

I've had the MSD setup for about 5 years now, and it's great. They make a charger that plugs in between the stator, and the battery. It will charge the battery, as long as the RPMs are above 3,500. The only bad thing is, you have to unplug the battery, when the bike isn't running, or it will slowly drain it.

[AKheathen]

I've had the MSD setup for about 5 years now, and it's great. They make a charger that plugs in between the stator, and the battery. It will charge the battery, as long as the RPMs are above 3,500. The only bad thing is, you have to unplug the battery, when the bike isn't running, or it will slowly drain it.

just an idea..........if you still have a keyswitch, there is an unused circuit there that you can wire to the charger.....have to check to make sure it works the same, can't remember..

[fastbanshee8]

I did away with the key switch, but I'm going to install a hidden switch, so I can just turn it off, without unhooking the battery.

[misterww225]

The CDI is charged by the stator. More specifically, a capacitor within the CDI is charged. When this capacitor is discharged into the coil the energy within the capacitor transfers to the coil, creating a spark. The energy within a capacitor is E=1/2 CV^2. Simply stated, the energy in a capacitor is only a linear function of the capacitor value, however, the energy in a capacitor is the SQUARE of the voltage. This means even a small increase in the stator voltage will dramatically increase the energy discharged into the coil and transferred to the spark plug. Therefore, just a few more turns on the stator will dramatically increase the spark energy. On the other hand, the capacitor has a voltage limitation when it begins to break down and dissipate energy in the form of heat and gradually degrade, eventually failing. A modest increase in the stator windings, I.E. voltage, can retain a reliable CDI system while increasing spark performance.