New Here trying to learn

[04srt4black]

I picked up a 96 banshee from my dad (basically gave it to me) It hasnt been rode in about 5 years or so , still had fuel in the tank , OLD OLD OLD fuel , so i drained that out . Went to the store and got some motul and i went ahead and bought 4 new spark plugs, and 2 gallons of 93 octane , i wasnt sure how to mix it up so i called the place i got the mixture from , he told me 4 ounce's per gallon , so i put in 8 ounces to the 2 gallons of 93 octane . I then put the new gas in, and new plugs in and put the chokes on *i think* , isnt the choke ON when they are pushed down ?

 

Then i commenced wearing my leg out , i kicked for probably 30 minutes with no start at all . I called the store i bought my mixture from and he told me to get a LITTLE bit of starting fluid and take the filter off and spary a little down in each carb , which i did and it started after maybe 3 or 4 kicks , it ran , but the revs were crazy high and then it died after about 5 seconds or so and when it died it sounded like it had a blow out (like compression shot out of the carbs?). then it would not start back to save its life . I then talked to my dad and he told me NOT to spray any more either that it could damage the motor ? so i didnt .

 

My question is , what do you think the starting point for me is on this thing ? Rebuild the carbs ? clean them ? Something else wrong ?

 

This thing never has really ran right , even 5 years ago it was a hard start and it ran fine after it warmed up , but sometimes the powerband would work and sometimes it wouldnt ?

 

I have been reading the jetting , how carbs work , etc. , but i still dont uunderstand where i need to start at here . Im at around 11-1200 ft (thanks to the one sticky thread)

 

I also have to change out my carrier bearings , mine is shot and you can see where at the back its rubbing metal to metal and the rear end sways back and forth(bearings definetly shot) Can anyone recomend a good rear carrier(stock maybe with new bearings?)

 

 

Thanks everyone for their help , im into rebuilding cars(Me and my dad own a junk yard and buy and fix wrecked vehicles), not atv's , but i want to get into ATV's and quit blowing money on my car's .

[black sunshine]

Welcome to the HQ! Answers to all of your problems lie within!

 

Did you look at the plugs after you did all that kicking? Smell of fuel/wet?

I don't know what jetting you need at that altitude, but you wouldn't hurt anything by cleaning the carbs and seeing what you have for pilots, mains, and clip positions.

 

Maybe check what kind of spark you have by grounding the plug to the cylinder and seeing if you have a fat blue spark when your kicking it over.

 

Compression is aways a good thing to know, also. If you have access to a known "good" tester, that will help this puzzle.

 

Oh, probably find a good condition carrier on here in the "for sale" or "wanted" categories, or Ebay.

Edited March 3, 2009 by black sunshine

[04srt4black]

Welcome to the HQ! Answers to all of your problems lie within!

 

Did you look at the plugs after you did all that kicking? Smell of fuel/wet?

I don't know what jetting you need at that altitude, but you wouldn't hurt anything by cleaning the carbs and seeing what you have for pilots, mains, and clip positions.

 

Maybe check what kind of spark you have by grounding the plug to the cylinder and seeing if you have a fat blue spark when your kicking it over.

 

Compression is aways a good thing to know, also. If you have access to a known "good" tester, that will help this puzzle.

 

Oh, probably find a good condition carrier on here in the "for sale" or "wanted" categories, or Ebay.

 

Plugs were black as coal and they had a little on the threads , but ont on the tip itself , the tips were both black . And yes it smelt like fuel terribly bad , like it was flooded .

 

I will check the spark this evening when i get home , and i guess an regular matco compression tester will work ? we have a few of those at the shop i can take home . Its hard to kick over so i assumed the compression was good , lol . I may run home in a minute and check the compression and report back

 

Im going to have to read again on the carbs because even with them in front of me i dont know what the pilots, mains and clips are lol .

 

They stink like old fuel so bad it isnt even funny , i can almost gurantee that they are clogged like no other .

 

Thanks for the help ! Its definetly a start for sure

[04srt4black]

Just went and did the compression test , it was right at 80 on the left cylinder and at 85 on the right cylinder . Whats it suppose to be on these things ?

[R. Rollins]

Ok here is what you can do in order.

 

 

 

 

 

First take care of ordering the carrier stuff.

Order a Clymer Yamaha Banshee manual for your year of ATV.

Order a carb gasket kit for both carbs.

Order or purchase a new set of standard NGK plugs for it.

Order a Carb sync tool as shown on the Banshee HQ video section:(How to manually sync your Banshee carbs. Its also on You tube.

(This carb sync tool will run about $35.00)..Its made for VW bugs I believe.)

