WINDYCITYJOHN400

Anyone who knows Mailman will verify that all his stuff rips! If it wasn't for his 45 year old shoulder sockets, I'm sure he would never let this bike out of his hands. (But this bike coming out of his hands is the issue) But I know his arms are literally still sore from LAST season. You see plenty of Banshee's for sale that list "Arm ripping power"..........No truer statement could be made in this case. (The bike is a beast) 837cc's fresh, ready and waiting for the next contestant.

LMAO.... This is funny enough to move to the humor section.

These tests were made on a 73mm bore X 58mm stroke Cheetah. We then repeated the same comparisons on a 10mill stroke kit, (73mm bore X 64mm stroke), where we found the larger TRX250R reeds which we used on the Cheetah to be superior to the smaller Banshee sized reeds.....we found the performance of the Banshee sized reed seemed to be limited at around 120hp, when the engine performance was above that number we found the 250R sized reed to be superior, even with the "limiting factor" of that reed being offset to the center-line of the bridge and bore. Well, right from Calvin's own words.......^^^^^^ (As volfan537240 so kindly quoted) As I have said MANY time over the years...."!0 mill Cheetahs (535's) can be real runners, but 4 mill and smaller ( 400-421-472-480-485-492) cheetahs are junk performance wise for their cc's" CAMATV is well known for having a few strong running P.V. motors, but I think his true skill is in the overall bike set-up. I have yet to see a truly strong running 4 mill cheetah put down a respectable dyno number compared to a similar sized cub. The strongest running 4 mill cheetah I've ever seen posted on ANY site, was Mailman's 492. On gas with OOF pipes he pulled a 105. (He had 3 different builders port that motor over the years, many different sets of domes and had over 200+ dyno passes to get it to that point!) Now I'm sure you can find dyno runs listed often of much smaller cubs in the 421 to 465 range touching numbers in that range and with less cc's. Nickisgod had FAST build his 485 Cheetah and it maxed out a 95HP and didn't make ANY lower torque numbers than my smaller 465 cub even though he had the powervlaves. (Same dyno, same day) The OP asked which would be better for 500ft drags, a 421 cub or a 421 cheetah...............the answer is NOT the power valved motor. Hey, don't take my word for it.......believe the guy who designed and sells the cylinders.

Had one. Fully done 492 to be exact. My new 465 cub makes more power for less effort and less money. But the question was about 421's, so why push a cheetah....you might as well say DM. Since neither is the motor he asked about......

CUB without powervalve FTW at 1/2 the cost and with cheaper piston for lower long term costs. Not to mention common reeds, domes, etc. Plus more power per cc......

You two........... If you to keep fighting like this.....i'll have to buy you an engagement present.

Ron, I'm sure we'll all have a blast again. emtbanshee told me he has a new build coming together and he's planing on making some SL rides, so is hazardbanshee. I'm sure as dune dates actually get closer, we'll see more of the regulars chime in. (But I'll get new posts going for each trip as the dates get closer as well as a single general post after the first of the year with the locked in dates for the dunes.)

Mostly members like us. My ride group goes once a month all summer and after the first of the year I usually post the dates so if anyone else wants to join us. We pretty much go the same weekends every year because they work for us and we have had good luck year after year with those dates. Last year enough people liked one of the dates I listed well enough that it became an HQ ride. Same goes with Badlands trips. If your thinking of a date...put it out there and see if it draws interest. These are the tentative dates that I have at this point for Silver Lake 2013 (But they won't be etched in stone till after the first of the year.) Once I'm 100% in with the dates, I list them for people who need to call weekends off real early at work. That's why I post them right around the first of the year. May 17-18-19 (because Memorial day is the following weekend and some people like to do a shakedown trip before the big weekend.) June 7-8-9 (because fathers day is the following weekend) July 19-20-21 (This was last years HQ ride and that weekend has been perfect weather for us for over 10 years now.) August 16-17-18 September 20-21-22 (My anniversary weekend. The wife and I along with our friends go this weekend every year.)

Ok then.

