RIPPEN Posted December 11, 2008 Report Share Posted December 11, 2008 I think the original everything was lost about 5 pages ago..lol I was just tryin to expand on the idea that a properly setup/ported stock cylinder bike can throw down on these types of climbs just as well if not better than what you guys are describing.. I realize that different guys like different setups.. To each his own.. At least you (Pacific) don't come across as quite the know it all.. Shifting gears again here.. Any you climbing boys got any pics or vid to share? RIPPEN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanYE west Posted December 11, 2008 Report Share Posted December 11, 2008 [u]dude if you think that cub cylinders are drag cylinders you need to seriously go re-evaluate what is out there. Just because they are ported the way they are out of the castings does not make them drag cylinders.[/u] Calvin developed these cyclenders for bolt on performance not as drag set up They were intially built as an idea that friends of his from glamis area that have play bikes wanted more power for ridding in the big sand. Hence why the cub is not made in any version bigger than 68mm bore. Sure drag ported cylinders sacrafice bottom end but there is more to factor in besides porting, like bore, stroke, timing and compression. To compare a 68 bore X 68 stroke cub motor to a set of drag ported stock cylinders is just not in the cards, Those 2 motors do not run alike or make even close to the same power curve. I think this is where the problem started... The port durations on the cub are Drag port spec out of the box. Sure.. you can drop the exhaust by decking the base.. but... now your putting more time, labor and $$$ into a already more expsensive setup. Porting is the heart of the motor.. You use timing and compression to compliment the porting. Drag ported cylinders sacrafice bottom end.. (as stated above) Why build a motor with less bottom end just to try and add it back with pipes, timing and compression? Like RIPPEN said.. And I agree, I think this is what most of us are trying to say. "I think the simple fact that Dave is trying to make is that a stock cyl ported 4mill remotly set up right can run up to what your getting out of a "piped down" cub.. " On a side note.. I've heard a rumor.. not sure if there is any truth to this or not.. but.. I heard that Dan hull AKA A&S racing.. Helped design the port layout on the cubs with Calvin. Anyone who knows who Dan Hull is knows what his main goal is..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PACIFIC NW BANSHEE Posted December 11, 2008 Report Share Posted December 11, 2008 I think the original everything was lost about 5 pages ago..lol I was just tryin to expand on the idea that a properly setup/ported stock cylinder bike can throw down on these types of climbs just as well if not better than what you guys are describing.. I realize that different guys like different setups.. To each his own.. At least you (Pacific) don't come across as quite the know it all.. Shifting gears again here.. Any you climbing boys got any pics or vid to share? RIPPEN I here yah it has been lost .And you are correct they work i have had a few of them the problem for me i can never go back i have all ready gone over to the dark side .Not any good pics cant get anybody to take the good action shots if you would like to check out some good pics none of me just a taste of what we have to ride here http://www.out4sand.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIPPEN Posted December 11, 2008 Report Share Posted December 11, 2008 I here yah it has been lost .And you are correct they work i have had a few of them the problem for me i can never go back i have all ready gone over to the dark side .Not any good pics cant get anybody to take the good action shots if you would like to check out some good pics none of me just a taste of what we have to ride here http://www.out4sand.com/ Ah your killin me man, making me have to dig-lol... From what I just looked at it looks pretty sweet and very similar to what we got.. I am guessing some of your guys stuff is just a bit taller.. Iam sure in the future there will be plenty of pics and such exchanged.. I finaly have gotten into the habit of getting a fair amount of footage and pics.. Oh and as for Idaho, I have been twice and I agree.. The place is the SHIT! RIPPEN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRed350x Posted December 11, 2008 Report Share Posted December 11, 2008 get stock cylinders DUNE PORTED stock bore and stroke to 80hp??......hmm sounds fishy.... I've got one. :biggrin: Just depends on what fuel you want to run. :biggrin: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PACIFIC NW BANSHEE Posted December 11, 2008 Report Share Posted December 11, 2008 I think this is where the problem started... The port durations on the cub are Drag port spec out of the box. Sure.. you can drop the exhaust by decking the base.. but... now your putting more time, labor and $$$ into a already more expsensive setup. Porting is the heart of the motor.. You use timing and compression to compliment the