Get an inline fuel filter to fit your fuel lines.

Order a TORS removal kit if it still has the TORS boxes on top of the Carbs.

(note: A search on this site will explain all this TORS stuff)

All this so far is to get you ready for the mechanics work.

 

It will keep you from riding her with screwed up bearings while it is dissassembled.

 

Secondly.

Take the airbox out completely.

 

next.

Remove the carbs completely.Make sure that you note the positions of the carb slider hooked onto the cables are positioned when removed. (If you install backwards the engine will run badly)

 

Mark both carbs left and right with something. Taking note of cable positions and locations of anything else. Photos help as well.

 

Get yourself some carb cleaner (at least 2 cans) and a metal or plastic pan.

Take the carb apart and clean it completely inside and out.

put in the new gaskets and check to make sure all orifices are free and clear.

install the new needle onto the cable in the exact same groves that they came off of. (dont bend the needle)

 

Re-assemble the carb with the new gaskets and do teh same proceedure for the other carb.

 

Next you might want to inspect your reeds while they are exposed.

(check the manual)

 

Put the carbs on the exact same side that they were removed from.

hook up the carbs to the boots, assemble cables etc.

 

Re-set the air mixture screws to factory settings according to your manual.

Adjust both the exact same on both sides.

Now do the same for the idle screws.

Put in the new Plugs after checking the plug gap just to be safe.

 

check your spark by removing a plug still attached to the plug wire and crank on the kick starter while holding onto the plug boot and getting the spark end close to the engine near a scratched surface area.

. Do this to both sides checking for a good spark.

 

Now its time to adjust the throttle cable.

Look at the left carb with the one that has the choke mechanism. Adjust the cable for that one first. now position your eyes between the carbs and slowly lift the carb sliders with a push of the thumb throttle lever.

(the idea is to watch them both lift up and adjust them to lift at the same time exactly.)

The adjustments should be made on top of the carb where the cable meets the carb top.

You will have to pull the rubber boot up to expose these adjuster nuts on the cable.

 

Once you have these adjusted so that they both lift at exactly teh same time you are manually in sync.

 

 

Now turn on the fuel to the fuel lines and wait for the fuel to flow.

 

Choke the carb and attempt to start.

 

It should start

You can now adjust the carbs further by getting your carb sync tool and checking and adjusting for maximum vacum

(remember to adjust both sides by 1/4 turn incraments only.)(Do the same on both sides each time you make an adjustment.)

 

I hope I havent missed much.

 

If I have .

 

Other MASTER BANCHEE HQ people please fill in the other details that I may have messed up on.

 

This is only a guide that should get you reall close to the ball park on where you need to be.

 

After a while you will be able to hear and feel what teh engine is doing.

 

At any altitude other than sealevel, I would consider getting the appropriate jet sizes for the altitude you plan on running her at....this is really important.

 

Once all is verified you can adjust the jetting with a good plug chop proceedure. This can be explained later once you get her running, tuned slightly and cleaned out first.

 

 

This is what I would do in your situation. I hope I steered you down the path of good beginnings.

 

R. Rollins sends....

Edited March 3, 2009 by R. Rollins

[quikshee]

Just went and did the compression test , it was right at 80 on the left cylinder and at 85 on the right cylinder . Whats it suppose to be on these things ?

 

 

You need a top end rebuild bud, stock compression is 130psi. Anything under 100 is due for a rebuild.

[04srt4black]

Ok here is what you can do in order.

 

 

 

 

 

First take care of ordering the carrier stuff.

Order a Clymer Yamaha Banshee manual for your year of ATV.

Order a carb gasket kit for both carbs.

Order or purchase a new set of standard NGK plugs for it.

Order a Carb sync tool as shown on the Banshee HQ video section:(How to manually sync your Banshee carbs. Its also on You tube.

(This carb sync tool will run about $35.00)..Its made for VW bugs I believe.)

Get an inline fuel filter to fit your fuel lines.

Order a TORS removal kit if it still has the TORS boxes on top of the Carbs.

(note: A search on this site will explain all this TORS stuff)

All this so far is to get you ready for the mechanics work.

 

It will keep you from riding her with screwed up bearings while it is dissassembled.

 

Secondly.

Take the airbox out completely.

 

next.

Remove the carbs completely.Make sure that you note the positions of the carb slider hooked onto the cables are positioned when removed. (If you install backwards the engine will run badly)

 

Mark both carbs left and right with something. Taking note of cable positions and locations of anything else. Photos help as well.

 

Get yourself some carb cleaner (at least 2 cans) and a metal or plastic pan.