What's wrong with chromoly? The next step up from that is Titanium. Mild steel is a step down from chromoly. you have to make something out of very thick mild steel for it to come close to chromoly in strength, and at that point all you have done is add weight of mass to make up for lack of strength. From all the way back in my old school BMX days till now.......mild steel is a strong as it sounds (mild) and chromoly is the premium metal for bike frames as well as ATV frames and suspension parts. And YES. It tore the metal all around the welds. The welds held, but the square tube metal weakened enough that the metal ripped in a circle just beyond the edge of the welds. 50% mild steel and 50% mild steel = 100% not chromoly and 100% now you gotta buy another swing arm. If you went cheap on the first arm because of budget...how will you afford a second cheap arm when the first one breaks? Two cheap arms cost more than one good arm with a honda carrier.

Sorry that was a responce to possum

What's your point? They break. That's my point. The bike I had it on was my dune bike. I'm not even talking about jumping type forces. It broke in sand! Yes I got 3 years out of it.....but most aren't expecting a swingarm to wear out faster than a set of tires. If the square tube TEARS in a circle around the welds.......then however thick the metal is.....it's still too thin! If you can't afford a chromoly swing arm....then you can't afford to be injured/hurt/laid up and or missing work. If I know of 2 that broke in the exact same fashion......it can't be rare. ( we were both in our 40's so it's not like we are wild crazy young guys airing out on an MX track.)

Bright colors with white plastics just POP out in the sand. (This next part is a personal opinion, I'm not bashing anyone's ride. LOL) The green and black thing is getting a little worn out to me. (The Monster energy theme is tired) And the whole Murdered out look was only cool if your machine looked like shit and you were looking for a cheap way to freshen it up a bit. I'm digging the TRI-COLORED look. White or even gray plastics with two colors that are in the same family, but different shades. (Like deep blue with accents of a lighter blue) or the same thing with any color. Balanced with the limited accents of chrome over the whole bike. I saw a dune machine that looked VERY different in a White and neon orange. It looked so different mostly because they did the rims in white! Another flip look I like is all white chassis with some SICK looking candy painted plastics. I'm thinking that my next build (the wife's duner) will have a deep dark translucent candy purple over metallic with black chrome and I'll accent the bike with a lighter color purple for stuff like the cases, hubs, small springs on front shocks....something like that. The wife likes those Meier Carbon fiber gray plastics and if you picture those with a bright accent color....it looks sharp. (Picture Tyler's gray bike with a serious splash of the color of your choice.)

One year warranty. Break it after that and the only people your going to see "standing behind you".......are the people taking pictures of your broken swing arm. (Been there....) It's mild steel. The round tube that the shock/dog bone mounts to is only welded to the inner part of the square tube. It develops cracks around that tube because it isn't welded to the inner and outer surfaces. So that pipe twists like a twist throttle. My welds held fine....but the metal around the pipe just tore! If you look at most of the chromoly arms out there....they have the shock mount tube pass all the way thru the main arm material and it's welded in two places on each side of the arm. Or they are a round tube to round tube connection and it's notched/birds mouthed at the weld point to add strength. Many also gusset that pipe as well. Add to that the fact that the flat metal plates that hold the factory carrier develop stress cracks from flexing left and right. My arm upon inspection after the failure showed 4 large stress cracks on the flat carrier mounts and the obvious broken shock mount tube. As soon as I saw the familiar cracks in the powder coat/paint on my buddies swing arm, we removed it and saw the start of the same small cracks on his flat carrier plates. Rich was contacted regarding replacement, but the arm was out of warranty.... so my friend just welded extra gussets to prevent more twisting forces at the shock mount tabs...then rattle canned the thing with silver paint and passed it off on an Ebay sale. I'm glad mine broke the way it did. (All it did was drop the bike like it had bottomed out on a jump. I was riding across flat dunes at the time.) But if a carrier mount had broken...the bike would have had the axle ripped to one side and it would have ended with a nasty crash. Real Words - no filter of friendship or loyalty. I bought it and was happy till the day it almost bit me. Don't get bit. Good Luck.

