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Well, newtown is a sand drag so it's 300'. And we will be bracket racing. You will prob win cause your so awesome......

God your a coward. Sorry guys, Bedtime. Keep em short cause I'll only read the last page.

Pretty sure, or sure... Cause Your wrong.

If your so serious about it, come on down. Newtown Dragway. But that would involve you doing something. And we have already established THAT is not going to happen.

Once again, these are shops that are looking for things way beyond engine performance. We are looking for power. I don't remember anyone coming to a dyno shop asking if we could tune their car to get better gas milage. Is that what your after? Gas milage. Well I guess in that case a fuel flow meter would be in some way useful. However, a/f ratio would pretty much tell you how efficent an engine could possibly be under any condition. Keep trying.

Read you own post, that tells you nothing about what timing the PCM is running. The only way to tell would be to put a crank trigger on the engine and compare that measurement to when the coil sparks. Nice try using the "waste spark" statement. Waste spark tells you NOTHING.

And once again if you knew what you were talking about you would know that at WOT a PCM is not taking feedback from the 02 sensor.

See if you knew ANYTHING about what your talking about you would know that you can manipulate the "look up tables" in the PCM. But you don't know that because you used to people tuning with piggybacks.

Do you even know what I'm talking about here? Obviously you don't, because you have NO practical knowledge about tuning a car on a dyno. Also I notice it takes you forever to respond to anything I post. Obviously because your searching the internet to find information.

Really common measurement? Examples? It's NOT a common measurement because you don't NEED to measure that due to the million other ways you can tell if an engine is starving for fuel.

And the magic answer your looking for is VOLTAGE all these sensors are calibrated to output a voltage reading. IF you have the software to measure their range, you can measure anything you want. Provided you know what the voltage means.. But, dyno shop, you worked at one.

OBDII computers do that dumbass. We are not talking about STOCK components. And we are not talking about multi million dollar dyno shops. We are talkling about reality. YOU cannot afford to have anything tuned at the GM plant. I thought this thread was about banshees? What happened to banshees, now were on cars. SO when were utilizing stock components you would know (dyno shop employee and all) that I can look in the chip program and tell you exaclty how much timing the car is running exaclty when under load, any weather condition ANYTHING. Thats called a timing map. But we are talking banshee. How are you going to practically determine how much timing the banshee CDI is running during a run? Without just taking any data, base timing increase vs stock timing curve. Huh, how you gonna do that, you said you could, explain...

BTW on a flow sensor, you don't really know what your measuring untill you have something to compare it to. So it is TOTALLY impractical to put on in unless there is a very obvious reason why you would want to measure this.. We used them on water injected engines to see how much water we were injecting, but only because we were trying to compare it to a certain amount of injected water and how much inter-cooling effect it had.

Just plumb in a flow sensor huh? Yeah, that works. Exaclty why would you want to know how much fuel is flowing on a NON fuel pump equipped engine? I guess to see that the engine is starving for fuel right, is that your idea? Well, you would already KNOW that if you were using wideband 02 sensors. If there was a fuel pump involved, well you would check fuel pressure. Not flow. Unless of course you felt that the fuel pump or line was not capable of flowing the needed fuel. But then again, you would see that with the a/f ratio as well as the fuel pressure, cause SURPRISE it drops when the pump or pump/line cannot keep up.

Yep, you worked at a dyno shop. Exactly what you you use to measure 20 different sources? It's possible, but thats exacly why I was speaking so highly of the shop I worked at. Do, tell what ecxaclty do you use to measure these different probes, how do they work? You don't know. All you know is how to search the internet. Oh, and measuring timing..... nevermind. You don't seem very practical in your knowledge.

Exactly, no answer.

And BTW how exaclty do you explain your statment that you should richen your fuel mixture for elevation? I mean, you have been tuning bikes forever. Apparently not that long since no bike you ever tuned went to a higher elevation. What about your crankcase statments? Are you taking all your made up engine physics into account on every bike? I'm the dumbass though. I noticed alot of guys dropped off of this thread lately. I do expect alot of input tomorrow or so after we have had time to do research on the internet.... Then well all be experts...

Yep, Oldschool. Well, your going to have to learn how to use fuel injection everntually. It's coming... Have you ever tuned a bike on a wideband? No, so how exactly can you possibly make the statement that you can get a bike closer? Going to outhink the computer huh?

Really, if you worked at a dyno shop you would know that SAE corrected would take into account 90% of what you just posted. How exactly are you going to measure cylinder pressure during a dyno run? Fuel flow huh, well not to say it impossible, but totally impractical. You would have to design a flow meter and calibrate it to function with some kind of data logging software. Then take you bike off the dyno, put a completely stock one on, then take measurements from it.... on and on and on. Spark timing huh? How exactly would you execute that with a stock CDI? RPM is easy, pretty much goes without saying. Crank case temp.... Ok, sure I guess you could measure that. But how exactly is that going to help you tune? EGT, Ok, sure you CAN do that, but I don't think your client is going to like it too much when you drill a hole in his 400+ dollar pipes to put in an EGT probe.

Man, it take you a long time to respond to questions when it's obvious your online. Could it be that we are researching our answers on the internet. Yeah, you worked at a dyno shop. Cause all this would be common knowledge for someone of your credentials.

So what exactly are you arguing with me about? you just don't like me.

Why don't you elaborate on what else you need? Are we talking about cars here, or banshees? If it's a banshee, well, your pretty much limited to a/f ratio. Maybe engine temp, but thats pretty much it. But you worked at a dyno shop right? What else are you going to measure on a banshee? So what other sources are required to obtian 02 sensor readings?

Really? Give me one exaple of someone who races professionally who reads plugs in lieu of useing a wideband 02 sensor. And they have to acutally WIN races. Not some halfbreed that built his grandma's old malibu wagon. Answer, none. You may see someone pull a plug or two when they have no other choice, but if they are tuning an engine, they use widebands on a dyno. At the track, no other choice, sure, look at the plugs, what else you gonna do?

Really? You think because you put an image of a two stroke engine working makes you some kind of expert on internal combustion engine physics? I have YET to see you post anything contradicting ANYTHING I have said. You in fact have quoted ME. I guess that

So what your saying here is that you can tell what is going on with an engine at cruise, or in mid range, or wherever other than WOT. And even then it's just a guess. Plug reading is old school tuning and anyone who says its better than the new techonolgy we have at our disposal is, well, oldschool. When you race a bike that was tuned properly, or god forbid a fuel injected bike, with the same mods you have and he blows your fenders off... Then you will know what I am talking about. Apply it to cars, apply it to bikes, apply it to your lawn mower. Wideband tuning (with EGT's) is FAR superior to plug reading. PERIOD.