Big Mike NY Posted February 4, 2007 Report Share Posted February 4, 2007 I picked up my 2003 Banshee today from getting a mild woods/trail porting job, forged Wiseco's and 19cc domes. Modifications are as listed: Cool Head w/ 19cc domes Woods/trail porting, stock crank Pro Flow intake Stock carbs Full FMF exhaust HD clutch V-Force Reeds stock gearing 50/50 mix 110/93 octane gas w/ Max Super M oil Weather was approximately 30 degrees here today, dry cold dense air ( I Love It)!! Bike started up on 1 kick, immediately noticed the kick starter had a little more resistance to it over what it was with stock internals. Let the bike warm up for 10 minutes and she held the idle perfect. I bundled up and headed out to take her for a test ride (on the street). I short shifted 1,2,3 & 4th gears at low rpms, then took her to a dead stop. The first 4 gears felt like normal. I then hit 1,2,3,4 & 5th this time taking her up to 75% thottle. I then noticed that my bottom end feels a little weaker than what it was w/out the porting and forged pistons, but my mid range and top end feel like an entirely different bike. From mid range to the top end of the powerband, the rpms jump much quicker and pull much much harder, and I haven't even went wide open throttle yet. Overall the bike definitely has a huge seat of the pants difference over stock internals. Today I ordered a timing plate which I will install and see how that helps out. The mechanic said it might help with the suffering bottom end. What do you guys think? Would going 1 tooth more on the front sprocket help wake her up down low? Please add your comments and suggestions to helping me improve my bottom end performance. I guess I'm used to the absurd amount of bottom end torque my TRX 370R has. In summary, the bike has woken up tremendously and will totally rip when I start to go wide open throttle! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsparky7 Posted February 4, 2007 Report Share Posted February 4, 2007 I picked up my 2003 Banshee today from getting a mild woods/trail porting job, forged Wiseco's and 19cc domes. Modifications are as listed: Cool Head w/ 19cc domes Woods/trail porting, stock crank Pro Flow intake Stock carbs Full FMF exhaust HD clutch V-Force Reeds stock gearing 50/50 mix 110/93 octane gas w/ Max Super M oil Weather was approximately 30 degrees here today, dry cold dense air ( I Love It)!! Bike started up on 1 kick, immediately noticed the kick starter had a little more resistance to it over what it was with stock internals. Let the bike warm up for 10 minutes and she held the idle perfect. I bundled up and headed out to take her for a test ride (on the street). I short shifted 1,2,3 & 4th gears at low rpms, then took her to a dead stop. The first 4 gears felt like normal. I then hit 1,2,3,4 & 5th this time taking her up to 75% thottle. I then noticed that my bottom end feels a little weaker than what it was w/out the porting and forged pistons, but my mid range and top end feel like an entirely different bike. From mid range to the top end of the powerband, the rpms jump much quicker and pull much much harder, and I haven't even went wide open throttle yet. Overall the bike definitely has a huge seat of the pants difference over stock internals. Today I ordered a timing plate which I will install and see how that helps out. The mechanic said it might help with the suffering bottom end. What do you guys think? Would going 1 tooth more on the front sprocket help wake her up down low? Please add your comments and suggestions to helping me improve my bottom end performance. I guess I'm used to the absurd amount of bottom end torque my TRX 370R has. In summary, the bike has woken up tremendously and will totally rip when I start to go wide open throttle! Going 1 tooth up in the front will take away lowend. You need to go a tooth down in the front to gain lowend. Its the opposite for the rear sprocket. As for the timming plate, it will help with the lowend but you can do the mod yuorself. Theres no need to spend money on a plate. If you have wrenches and a drill you can advance your timming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooter Posted February 4, 2007 Report Share Posted February 4, 2007 the adjustable timing plate will help out your low end . i bought mine from ricky stator 35.00 bucks great mod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banchetta Posted February 5, 2007 Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 If you want more low end, then your in for it.....I made the mistake of having a local builder do my shee up and same thing. I've spent over 1200 bucks in intake mods and trying different pipes to get it back...You can get some back, but not like what you'll want. The Paramid reed cages worked very well for more bottom end w/ no top end loss. I also gained a lot of bottom end w/ larger carbs..5hp on the bottom and 2hp on top. Although I am running a stroker. Dave at dlnoss really hooked me up though..He made me some domes that gave my back some low end and took the dip out of my power curve. Give him a shout. Best things that helped me: Paramid reed cages Heads w/ special domes Larger carbs The taper of the needles also made some nice changes as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigboybanshee Posted February 5, 2007 Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 Is that stock crank welded? I'd be a little nervous running raised compression w/porting on a totally stock crank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animalman294 Posted February 5, 2007 Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 Sounds like you are going in the right direction.................