Nick moved to Denver.....and parted his machine. If your thinking of coming and getting sandy.....I'm posting our 2013 dune dates just after the first of the year, so you should have plenty of time to get some days off work and plan a road trip. Your more than welcome to join our group. I'll walk you thru everything you need to know to get into Silverlake without issues. You just tell me your "all in" for a trip and then all you'll need to do is show up and I'll guide you thru the rest.

Yes he did. I dyno'd it. LOL. So you got Big Red's old motor. Congrats. I advised him to have Tim cut those domes because the standard ones Trinity sends are detonation prone. He always said he was very happy with that motor. Plus like you said, it is ported, so it will be making more power. If your happy with it and the plugs look good...stick with that. Just about everyone I talked to advised 39's but they also said the 35's were only hurting the peak number by maybe 5 HP. If your not duning or full dragging.....I might not be worth the money and effort to switch. What kind of riding do you do with it? Where? Any thoughts of making a road trip out towards the Michigan dunes some time?

If it's not a ported cylinder you might be just fine with the jetting (The motor will be around 68 to 78 HP depending on your pipe choice) So the motor might not be breathing hard enough to have the excessive intake pulse that can cause the drastic suction on the jetting circuits that I was describing. But the 492 cheetah I had was fully ported with custom domes and I even had my 35's taper bored to 37's and the jetting needed to be VERY small due to the amount to fuel that would get pulled thru those jets. We had the same issue with the 485 "Nickisgod" had that F.A.S.T ported. He was running 38 Air strikers. But again....Those were fully build motors. If your machine is happy with the jetting you have, don't let anyone talk you out of what works for you. Stay happy with what you have and be glad it's working.

Your not going to find anyone who didn't like the 4's (cause they work great) and they don't make them for the cheetah yet....just the stock/cub size.

Your not going to find a set discounted...they just came out! Buy new.

So can we assume you'll still be celebrating the Holiday's and New Years with your woman? I'm figuring your 2013 will be much the same as your 2012.........more screaming it all out on your car rides alone to work and plenty of "Yes Dear" when your home. maybe by now you have new company next door....and you can walk over and chat with her dad about what your going thru.....

There are guys on THIS forum who have broken them. ME. (+6) Also had my buddy Bill's Ebnay arm broke the same way mine did. (+6) But he caught it in time to add a bunch of extra tabs and welds and was able to sell it off on Ebay. If it's not a full chromoly model....stay away! If it's a round tube model that doesn't have re-enforcing gussets at the connection point to the carrier....stay away as well!

Yeah, way better move than chasing jetting on carbs that are just too small for that motor.

I'm going to say that with the motor only running 35's your getting a VERY strong intake pulse. (I had this issue with a 472 Cheetah) Your motor is sucking SO HARD thru the carbs that the jet is flowing a lot more fuel than if you had bigger carbs. Your jetting will need to be crazy lean compared to what you think it should be. (142 mains and even 35 pilots) But don't just jump down that low....work your way down to a happy combo. Or get some 39's like most would run and your jetting numbers will match everyone else's usual jetting. But I think the issue is the Air Strikers in a 35mm. 39PWK's would be what most would run for that motor Plus those pods are robbing air flow and costing you 2-3 HP. Get the longer filters if you buy 39's.

I'm betting it's more like 55HP But more info is needed. Port timings? Compression? Maybe even list all your mods and parts........otherwise it's all just bad guessing.

What difference does it make? You can't run stingers in the dunes. (I'm assuming it's for the Silver Lake dunes.) Who knows, maybe you like trail riding with OOF stingers. LOL Even WITH silencers your going to be at or beyond MAX allowed volume. That's why most guys bring their machines into the dunes in the bed of a truck, so they don't get sound checked. My wife's 370 motor is one Db away from getting turned away......I shutter to think what will happen if the sound check my 10 mill with Shearers. (At least mine are in-frames) But I still think I'll fail the sound check. Luckily they don't test everyone.