Take the carb apart and clean it completely inside and out.

put in the new gaskets and check to make sure all orifices are free and clear.

install the new needle onto the cable in the exact same groves that they came off of. (dont bend the needle)

 

Re-assemble the carb with the new gaskets and do teh same proceedure for the other carb.

 

Next you might want to inspect your reeds while they are exposed.

(check the manual)

 

Put the carbs on the exact same side that they were removed from.

hook up the carbs to the boots, assemble cables etc.

 

Re-set the air mixture screws to factory settings according to your manual.

Adjust both the exact same on both sides.

Now do the same for the idle screws.

Put in the new Plugs after checking the plug gap just to be safe.

 

check your spark by removing a plug still attached to the plug wire and crank on the kick starter while holding onto the plug boot and getting the spark end close to the engine near a scratched surface area.

. Do this to both sides checking for a good spark.

 

Now its time to adjust the throttle cable.

Look at the left carb with the one that has the choke mechanism. Adjust the cable for that one first. now position your eyes between the carbs and slowly lift the carb sliders with a push of the thumb throttle lever.

(the idea is to watch them both lift up and adjust them to lift at the same time exactly.)

The adjustments should be made on top of the carb where the cable meets the carb top.

You will have to pull the rubber boot up to expose these adjuster nuts on the cable.

 

Once you have these adjusted so that they both lift at exactly teh same time you are manually in sync.

 

 

Now turn on the fuel to the fuel lines and wait for the fuel to flow.

 

Choke the carb and attempt to start.

 

It should start

You can now adjust the carbs further by getting your carb sync tool and checking and adjusting for maximum vacum

(remember to adjust both sides by 1/4 turn incraments only.)(Do the same on both sides each time you make an adjustment.)

 

I hope I havent missed much.

 

If I have .

 

Other MASTER BANCHEE HQ people please fill in the other details that I may have messed up on.

 

This is only a guide that should get you reall close to the ball park on where you need to be.

 

After a while you will be able to hear and feel what teh engine is doing.

 

At any altitude other than sealevel, I would consider getting the appropriate jet sizes for the altitude you plan on running her at....this is really important.

 

Once all is verified you can adjust the jetting with a good plug chop proceedure. This can be explained later once you get her running, tuned slightly and cleaned out first.

 

 

This is what I would do in your situation. I hope I steered you down the path of good beginnings.

 

R. Rollins sends....

 

You my freind are one smart individual! THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU! I will definetly get the carbs cleaned and stuff and go ahead and order the syn tool i need and get the carrier , carb gaskets , etc. on their way .

 

^but according to the guy above me i need to reubild the top end ? would that be why 5 years ago the powerband would come on strong sometimes and quit working the next pull ?

Edited March 3, 2009 by 04srt4black

[magz]

You my freind are one smart individual! THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU! I will definetly get the carbs cleaned and stuff and go ahead and order the syn tool i need and get the carrier , carb gaskets , etc. on their way .

 

^but according to the guy above me i need to reubild the top end ? would that be why 5 years ago the powerband would come on strong sometimes and quit working the next pull ?

 

 

you dont have enough compression to run the motor. sorry Rollins advice is alright but wrong, you dont need half that shit, you can download a clymers online for free, you dont really have to have the sync tool, unless you're wanting the exact thing. dont remove the airbox unless you plan to always ride in a nice dry area with no mud or water. dont need a carb rebuild kit, just take the carbs off and clean them real good with the mentioned carb spray.

 

while rhollin does have some good general advice like a fresh set of plugs inline fuel filters are shit, and will clogg easy which when your on a good long run will tend to starve the carbs for fuel if not changed regularly. and will cause a lean condition.

 

tors removal is optional but generally a great idea when you get time and money to do it.

 

list the mods you have

list the elevation you live

list the type of riding you want to do

list the current jets main and idle and needle position - someone will tell you if it need changed for your mods.

and you'll recieve the answers you need

Edited March 3, 2009 by magz

[04srt4black]

My elevation is 11-1200 ft , but i live up in mountain areas all the way up to 5k feet , but i dont plan to ride that high . The highest i will ever go is maybe 2k feet .

 

I have zero mods , stock .

 

The TORS i dont even see , i had no wiring at all on my carbs , so idk on that . We bought this thing back in 97-98 from an auto auction as a theft recovery , rode it very little and its sat in the basement for the last 5 years .

 

Only riding im going to be doing is on the street , on the farm , and maybe a little trail riding , but thats about it .

 

Just talked to another guy about my compression and he told me it may be low compression due to me trying to start it so much that i washed the cylinder walls down .

 

Im up for any and ALL types of suggestions and help . I just want to get this thing running again and have some fun , lol .

