rjvoight

God is righteous, holy and just. His word says the wages of sin is death. We have all sinned and are condemed to death. God being holy righteous and just can not be in the presence of those who are unrighteous, unjust and unholy which all of us are. His very nature would destroy us because the wage of sin is death. Other attributes of God are Mercy and Love. Because he first loved us, he sent his only son to die as a one time ultimate sacrifice for all of our sin, thus satisfying the sin = death law the righteous holy and just God established. God's just punishment for our sin was poured out on His Son, Jesus. Because God is righteous, holy and just, he could not just change the holy and just rules he established. God is the same yesterday, today and tommorow. The price for our sin had to be paid, yet we are unable to pay that price. We are all guilty of sin. The punishment is death. No matter how much God loves us, because he is a Righteous judge, he had to bring down the gavel and sentence us to death. But because he loves us, he was willing to step off the throne in heaven, through Jesus and pay the price for us. I did not list scripture this time, partially because of a lack of time and partially because many of the scriptures I would use have been posted here already. Holy, if you have a different veiw, I would be very interested in what you believe in regard to your own question. My Bible: New American Standard RJV PS Had to work graveyard over the Holiday weekend and took the wife and friends to the Dunes for an awsome day of riding yesterday. Nothing like being out with good friends riding on the open dunes in the sunshine to remind me just how good God has been to me. Take care everyone.

I just spent 2 days in Glamis with the wifes Raptor ( i left the Banshee at home cus I was afraid it would be to hot and just boil over). After that experiance, I am so glad I bought a shee instead of a Raptor or YFZ or 450R. there is nothing like it. RJV

1 John First John: 1:5-7 - Walk in the Light 5)and this is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is light, and in him there is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth, but if we walk in the light as He Himself is in the light, we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Jesus His Son CLEANSES US FROM ALL SIN. Vs)6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. We can not be in fellowship with Christ and be walking in the darkness. This means we are not in fellowship, it does not mean we have lost our salvation or we are not a Christian. It means we are failing and struggling with something and we have been neutrealized by the enemy, Satan, and are not furthering the Kingdom of God which is our purpose for being on this planet to begin with. It means we must acknowledge we need the forgiveness provided by Christ before fellowship can be restored. First John 2:1-2 1) My little children, I am writing these things to you that you may not sin. AND IF ANYONE SINS, WE HAVE AN ADVOCATE WITH THE FATHER, JESUS CHRIST THE RIGHTEOUS; AND HE HIMSELF IS THE PROPITIATION FOR OUR SINS; AND NOT FOR OURS ONLY, BUT ALSO FOR THOSE OF THE WHOLE WORLD. This is written to every one of us and it is a wonderful truth. Jesus is the propitiation, or satisfaction, for our sins. He is our advocate, our defense attorney. He has cleansed us from our sins. We sin every day, all of us no way around it. Jesus has taken our place, our punsihment was paid for when he died on the cross. First John 2:3-6 And by this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. The one who says I have come to know Him and does not keep His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him; but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as he walked. Holy, these versus by themselves would support your view that if you are not showing works you are not saved, worse you are a liar. This book was written to Christians who were being tempted by secular religions and Gnostic beliefs. He was telling them to examine the false prophets using basic Christian foundations. First John 4:1-6 Beloved do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; and this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming , and now it is already in the world. You are from God, little children, and have overcome them; because greater is He who is In You, than he who is in the world. They are from the world; therefore they speak as from the world and the world listens to them. We are from God; he who knows God listens to us; he who is not of God does nto listen to us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error. Any person that denies Christ is not from God. 1 John 5:1-3 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God; and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe his commandments. For this is the love of God that we keep his commandments and his commandments are not burdensome. Again, importance of works and obeying commandments is outlined to show it is part of our witness. 1 John 5:4-13 victory over the world and assurance of Salvation: 4) for whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world, our faith. And who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God. This is the one who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood. And it is the Spirit who bearswitness because the Spirit is the truth. for there are three that bear witness, the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement. If we receive the witness of men, the witneess of God is greater; for the wintess of God is this, that He has borne witness concerning His Son. 10) The one who believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar because he has not believed in the witness that God has borne concerning His Son. And the wintess is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the son has the life, he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God in order that you may know that you have eternal life. Again, Salvation starts with Jesus. To all of you who have followed this and think "What"? Recieve Jesus and the rest of this will be revealed to you. It is all about Jesus. This world, this life, your life, your job, your relationships, it is all about Jesus and what you do with the knowledge of him. I gots to get to work, RJV.