porting. Drag ported cylinders sacrafice bottom end.. (as stated above) Why build a motor with less bottom end just to try and add it back with pipes, timing and compression? Like RIPPEN said.. And I agree, I think this is what most of us are trying to say. "I think the simple fact that Dave is trying to make is that a stock cyl ported 4mill remotly set up right can run up to what your getting out of a "piped down" cub.. " On a side note.. I've heard a rumor.. not sure if there is any truth to this or not.. but.. I heard that Dan hull AKA A&S racing.. Helped design the port layout on the cubs with Calvin. Anyone who knows who Dan Hull is knows what his main goal is..... the bikes dont have any bottom end from the word go my bike does third gear hole shots .I could never build a bike with a dune port that is going to have the bottom end i do + hp .I guarantee you a mild build like somwhere between 400 to 420 with a duneport aint keepin up with me. And yes if you build a bike with cubs pt that it is going come off the line faster you have to get to the top end to use the power it would be a equal race .My friend has the blaster piston set up and a 4 mil and dune port with pt he can keep up with the the guys running 4 mils with cpi .But the truth is beign done everday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRed350x Posted December 11, 2008 Report Share Posted December 11, 2008 (edited) Holy crap! I gave up half-way through page 3. This whole argument has been done before. Quite a few times actually. Its all just in what you want to do with it and what YOU think is best. Who cares if you have a super-tard cylinder with jew pipes and herkamer fudd carbs or joe-blow cylinders and couch cushions for silencers. If it does what you want and you have fun riding it... who cares!?! The weirdest thing I ever tried was a K&T drag ported stock stroke cub cylinder that I put on a 4mil longrod crank with offset 17cc domes, T5's and 33mm carbs. It was one of the funest bikes I ever had and I wish I never sold it. It wasn't the fastest or most powerful thing out there, but it was fun to ride. It had the hit that the original drag cylinders did, but it hit in the midrange instead of up on top. Using the stock height cylinders with a 4mil without re-adjusting the porting was a long stretch, but worked and was pretty fun to ride. I've got a stock cylinder 4mil Gorr ported bike with 38's and shearers that will put a hurtin on a LOT of cub drag bikes and cheetah drag bikes. and its my little duner! If you want to get all competitive I have a 612cc big block twister that did some high 80's up sand mountain. It all just depends on what you like to do and what you think works best for you. Some of these arguments get out of hand. Edited December 11, 2008 by BigRed350x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanYE west Posted December 11, 2008 Report Share Posted December 11, 2008 the bikes dont have any bottom end from the word go my bike does third gear hole shots .I could never build a bike with a dune port that is going to have the bottom end i do + hp .I guarantee you a mild build like somwhere between 400 to 420 with a duneport aint keepin up with me. And yes if you build a bike with cubs pt that it is going come off the line faster you have to get to the top end to use the power it would be a equal race .My friend has the blaster piston set up and a 4 mil and dune port with pt he can keep up with the the guys running 4 mils with cpi .But the truth is beign done everday Yeah.. I can see your friend gettin beat... when you use BB sleeves in stock cylinders you choke down the transfers which REALLY hurts the power... If you guys happen to have some dyno's of your guys setups, I'd really like to see them and compare curves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PACIFIC NW BANSHEE Posted December 11, 2008 Report Share Posted December 11, 2008 (edited) Yeah.. I can see your friend gettin beat... when you use BB sleeves in stock cylinders you choke down the transfers which REALLY hurts the power... If you guys happen to have some dyno's of your guys setups, I'd really like to see them and compare curves. he does not lose to often Edited December 11, 2008 by PACIFIC NW BANSHEE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanYE west Posted December 11, 2008 Report Share Posted December 11, 2008 he does not lose to often Sorry, I misread that.. I thought I saw (can't) keep up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiz Posted December 11, 2008 Report Share Posted December 11, 2008 (edited) Holy crap! I gave up half-way through page 3. This whole argument has been done before. Quite a few times actually. Its all just in what you want to do with it and what YOU think is best. Who cares if you have a super-tard cylinder with jew pipes and herkamer fudd carbs or joe-blow cylinders and couch cushions for silencers. If it does what you want and you have fun riding it... who cares!?! The weirdest thing I ever tried was a K&T drag ported stock stroke cub cylinder that I put on a 4mil longrod crank with offset 17cc domes, T5's and 33mm carbs. It was one of