RagunCajun Posted July 4, 2010 Report Share Posted July 4, 2010 (edited) Only thing i dont like about a supercharger is it takes power to turn it from the engine. Also as it compresses the air, it becomes hotter. But no lag from a supercharger is awesome. Great for playing around. As mentioned there are ways to spool up a turbo before launching. 2 step, spray it etc. An intercooler can help that but intercooled turbo inlet temps will be cooler than roots or twin screw supercharger inlet temps imo. Although spraying a small shot of nitrous before the blower will cool inlet temps A LOT, And all of that adds weight and can mean a difference, more difficult class to race. Nitrous and forced induction are both power adders Edited July 4, 2010 by RagunCajun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rb0804 Posted July 4, 2010 Report Share Posted July 4, 2010 I'm not trying to be dick, but why would a 2 stroke work better with a roots style blower? because if the crankshaft is turning it is producing boost. Positive displacement means that if the blower is turning it is making boost. With the turbo you have to worry about the exhaust velocity and temperature. If you loose some fresh charge out of the exhaust it is going to cool the exhaust gases and slow the turbo down. The problem with the roots is that they make excessive heat when you try to spin them hard and it takes a good bit of power to make them turn. A centrifugal blower (like a vortec) would probably work well also as it is more efficient then the roots and takes less power to turn. I am not sure how hard you have to turn them to make boost though. Nitrous is the best option for a two stroke as it is fairly simple, cheap, and requires no power to get power. I haven't seen anyone build a nitrous only engine yet, they are all high HP NA engines and then they spray a little bit of NOS to increase the ET/MPH a bit. If someone was to build a nitrous specific engine it would run really well, but would be a bit on the slow side without it. Every setup has its pros and cons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevota84 Posted July 4, 2010 Report Share Posted July 4, 2010 Are there any blown banshee's around? I've played around some with boosted snowmobiles and was under the impression that a blower wouldn't work well in a two stroke without some kind of timed valve in the exhaust to keep all the boost in the cylinder and not just blowing out the exhaust with the intake charge. I'm considering building a turbo banshee so I'm looking to learn about this stuff. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvr2xtreme Posted July 4, 2010 Report Share Posted July 4, 2010 . I haven't seen anyone build a nitrous only engine yet, they are all high HP NA engines and then they spray a little bit of NOS to increase the ET/MPH a bit. If someone was to build a nitrous specific engine it would run really well, but would be a bit on the slow side without it. Every setup has its pros and cons. Im building mine as we speak. Nitrous nut motor. Currently 60 shot out the gate n the entire run. Once the bugs are gone for sure going for 100 shot. Ill let ya know how it goes, as thats what im doing now on mine. And yes your right, its slow without the gas due to all the timing retards, lower compression and colder plug changes and the super rich mixture it requires. So far it cant be run long before gas fouling plugs. This is a paved track dragster. Its a hell of a ride and fairly cheap to build till pre-detonation that is and you break a rod or 2 and gotta buy a new cylinder..lol.. but im still at the drawing board trying to work it all out so its consistant every run and ive got a few more things to try and i know they are going to work. they really dont build ne "nitrous motor" parts. right now the rods are the weak point after you hit the 50 shot stage n up. but i would love to c a complete turbo set up that is reliable. i know it would be a lil easier on the engine, a lil slower rush instead of the shotgun style kick n the but that nitrous gives the motor. I thought of running a progressive controller but then you run into the weight issue. so for now, go until she blow..lol.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johstoncounty banshee Posted July 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2010 no i have not fuckin give up... right now im goin through a damn divorce...which sucks really bad. on the other hand i have been workin with the launch control on the banshee and the clutch basket exploded so i must be doin somethin right lol so now i have orderd a billet basket and straight cut gears which should be here friday. and i am still tryin to get up the money to get a smaller turbo and i have video i will put up soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RagunCajun Posted July 4, 2010 Report Share Posted July 4, 2010 the clutch basket exploded so i must be doin somethin right that made me lol! Dont give up buddy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-Madd Posted July 5, 2010 Report Share Posted July 5, 2010 Maybe he gave up? No updates for awhile. The two strokes have problems with the losing the charge out of the exhaust which is going to make it hard to tune. The turbo also has to be matched to the application or it will never work, no matter how hard you try. The two strokes work better with a positive displacement blower like the 'roots'style, but they don't like to pull a lot of RPM. I have seen plenty of people try to turbo a banshee and when it gets down to the end like this, you hear very little about it. I will be building a turbo shee here shortly and will be trying some things that have not been tried before. If it works out I am sure you will hear about it, and if it doesn't then you probably won't. lol You've seen a blown 2-stroke? This has been discussed many times and the concensus has always been that too much power will be robbed from the crankshaft to net any gain with a blower. I've seen several turbo and turbo plus nitrous Banshees (both