Just got back from Glamis this morning at around 2am. What a trip. 18 hours of drive time one way, 2 partial days of riding, 18 hours of drive time home and about 500 bucks in gas. Got a couple good rides in, early morning and in the evening about an hour or so before dark. Took one night ride as well. The dunes were great. It was hard for me to get a feel for things though cuz of the heat. The other problem was I had no GPS. With no people around to follow (we saw three people the entire time) it made learning the terrain a trial and error process. The only place I know I found for sure was Olds. I think I found the wall and maybe Brawley slide but I am not sure on either of those. The rest of the riding may have been "hot spots" but I could not tell you. I did realize one thing for sure, Glamis is a Banshee Riders Paradise. Unfortunately because of the heat I left the Banshee home and took the wifes Raptor instead. I love the Raptor but I was wanting the 'she on so many different occasions it wasn't even funny. We are planning on returning to Glamis in October hopefully with cooler temps and the 'shee as well as a good sized group of friends and family. Later everyone. RJV

Metallica- Load VanHalen- 1984/ Best of Both Worlds: Greatest Hits Kuttless- Sea of Faces RJV

For every point you have made, a counter point has been made. I think some of your points have been made using quotes from the Bible that are taken out of context. Now, I understand you will look at my posts and in turn say I have taken them out of context....so how do we or other judge who is right? James 2:17 Even so faith if it has no works is dead, being by itself. We have beat this topic to death. A Christian who is saved, has accepted Christ as his personal savior and is filled with the Holy Spirit will have works with his faith. Who are you or I to say what his work should be? God uses us where he will and when he will. That use is based upon our own maturity in Christ. Some mature quickly while other stumble along. Someones works may be as simple as handing a burger to a homeless person after they pull out of the drive through while other have dedicated their lives to work in the mission field in a third world country. Is one of them better than the other? Have they both done what God through the Holy Spirit has led them to do? Not all are called to missions work and not all are called to give a burger to some guy on the street, but when you are called you better move. What if you fail though, and you don't give that burger up or you ignore the call to missions? do you loose your salvation? No, you simply fail and hopefully you recognize it through the prompting of the Holy Spirit and you do not drop the ball again next time. If you are running from God on a larger scale like avoiding the mission field, you will be miserable and will not find true happiness until yo submit to God's perfect plan for your life. There are a million other examples in life, I tried to present a simple example and a more complex example. Now someone who claims Christ but has no works and never has had any works, are they saved? I would say no....but that is not my place to put a final judgement....That is between them and God. Now someone who works all the time, gives to the church, gives to the poor, teaches from the bible, leads scouts, trys to be a good friend and husband and father and trys to follow the law but has never accepted Christ as their personal saviour....are they saved.....NO. As to what happens to that person who spent his life trying to work his way to heaven when he dies, read the Bible and make up your own decision (which we all have). I have never said the only important part of the Bible is Salvation. I do say that Salvation is the most important and I believe the first step to true understanding of the Bible. Matthew 24:13 But the one who endures to the end, he shall be saved. I already posted my view on that. It is speaking about those who endure during the end times during the Tribulation. I believe this because Chapter 24 speaks of the 2nd coming of Christ. Holy I don't know that we differ on this but maybe we do. A person must have Christ to understand and appreciate what you are saying. Without Christ first, the Bible is nonsense. Spiritual maturity and growth is just like anything else. You can pick up a guitar but you can't play it immediately. You pick it up knowing what it is about and what you are supposed to do but you must learn the basics before you can play a song. (For the BHQ'rs on here, you can jump on a Banshee but you must understand the basics of the bike to make it "work") You speak of Steak and Lobster so to speak while I am talking to the others on this thread using Gerber Baby Food. Most people can not jump straight into the Law of the Bible without starting off slowly. You see examples of this in the different Letters in the Bible, the Church at Corinth was not the same as the Church in Rome. They were at different stages in their maturity in Christ. My goal here is to simply point out Christ. Over and over lift Him up and put Him first. Let the people here decide on Christ for themselves, and then they will seek out the wisdom of the Word. I am not a teacher. It is not my calling to interperet the Bible for anyone else. My beliefs are well grounded. I have looked at your thoughts and posting with an open mind and prayerfully reviewed them using the Bible. I have responded to most of your posts (all of them I thinK) using the Bible to explain my beliefs most of the time including your own passages. You will no more change my views than I will change yours and I am cool with that. It is not our job to change eachother. Present the information and let the Holy Spirit work. That is it. RJV