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellison445 Posted February 5, 2007 Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 Call me crazy but Last time I checked a woods/trail was more for bottom end Who ported the Jugs? You sure he knows what he is doing? Im sure one of the builders here will chime in on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Mike NY Posted February 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 Stock crank, un-welded. I'm not concerned about the crank. My mechanic said welding the stock cranks is a good idea if you jump a lot with the bike. The free revving engine while in mid air plus the hit when you touch down is primarily what causes the stock cranks to come apart. Besides I'm not running that crazy of compression. I'm not saying the bottom end is dead, it's just not as strong as the mid range and top end. Yes, I got a trails/woods port, which I was under the impression was supposed to give me a beefier bottom end, but from what I've read and heard the bottom end on Banshee's are really a dead issue. Listen, I'm not unhappy with my new motor, not at all. The bitch rips! I just want to see if there is anything I can do to wake her up on the bottom end. Thank you for all your input so far! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigboybanshee Posted February 5, 2007 Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 Stock crank, un-welded. I'm not concerned about the crank. My mechanic said welding the stock cranks is a good idea if you jump a lot with the bike. The free revving engine while in mid air plus the hit when you touch down is primarily what causes the stock cranks to come apart. Besides I'm not running that crazy of compression. Hey, if you feel comfortable doing it... :thumbsup: I had a friend running less compression than you and the crank started coming apart...didn't jump or anything, but hey, your builder knows his work best...I just wanted to give a heads up :beer: If you want more bottom end, advancing your timing and bigger carbs would be the best ticket. Your compression should already be pretty high with the 19cc domes. Have you done a compression test just to see how much you have? You could gear down one tooth in the front to help with acceleration, but it'll take more off your overall speed and will also have you shifting quicker...Are these tight trails you ride or wide open trails? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Mike NY Posted February 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 Hey, if you feel comfortable doing it... :thumbsup: I had a friend running less compression than you and the crank started coming apart...didn't jump or anything, but hey, your builder knows his work best...I just wanted to give a heads up :beer: If you want more bottom end, advancing your timing and bigger carbs would be the best ticket. Your compression should already be pretty high with the 19cc domes. Have you done a compression test just to see how much you have? You could gear down one tooth in the front to help with acceleration, but it'll take more off your overall speed and will also have you shifting quicker...Are these tight trails you ride or wide open trails? Not sweating the bottom end. I purchased the bike new in 2003, and it has maybe 100 hours total. Hey, if it blows up, no problem, more of an excuse for me to rebuild it bigger and better!!!! I'm going to give the timing plate a try and 1 less tooth on the front sprocket and see how that works out. If she is still suffering, then I will consider bigger carbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banchetta Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 I wouldn't listen to your builder anymore. Especially when he suggested not to weld the crank. The banshee is capable of creating a lot of bottom end power. This is where most people are wrong or have never rode a shee w/ bottom end. If a builder can not give you more bottom end than stock, then I wouldn't even talk to him anymore. Seriously..I have met a lot of Hqer's on here across the whole country. Tried and rode a lot of shees built by a lot of different builders, The best low end built shee I've ridden was JKJK's shee. There is almost no powerband hit. Very smooth and pulls very hard at any rpm. Dan from Patriot Racing built it. If I had to do mine all over, he'd be the man. I don't know of any other ported shee that even comes close to his. But most builders claim this and that and after you give them 500 bucks and it does the opposite of what you wanted, It just disappointing. I'm gonna stop whining now...... Anyways, don't gear down. Banshee have the torque to pull. You have to just let them do that, grabbing one gear after another will just slow you down....you'll be spending more time shifting, then accelerating...15/41 is a good gear for a piped shee w/ knobbies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Duece Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 I picked up my 2003 Banshee today from getting a mild woods/trail porting job, forged Wiseco's and 19cc domes. Modifications are as listed: Cool Head w/ 19cc domes Woods/trail porting, stock crank Pro Flow intake Stock carbs Full FMF exhaust HD clutch V-Force Reeds stock gearing 50/50 mix 110/93 octane gas w/ Max Super M oil Weather was approximately 30 degrees here today, dry cold dense air ( I Love It)!! Bike started up on 1 kick, immediately noticed the kick starter had a little more resistance to it over what it was with stock internals. Let the bike warm up for 10 minutes and she held the idle perfect. I bundled up and headed out to take her for a test ride (on the street). I short shifted 1,2,3 & 4th gears at low rpms, then