 

Im selling my intercooler off my 08 caliber srt4 today for $550 so i will have a little money to spend and hopefully get this thing on its feet again .

 

Once again Thank You to everyone for the help so far , You guys got a top notch forum here and im glad i found it

[magz]

My elevation is 11-1200 ft , but i live up in mountain areas all the way up to 5k feet , but i dont plan to ride that high . The highest i will ever go is maybe 2k feet .

 

I have zero mods , stock .

 

The TORS i dont even see , i had no wiring at all on my carbs , so idk on that . We bought this thing back in 97-98 from an auto auction as a theft recovery , rode it very little and its sat in the basement for the last 5 years .

 

Only riding im going to be doing is on the street , on the farm , and maybe a little trail riding , but thats about it .

 

Just talked to another guy about my compression and he told me it may be low compression due to me trying to start it so much that i washed the cylinder walls down .

 

Im up for any and ALL types of suggestions and help . I just want to get this thing running again and have some fun , lol .

 

Im selling my intercooler off my 08 caliber srt4 today for $550 so i will have a little money to spend and hopefully get this thing on its feet again .

 

Once again Thank You to everyone for the help so far , You guys got a top notch forum here and im glad i found it

 

 

just like any car, all you need is compression, air, fuel, spark. without compression it wont run and 90 is the minimum PSI you should run it at or else you risk more damage and more costly repair. if you putting out 80 and 85 you have at the very minimum a top end rebuild. youll need a bore and a hone, and new pistons & rings to match. youll probably spend somewhere in the range of 2-350 fixing the motor just to get the compression up to snuff. contact a reputable builder, three on the board i can think of, jeff, jim,kevin - fast-passions-herjuggs all great builders with the best prices around. they wont lie to you.

[04srt4black]

just like any car, all you need is compression, air, fuel, spark. without compression it wont run and 90 is the minimum PSI you should run it at or else you risk more damage and more costly repair. if you putting out 80 and 85 you have at the very minimum a top end rebuild. youll need a bore and a hone, and new pistons & rings to match. youll probably spend somewhere in the range of 2-350 fixing the motor just to get the compression up to snuff. contact a reputable builder, three on the board i can think of, jeff, jim,kevin - fast-passions-herjuggs all great builders with the best prices around. they wont lie to you.

 

Thanks for the help , the compression tester i used was a matco , BUT i had to keep my finger held down on the release valve because it leaked . Im going to try another tester this evening that will actually hold its own .

 

If it is the compression , i guess i will look into a top end rebuild . I assume these arent anything like a car because when you look at top end on a vehicle your talking about the valves , lash adjusters , cams , etc . BUT on this thing it seems like the top end is the pistons , etc. ? crazy , lol .

[uwenr]

Just my 2 cents, with it sitting that long you need to clean the carbs good, the idle circuit is plugged. With a backfire out of the carbs you need to check the reeds, could have blown a reed out. Mixing ratios are on the back of the 2 stroke oil bottle, stick to 32:1 and you will be fine. Im all about saving money, I wouldnt buy half the crap that R Rollins said if your not a complete retard you will be fine. Just post a problem on here and these guys will help you out. Tors are the carb tops that are huge cant miss them, just need new caps and cable to convert them, it will save you alot of headaches. After you get it running let the mods begin, it is never ending good luck.

[04srt4black]

Just my 2 cents, with it sitting that long you need to clean the carbs good, the idle circuit is plugged. With a backfire out of the carbs you need to check the reeds, could have blown a reed out. Mixing ratios are on the back of the 2 stroke oil bottle, stick to 32:1 and you will be fine. Im all about saving money, I wouldnt buy half the crap that R Rollins said if your not a complete retard you will be fine. Just post a problem on here and these guys will help you out. Tors are the carb tops that are huge cant miss them, just need new caps and cable to convert them, it will save you alot of headaches. After you get it running let the mods begin, it is never ending good luck.

 

If i were to take a pic of my carbs could someone here tell me if the TORS are removed ?

 

I didnt take the throttle cables off of them i just took the 2 screws off the top and pulled them out like that . the tops , throttle cable , needle and the plastic carb plate is still on the quad .

[R. Rollins]

Crap;

Sorry guys I must have missed the compression figures.

That would have saved me alot of typing on that one.

 

 

Yes they are correct above.

 

Just clean the shit out of her, get a manual, and re-build her top end.

 

 

 

 

 

Man I cant believe I missed that one.

 

Attn to the details I guess.

 

kickin my self real hard....

[black sunshine]

Definitely double check those compression figures with another tester. Shut off the gas, hold it wide open, and kick until the gauge stops climbing. :thumbsup: