checkster Posted October 6, 2004 Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 Thanks for all the responses. We actually went to look at Expeditions and found the Excursion to be in the same ballpark price wise. It has alot more room, can haul a shitload more and I just like the looks of it. I heard they are going to discontinue making the Excursion's... is this true? This should go in the same book as Banshees blow up alot. I've heard it for years and it never has happened. It plain just sells enough units to justify keeping it in the line. whats the point of a diesel excursion? you can fifth wheel it? and in two years its gunna be worth 25k Beleive it or not. I need something that can tow, my wife will drive, and can haul everything I need it to. I would love to just get a 250 but this is a compromise. I'm sorry if you feel that this is more vehicle than I need, but I will take in to consideration what you have to say as soon as you send me your address so I know where to send the payment book. Why the hell would I want to fifth wheel it? And as far as what it will be worth in two years, I'm buying this one to run into the ground, another reason for the deisel. I was just asking about the reliability issues of the 6.0, everything else I have heard and really don't care about anyway. This truck really seems to start some contraversy(sp). Serously dont take it out of contest what I am saying, most of my comments have been "tongue in cheek anyway". I like Excursions and even though I have not owned one. I had an F-350 4x4 jacked to the sky that would pull a house down and loved it. I was just wondering what advantages it had over lets say a crew cab pick-up thats all. Im not trying to tell you how to spend your money....hell it your money and no skin off my back. You asked for opinions and Im just playing devils advocate and throwing some questions out there to give everyone things to think about. Dont get me wrong, Im the last one to throw stones at people after looking at my life and seeing how much I have pissed away on race cars, mud boggers, and bikes......if I added it up I could probably have a lamborgini in the garage.......LOL check Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sredish Posted October 6, 2004 Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 ok, paging scott in the power department and in the dirtgirl department, why come you no answer my e mails ??? i need a diablo sport programmer and to know if dg and big e are ok, i havent heard from them in a long ass time and also if anyone wants to buy my banks 6 gun with speed loader ? AND WHEN AND WHAT PICS YOU NEED OR WANT ? HELP SCOTT Have you emailed me? I hope not cause I ain't seen nuttin. As for dirtgirl, who knows where the hell she is, she said he to me on dunereview.com a month ago, but ain't heard nothin else. Man, I got the hookup on Diablo. 7.3 or 6.0, don't remember. They're within $30 of each other. Shoot me a pm with the motor and I'll get you some info. As far as Banks, my personal opinion is, they do a good job on building up the motor, but they have a lot of hype and add unnecessary parts that "backyard" driver don't need, and you pay a lot more for the hype. I can spend a half or maybe a little less and build something that will be just as fast. They do pretty good, you just end up paying for more than you really need with their "packages". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUNEDEMON Posted October 6, 2004 Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 What parts are unnecessary? I tend to think that they do more product development and testing that any other company out there, plus they work hand in hand with the OE's, software companies during the developmental stages. fast is one thing but reliable is another, not trying to flame here, just looking for some fact and fair opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sredish Posted October 6, 2004 Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 What parts are unnecessary? I tend to think that they do more product development and testing that any other company out there, plus they work hand in hand with the OE's, software companies during the developmental stages. fast is one thing but reliable is another, not trying to flame here, just looking for some fact and fair opinion. Aaight, here's an example. Banks Six Gun Pack = $1934 Six-Gun Tuner 4" Stainless Exhaust EGT & Boost Guage Advertised +138 /+231 Add an Intercooler and a High-Ram intake for another $1175 and up your hp/tq to +156/+275 Most people aren't going to install their intercooler and the Hi-Ram so add labor and the trouble to find someone to install it to that. What I'd do = $1150 Edge Juice Module (w/ Attitude +120/+290) Edge Attitude (digital display with EGT & Boost, has Tranny adjustments, Low boost fueling and fuel backdown for EGT control) 4" Stainless Exhaust (good for another 20 to 30 horses) AFE Pro Guard Intake = $275 Not included in above price, and will add another 25 horses. (Stage II not available for the 6.0 Ford.) You could swap the Edge stuff for a Diablo Programmer and an EGT & Boost setup and subtract $125 from that. So, take the extra money you saved from the Banks stuff and buy a set of wheels. And I guarantee 100%, there is no sacrifice in reliability. With the exhaust your over their hp/tq numbers and well over with the AFE Intake. I ran my 7.3 with similar mods and much more for 3 years and 80k miles and NEVER ONCE in the shop, no lie. Had added over 200 horses and almost 400 lbs of torque for the same cost of the Banks. As I said, I'm not saying Banks is bad, their products work well, but they are overpriced $/hp, and most of it is in the name. Well, that's my opinion anyway. I have other mfgs. that I deal with as well, but the above is just an example of how far your money can go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUNEDEMON Posted October 6, 2004 Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 The above is for a Ford I 'm guessing? The reason for my initial inquiry is that I have some very good friends at Banks, both on a personal and professional level. Be that as it may I know from first hand experience that they perform extensive testing on all their products before their release. My dad has an '01 Dodge 3/4 ton 4WD with the 24V Cummins, I installed their (Banks) complete pkg on his truck, I think it was called the "Power Pack TLC Plus". After installation I took the truck to Banks for a pull on the dyno, it made 403HP / 713LB/FT with their kit. The truck will make 30LBS of boost, and the "otto mind" computer reads signals from the sensors ensuring fail safe operation (over fueling = high EGT's, converter lock up, ect.., then sends those signals to the guages) The truck gets 22 MPG around town, 26 MPG on the highway, and roughly 23MPG pulling a 30' / 11000LB travel trailer. My friend Kevin (the guy who built my banshee engine / swing arm / a arms) used to have a F250 with the 7.3, again full Banks kit, loads of power, no problems (he ended up going with the non-legal "Big Hoss" chip and it would smoke under WOT when loaded) Now he has a 04 Dodge with the HO Cummins, Banks exhaust, 6 gun with speed loader, loads of power (faster than his old 7.3PS) no problems. My other friend Travis (guy with the red Funco sand rail) has a new '04 HD with the D-Max (new LLY engine not the old LB7) It's going to Banks next week for them to finilize the development of the LLY kit. Sorry for rambling andf all the run on sentances, but the point I was getting at is that you can save some $$ with non-Banks power components but the extra $$ you spend with them is cheap insurance in my book. The edge stuff makes big power no doubt, but it's causing issues with injectors in the D-Max, and lift pumps in the Power Strokes 7.3 and 6.0, not to mention outrageous EGT's & GOBBS of smoke, plus they just turn your tranny into a time bomb, unless you've already dropped som coin with ATS, but thats another story... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sredish Posted October 6, 2004 Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 I'm not saying your wrong, but I haven't experienced any of those issues with the Edge products, however, I don not deal with Duramaxes at all. Just not many around here. My truck has zero smoke. I mean, zero. If I want a little, I can pump up my low-boost fuel and get some when I first stomp it, but it clears up. I can slam it in my high setting and hit the governor at 100 and never go over on my EGT's and if I did for some reason, it will back the fuel off just enough to keep my EGT's safe. I have no doubt your friends and family have good luck with Banks, their products do perform. Oh well, not to drag this thread on. Everybody has their own views and there's nothing wrong with that, and I wouldn't be embarassed to have Banks on the side of my truck. However, I do fight a budget with most things, truck and shee included, and I feel I can get more for my money elsewhere. If a person was to ask me about Banks, I'd say they have a good product. I'm the kind of person anyway, who will try something for 6 months, then rip it out and try something else, well, in regards to my truck anyway. Cool, check ya later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUNEDEMON Posted October 6, 2004 Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 Sorry if I came off like an ass, wasn't trying to argue with you - just convey my experience I'll be interested to see what Evil & Boonman have to say.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sredish Posted October 6, 2004 Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 Sorry if I came off like an ass, wasn't trying to argue with you - just convey my experience yea, it's cool. me neither. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evil Posted October 7, 2004 Report Share Posted October 7, 2004 well heres my real world findings as i agree with both of you. the edge did some really weird shit to my rig and i was not impressed with it at all, come to find out it was indeed the cause of some major damage to a few trucks, this i know, thats why i sent it back and went with the banks stuff. banks offers more fail safe stuff then any other programmer and module out there so im my opinion its worth the extra money and the name. i have all of my banks stuff except the 6 gun and speed loader. it made a huge inprovement over stock. the thing im not looking forward to is drilling a hole in my dash, but with the arrival of the 4 lightforce h.i.d.'s and the donahoe racing bumper im going to have to cut holes in the dash to mount the switches so the banks 6 gun will be going in on sunday. hell, its only money. i love you guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boonman Posted October 7, 2004 Report Share Posted October 7, 2004 Alright, there will soon be a head to head comparo of Banks Vs. backyard Boonman. My neighbor has an '02 powerstroke, and I have an '03. HE just received his Banks powerpack, with the Bighoss chip, intercooler, the whole shot. I will be going another route. Now, to address some issues here. The ONLY thing you will gain from Banks, is failsafe, "idiot proof" programming. This can be accomplished by ANYONE on the market, by tying in the Pyrometer to the tuning module(s). This has been accomplished by Edge products recently. Now, I do NOT like Edge any longer. I ran an Edge Evolution tuner, and it did wierd shit to my truck. I did not like the shifting, and it smoked excessively, and ran High EGT's. Now, I am currently running a TS chip. 6 stage flip. Compareable to the six gun. Being that there are 6 stages. (oddly enough). Now, the tranny issue with Fords, is an issue with any automatic tranny's diesel out there. Dodge is no exception, neither is a Duramax. ANY time you moda diesel, you are putting it out of the engineered "safe zone". BAnks trys to accomplish this with their transcommand. It works, but is only a band aid. There is no stock off the shelf tranny available from any of the OEM's that will