took her to a dead stop. The first 4 gears felt like normal. I then hit 1,2,3,4 & 5th this time taking her up to 75% thottle. I then noticed that my bottom end feels a little weaker than what it was w/out the porting and forged pistons, but my mid range and top end feel like an entirely different bike. From mid range to the top end of the powerband, the rpms jump much quicker and pull much much harder, and I haven't even went wide open throttle yet. Overall the bike definitely has a huge seat of the pants difference over stock internals. Today I ordered a timing plate which I will install and see how that helps out. The mechanic said it might help with the suffering bottom end. What do you guys think? Would going 1 tooth more on the front sprocket help wake her up down low? Please add your comments and suggestions to helping me improve my bottom end performance. I guess I'm used to the absurd amount of bottom end torque my TRX 370R has. In summary, the bike has woken up tremendously and will totally rip when I start to go wide open throttle! i have a 17 up front which is 9 teeth taller than stock and i still have tons of ass end right off of idle, then of course my mid and top end break my arms......whats up? who did your porting, a woods bike should snap off at about 2k and pull its ass off, i could see where you dont have an over rev like a drag port.......maybe the 26 mm carbs need to go, is it jetted right, maybe its too rich on the bottom and not coming to life as it should, put some fresh plugs in it and ride briskly for a few and do a plug chop, most two cycles do run good at mid to high rpm getting one to snap off at low rpm is key..........most often you gear a ported bike taller..... gearing it lower sounds like something is not right jetting wise, because when it does come on then what? youve got a low geared bike thats winding out prematurly and your shifting your ass off never really letting the motor start pulling hard..if its ported chances are it wants to see more air and fuel........i cant remember what a stock main in a 26 is but seams to me, if you had a 180 stock you be up into the 3's or 4's with a ported, piped, and intaked shee on a stock carb?, who knows where the needles and pilot would be and if you have some compression those stock carbs are being sucked on like a baby on her moms tittie every time that thing completes a stroke...thats my opinion, tuned properly your top end will be two fold what it is now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
locogato11283 Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 banshee cant have bottom end huh? thats bullshit. my brother had a woods ported banshee that had tons of low end power. it was awesome in the trails. im with banchetta, i think your builder is a tard and i wouldnt listen to him ever again. im not sure why you even posted this. it seemed like you wanted suggestions on getting bottom end out of your bike. but when people are suggesting things you dont seem to wanna hear it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Mike NY Posted February 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 OK, first of all I came on here to hear some constructive criticism about my new setup, not hear how my builder is a jerkoff and doesn't know what he's talking about. My mechanic happens to be one of the areas top bike mechanics. I'm NOT saying he is a Banshee guru like some people on here CLAIM to be. My mechanic does build high HP 2 strokes and street bikes. So stop questioning his ability. This is one of the Pro Mod bikes he built. If the guy builds 7 second drag bikes, I think that validates his ability to build 2 stoke motors. So enough with the mechanic already. http://www.radiox.fm/photopages/chuckwagon/burnout!.jpg locogato11283, why do you say people are suggesting things I don't want to hear? Because I said I'm not worried about welding the stock crank? Come on man, gimme a break. What I was looking to hear from the members here is yes, the timing plate will work. I was also thinking that maybe the carbs need a better jetting, which someone mentioned. The bike does seem to smoke at idle and during throttle. I was thinking that that might be one of the culptrits. I have been drag racing cars for 9 years now and I currently own a 2100 HP Outlaw Camaro. I have been around high HP motors and I know for a fact that when you are dealing with a new combo, it takes a little finesse and patience to get the bugs worked out. I don't think there is any major issues with my combo, I think it's just a matter of getting the bugs worked out. I am going to install the timing plate and have the carbs looked at. I will take it from there... Thanks again for posting up your feedback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigboybanshee Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 Hey, in your title of the post you put "observations" and "comments" and that's what we're doing. If you don't want to take our advice then that's great, we're just telling you from our experiences... I still think your crank is going to separate if you have higher comp w/porting, but hey, you might have super shee for all we know. You asked for our comments and "observations" so don't get your panties in a bunch when you hear them. :beer: Also, my new trail banshee has a good amount of bottom end. My friend that rides a 450 even made the comment on how surprised he was at how hard it pulled even in the lower RPM's. They can be built. I'm still working out the bugs on mine too but it'll be a hard running machine throughout the band when I'm done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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