the funest bikes I ever had and I wish I never sold it. It wasn't the fastest or most powerful thing out there, but it was fun to ride. It had the hit that the original drag cylinders did, but it hit in the midrange instead of up on top. Using the stock height cylinders with a 4mil without re-adjusting the porting was a long stretch, but worked and was pretty fun to ride. I've got a stock cylinder 4mil Gorr ported bike with 38's and shearers that will put a hurtin on a LOT of cub drag bikes and cheetah drag bikes. and its my little duner! If you want to get all competitive I have a 612cc big block twister that did some high 80's up sand mountain. It all just depends on what you like to do and what you think works best for you. Some of these arguments get out of hand. very well said..... my Patriot 4mil cub was set up about exactly like that, I was using a little shorter dome, 33's and t-5's and that bike was a kick in the ass to ride. My new motor is running a little more top end but still has that bottom and mid range power. I am a fat ass and needed more power... my point through this whole arguement has been you can take a cub motor with casting clean-ups no porting and make a great dune bike out of it.... alot of people have done it and will contiue to do it, they are a cheap way to get into the small stroker or big bore market with the capability to make them run how you want weather it be a drag set up or a play set-up Edited December 11, 2008 by Wiz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajogejr Posted December 11, 2008 Report Share Posted December 11, 2008 To be honest I don't really see what the big debate is.. I think the simple fact that Dave is trying to make is that a stock cyl ported 4mill remotly set up right can run up to what your getting out of a "piped down" cub.. Thank you....I was beginning to think I was speaking a foreign language Not to rain on your parade but the price of the bike has nothing to do with how well the bike runs....Don't throw the $12k price tag in the argument..... X2. If they increased the price of that bike by 3 grand but put 22 inch chrome spoke rims, does that mean they know even more or build them even better. Price.....has nothing to do with it, especially when you bling the shit out of it. Oh by the way i think you math is off a little 58x68=421 and 64x75= 565 i think you must have got it crossed up with mine but my math could be off ?? Well...since this whole conversation has been about cubs, let's see. 58X68 (4 mil cub) is 421, 64X68 (10 mil cub) is 465...and let me get my calculator out here. Carry the 1....ah...yes. 465-421 is...tada....44. If that motor in that one bike isn't a cub...I didn't notice...if it was a DM or DMX or other large bore, that's not exactly what we've been talking about all along...right? MY WHOLE point all along is sure, you can detune and choke the fuck out of a cylinder meant to run, and breathe ....and make it do the same as a nicely ported stock set of cylinders. But what's the point? That's like me saying (and yes, this is the drag racer in me talking) Well...I really could've run a 3.9 with my setup, but...I figured I'd detune it, break a clutch or two...and only run 4.8s...cause that's how they set them up around here. NW...you wrote a while back, purpose built bike. I agree with that 100%. I disagree with both of you how to arrive at that purpose.... Wiz....I've read most of your posts...and most of them seem like you're trying to stir shit. And I AM NOT THE ONLY one saying that.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtfreak Posted December 11, 2008 Report Share Posted December 11, 2008 remember the saying when in doubt gas it.thats what i think, make it as fast as you can and dont be a pussy ride it.i have all my life been trying to make all my shit faster,i can not see restricting power in any situation but thats just me.im the guy that would want the big hit on top just for the excitement in the ride.weather or not it made it to the top of the hill ,i would want the extra excitement during the hill.i dont like predictable easy to ride shit if i did i would be riding a 400ex.but i guess we all have choices/options and i guess thats what keep the retailers in business ,all the options,something out there for every one.just be thankful you dont have to run a restrictor plate like in nascar or some bull shit like that.if these guys want to build cubs and restrict them cause they cant handle the power they produce so be it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilarious Posted December 11, 2008 Report Share Posted December 11, 2008 id throw some shearers on that cub engine. they compliment that explosive light switch powerband perfectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertdeweller Posted December 11, 2008 Report Share Posted December 11, 2008 (edited) I got a little lost too. so a 12 mil cub motor with drag port and stock pipes will work for mx and tight woods? If not why? j/k :biggrin: Edited December 11, 2008 by desertdeweller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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