stand up to the power of a "hot-rodded" diesel. I know plenty of people with all makes. Now, my truck, currently has little to no smoke. And it hauls ass. VERY safe EGT's. I am making 35 PSI boost if I keep my foot in it. I do not run that consistently, because a stock Ford turbo and intercooler flex boots are reliable to about 25 PSI. This is fact on a 7.3 engine. Now, my de-fueling is located in my head. I atch the EGT gauge like a hawk. I drive/live by the guages. If the EGT is approaching 1250-1300 degrees, it's simple, back out of it. Banks does this for you. I don't need it. For a simple, bolt on kit with no worries, Banks is the shit. For the "masses". For me, and anyone with half a brain, you can accomplish the same thing, at half the cost. Now, I am at a little under a $1200 investment in my truck, and for another $400 in a turbo housing, and impellar wheel, I will be able to smoke about any Diesel I come up against. ANd certainly anyone running a Banks kit. Once I get enough $ for a new tranny, (mine is still fine, but I am planning ahead) I will be sending my chip back for new programming. more power in the upper 2 stages, and I will dump off my 50 and 75 settings. I don't need them. I hauled a 10,000 equipment trailer in the 100 HP setting, and NEVRER once had to back out of it. I had the pedal to the floor, accelerating up some pretty steep grades, to see what she'd do. I was as I was pulling 90+ MPH easily. ANd stil had plenty more to go. The truck flat out rips. I can't wait to get it on a dyno. To see what it is pulling. It is insane. I ran a mustang on the way backfrom Long Island this weekend, with a 4,000# deckover 25' trailer unloaded and I laid a whoopin on him. I have yet to runmy buddies Banks 6.0L. I am interested to see what will happen. I am fairly positive that I will smoke him. ANd I know I will take my neighbors Banks 7.3 next weekend. Different strokes for different folks. I KNOW I can put something together better Banks. Not in the "power for the masses" sense. But for MY truck. Banks is commercialized. They can't put something in the truck knowing there may ba a possible danger. The only thing Banks gives that I can't get cheaper is de-fueling. And I don't want it. Don't need it, and there are better ways out there to make power from a diesel........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sredish Posted October 7, 2004 Report Share Posted October 7, 2004 (edited) The newer trannies behind the 6.0 and durapuke are so computerized, it often takes quite a few miles or a battery reset to get the modules to control the tranny correctly. I did go through that with my pickup, not once, but twice and dang near everytime I throw in a different module or programmer. I do feel that the Diablo setup is probably more friendly to the "backyard brotha", less to worry about and probably put together a little better and control the tranny better, but I can get more power from Edge and once "learned", the tranny isn't really an issue. Soon, I"m gonna be stacking the Edge module with the Diablo programmer, running the Edge on a lower setting and cranking the Diablo all the way up and run some tests. I know there's quite a few peeps that are doing this at the strip already. Gotta love diesels, so simple, yet so damn strong. I just need some 4.10 gears and some 37"s. Boonman, when you gettin here to help me swap my gears. Edited October 7, 2004 by sredish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUNEDEMON Posted October 7, 2004 Report Share Posted October 7, 2004 Good info there guys! That was what I was looking for, and I think we all agree on some points, which is good. Anyone want to talk tranny's now? My knowledege in this area is very limmited, but I have heard good things about ATS's stuff..............Boonman? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broke Posted October 7, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2004 Keep up the great information, I have nothing to add to any of this because I have no diesel knowledge, but already learning alot. Are any of these parts just bolt ons? And is there any way to trace if the truck has had any of these parts on it? I would just like the warranty to last until at least half way through the payments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lincster Posted October 8, 2004 Report Share Posted October 8, 2004 Keep up the great information, I have nothing to add to any of this because I have no diesel knowledge, but already learning alot. Are any of these parts just bolt ons? And is there any way to trace if the truck has had any of these parts on it? I would just like the warranty to last until at least half way through the payments. As far as warranty goes..... Just remember.... "If you wanna play, you're gonna pay". If you put in a programmer with a 6" lift and 37" tires, don't go into the dealership asking for a new tranny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broke Posted October 8, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2004 Keep up the great information, I have nothing to add to any of this because I have no diesel knowledge, but already learning alot. Are any of these parts just bolt ons? And is there any way to trace if the truck has had any of these parts on it? I would just like the warranty to last until at least half way through the payments. As far as warranty goes..... Just remember.... "If you wanna play, you're gonna pay". If you put in a programmer with a 6" lift and 37" tires, don't go into the dealership asking for a new tranny. That's when common sense comes into play. I understand that. What I was really asking is if some of the electronic parts were just plug ins or did they need to be spliced in? And if they did anything to the computer that would show up even after being removed if warranty work was needed. I most likely won't be touching this thing for a long time, I was just curious. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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