Exactly. RJV

Happy Mothers Day to all the Dune Riding (and non-dune riding) Moms out there who take part in this aspect of our lives either by riding with us, taking care of camp or watching the little ones, we could not do it without you RJV

There is no good in the heart of man. We are corrupt and self serving. Maybe not all of the time, but sin is sin and it only takes once. God does not seek out the good in men and reward the good things we do because without Him, there is no good to be found. I have said before, a Christian who has turned his back on God is the most miserable person alive. They may not admit and the world may not see it as they party their life away, but I gurantee the Holy Spirt is chipping away at them every day and one way or another God will get their attention. He disciplines his children. The Trinity, our Soul and Hell seem to be quite a point of contention. Believing in or not beliving in the Trinity will not get you into heaven. Believing or not believing in an eternal everlasting soul will not get you into heaven. Beliving or not believing in Hell will not get you into heaven. Only Jesus will get you into heaven. To all of you who have read this thread, my advice is simply this, Start with Salvation, accept who and what you are and then accept what Christ did for you and the rest of us. After that, the Holy Spirit will help you understand the Bible, God's Word, His letter to us. Jesus is the focal point of the whole Bible from Genesis to Revelation. His identity, His character, His purpose and how it was all accomplished is in that book. Decide for yourself. I have no verses to quote tonight. I am sore and tired from several days of work and need to get caught up on sleep for graveyard. Take care. RJV

I really thought they would have an unlockable banshee and am dissapointed they don't. However, the tracks are tough which I like, the graphics are good, the sound track is cool, the gear is realistic and the pro riders in both the MX Bikes and Quads are a nice touch. It is not ATV OFF ROAD II, but is better in a lot of ways. I like the game and am glad I dropped the 40 bucks on it. RJV

Your best bet at this point would be EBAY. You might check motosportoutlet.com but no guarantees. They were popular and will sell fast. RJV

I think I will probabally pass till next fall. I was afraid I had waited to long this year and it sounds like I was right. Thanks for the info guys. RJV

The new Thor Quadrant boots are running about 130, they are great. Super comfortable and my old Thor boots have lasted for 3 seasons of MX and Dune riding. As to helmets, the HJC helmets are good. I would look at MSR, THOR and BELL Helmets as well. All three companies offer helmets in the low to mid 100s. Rock Mountain MC is the best way to go from my experiance. Welcome to the world of riding RJV

Thanks, I figured as much. I have never been to Glamis so I will hope for the cooler weather. RJV

Any of you guys from the Glamis area, my brother and I are talking about making a trip, leaving May 16. How is the weather? If it is to late in the season and we are hitting high 80's we will probabally pass but if it is still 70ish we will put the gas money down and make the trip. Any tips would be appreciated. RJV

I hear you on that one. Every thing was fine and happy in Banshee Land until I found this place and realized there is no end. Have you all seen the t-shirt with the super 50 on it that says, "When does a Hobby Become a Sickness?" That is where I am at RJV

That sums it up pretty well. It identifies where we are at now in this thread for sure. A battle over the "law" is not profitable for anyone. Good Job Banshee.

I never wanted this to become an argument, I have tried very hard to not be argumentative during this thread but I am human. It is amazing that this is still going on. I do not have anything new to add. Holy and I will not agree and that is apparent. The funny thing is it does not matter if we agree. All that matters is what each person who has read this thread does with the information they have gained by reading this. Two views have been posted. Which one is right? Those of you who actually want to know who is right will take the time to search out the Bible on their own. Take the Bible versus that have been posted and read them for yourselves, put them in context, if you are not sure of the context, ask someone to help explain. Most of the time you can even call a church and talk to a pastor on the phone to get a little help. The truth is in the Bible. There is only one truth, it is absolute and final, not open for interpretation. We as humans will never fully understand that truth without God. That is just how it is. RJV PS: Holyman, tell me you are getting some good riding in while on vacation, I know I could use about a week on the sand with friends and family just riding and BBQin and riding some more

the rider is a huge part of racing. If you as a rider hit everything perfect, you may win against a bike you typically would not. In my experience with my friends, if I am smoking them on my bike, typically, I will smoke them on there bike. We have all had days where we are just off and we have all had those days where everything is clicking an you just can not be beat. Now, if you have a better bike, it may allow you to make a small mistake and still win. i would agree with that. For example racing a 400ex. If I get a bad start typically I am going to smoke the guy anyway. Now if I get a get start, then miss a gear and then have to let off cause I am to aggressive on the throttle trying to catch up, I may loose (once) to that 400ex. I would say it is around 80% rider, 20% quad at the dunes drag racing, any other type of racing, enduro, mx, woods, sx etc I would put that ratio at 90% 10% machine. RJV

I agree that you know your way around the bible. I do not agree that you know the bible correctly. Knowing how to navigate through the bible is not the same as understanding the bible. Over and over again you have made points using portions of scripture. Over and over I have expanded those same scriptures to include versus before and after your quotes to disprove your own theories. I have never used my own knowledge or reasoning to dispute anything you have said. I have allowed the word of God to speak for itself and prove itself. I have never personally attacked you for your views and or beliefs and i won't. I however disagree with you on many many fronts. I do not have any expectation that you will be swayed by the arguments that I put forth. I simply want to tell you and everyone else about the wonders of Salvation through Christ. As to Josh McDowell and "more than a carpenter" I appreciate your opinion on the book but I disagree with you. (Big surprise I am sure ) In no way do I suggest that any book would replace the Bible, that is the first place anyone should look when they have questions about Christianity. I am more than willing to review your views on Christ and I am somewhat curious as to how you biblically support your beliefs. RJV

Holyman, there is no doubt you "know the Bible". Your problem is you interperet the Bible using the logic of men. You try to use your wisdom to explain the mystery of God. Colossians 1:8-10 See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception according to the tradition of men, according to the elemetary principles of the world rather than acorrding to Christ. for in Him all the fulness of Deity dwells in bodily form and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority. 1 Corinthians 2:6- Yet we do speak wisdom among those who are mature; a wisdom, however, not of this age, nor of the rulers of this age who are passing away; but we speak God's wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wsdom, which God redestined before the ages to our glory; the wisdom which none of the ruleres of this age has understood; for if they had understood it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 1 Corinthians 3:18-19 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you thinks that he is wise in this age, let him become foolish that he may become wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness before God. For it is writtent "He is the one who catches the wise in their craftiness". To everyone who has read this thread. Search out your own answers. Holy has his views. I have presented a different view, which is Christ as our Savior. Check it out for yourselves. Grab a Bible, grab book like More than a Carpenter, its only 127 pages in larger print, easy to read. This is important stuff. Later Y'all RJV

My name is Randy. This has been great for my own personal growth. You and Dave and Brooke and all the others who took time to post made me look at things and reafirm who I am and who God has and is making me to be. If just one person was moved or is moved by this thread then praise God. Later - RJV

Thank you Banshee, you hit it right on the head, especially the part about muddy waters which is my concern at this point in the thread. You were able to articulate that clearer than I was in my last post. Thanks. Holy, if my last post is incorrect and offensive to you then I apologizel. I am passionate about God and His Word and His Son and the Salvation I have received. RJV

Holy, it is apparent we do not agree. Everything I have stood on is from the Bible. We some how do not read the same passages the same. I do not understand how that can be but we don't see eye to eye. The thing is you have been fighting this battle alone. You have continuosly refuted counsel from myself and others who have posted on this thread. Have you seriously and prayerfully gone to God with your beliefs? I do not know where your beliefs stem from because you refuse to tell us your religous affiliation. You say it does not matter but it does. The things you say lead me to believe you are Jehova Witness. Other things make me think maybe you belong to the Latter Day Saints. I stand in the strength of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. I believe in the Word of God and I trust the Holy Spirit leads me through the Word of God giving me wisdom and understanding beyond what a simple man can have. The things you say take away from the Diety of Christ, they take away from the ability of Christ to save wholly and completely. You are tellng people they will have a second chance after they die to be saved. You say you can lose your salvation. None of this is Biblical. The versus you use to support your claims are out of context and I have shown that over and over again. These things are wrong. I will gladly continue the thread, but I ask you to take a hard look at what has been said by others on this thread. This goes far beyond the surface issue of celebrating certain holidays or if we should vote or the theory of the Trinity. It is a matter of life and death. I have chosen life through Christ. Nothing will ever take that from me. I have read your post, but it is late and I am tired. I want to be sure to speak clearly and not make mistakes that will cause confusion or stumble anyone who may read this thread. I will go into futher detail at another time on your points. Quickly though As to Acts, the unrighteous are the ones who are not justified through Christ. As to is believing in God the same as being saved, no it is not. I made that point several posts ago. I did not skip Rev 20:12-13. They say all will be judged. If your name is not in the book of Life you will be judged by your works to determine your level of punishment, not your level of reward. YOUR DEEDS CAN NOT SAVE. Only Jesus. Your name is in the book of life only if you accept Christ. Vs 15 says "And if anyones name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. Salvation only comes through Christ. RJV