twin and tripple cylinder.) The ones that make it down the track scream. THose that don't........well they don't sound so good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rb0804 Posted July 7, 2010 Report Share Posted July 7, 2010 Im building mine as we speak. Nitrous nut motor. Currently 60 shot out the gate n the entire run. Once the bugs are gone for sure going for 100 shot. Ill let ya know how it goes, as thats what im doing now on mine. And yes your right, its slow without the gas due to all the timing retards, lower compression and colder plug changes and the super rich mixture it requires. So far it cant be run long before gas fouling plugs. This is a paved track dragster. Its a hell of a ride and fairly cheap to build till pre-detonation that is and you break a rod or 2 and gotta buy a new cylinder..lol.. but im still at the drawing board trying to work it all out so its consistant every run and ive got a few more things to try and i know they are going to work. they really dont build ne "nitrous motor" parts. right now the rods are the weak point after you hit the 50 shot stage n up. but i would love to c a complete turbo set up that is reliable. i know it would be a lil easier on the engine, a lil slower rush instead of the shotgun style kick n the but that nitrous gives the motor. I thought of running a progressive controller but then you run into the weight issue. so for now, go until she blow..lol.. Glad to see someone is giving it a shot. I am going to assume your spraying 60 total (30 per hole). I have found that if you run the fuel side of the nozzle a little on the rich side (stagger the fuel jet a size or two larger then the NOS jet), it will be a bit 'softer' on the hit You can change the timing and the plugs back to what you would normally run if you weren't using the nitrous. The Dyna box makes that easy because you can switch between curves. The down side of the Dyna box is that I have heard that running +10 on the plate is not the same as running +10 in the box. no i have not fuckin give up... right now im goin through a damn divorce...which sucks really bad. on the other hand i have been workin with the launch control on the banshee and the clutch basket exploded so i must be doin somethin right lol so now i have orderd a billet basket and straight cut gears which should be here friday. and i am still tryin to get up the money to get a smaller turbo and i have video i will put up soon. That really sucks, sorry to hear about your situation. Have any pictures of the clutch failure? Hope things work out for you. You've seen a blown 2-stroke? This has been discussed many times and the concensus has always been that too much power will be robbed from the crankshaft to net any gain with a blower. I've seen several turbo and turbo plus nitrous Banshees (both twin and tripple cylinder.) The ones that make it down the track scream. THose that don't........well they don't sound so good. That is the problem with those type of blowers, they take a decent bit of power to turn. To answer your question, No I have not seen a Roots style supercharged two stroke (other then the one that trick racing did). I thought that there were some centrifugal supercharged 250R's out in Cali, maybe the guy that did a lot of testing for the Puma? At any rate, I forgot the word 'should' in my last statement, in that they should run better with a roots. Sorry of the confusion. I have also seen the turbos go both ways with some running good sometimes and not so good other times. It is something that interests me and hopefully I will be able to play with it here sometime in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickedcarbine Posted July 8, 2010 Report Share Posted July 8, 2010 Johnstoncounty, give these a look if you're serious about buying a better huffer. Give these a look. Aerocharger.com I found out about them when i was designing an out of budget for now motor with Dan Hull of A&S Racing. There used to be a SUCCESSFULL turbo build on their site, but they are growing so fast right now their site is always changing. The guy at our local bike show runs one on his street registered cr500. Super nuts! These things are ultra reliable and self contained like the procharger units, so less work and weight are involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camatv Posted July 12, 2010 Report Share Posted July 12, 2010 i've blown stock baskets up with around 65ish hp stock cylinder 350's.. turbo, banshee, and budget just dosent go together, and thats usually how it all starts. the variable vane self lubed turbo is the correct start for one, and then injection i feel is the next step. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johstoncounty banshee Posted July 14, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2010 For pics of the clutch basket and other parts check my build thread here. www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=104&t=36333 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rb0804 Posted July 21, 2010 Report Share Posted July 21, 2010 What are you running for the new turbo? It is good that you ditched the old one because the exhaust side of the turbo is too big for your application and those turbos have small shafts that tend to break in the event of a backfire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snopczynski Posted July 22, 2010 Report Share Posted July 22, 2010 i've blown stock baskets up with around 65ish hp stock cylinder 350's.. turbo, banshee, and budget just dosent go together, and thats usually how it all starts. the variable vane self lubed turbo is the correct start for one, and then injection i feel is the next step. I blew the teeth off 3 different stock baskets in a week one summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camatv Posted July 29, 2010 Report Share Posted July 29, 2010 YIKES!! in my opinon the stock baskets limit to HP holding is about 55-65 hp. you dump the clutch hard on paddles nad your going to snap fingers off.. of course the weak part of hinson + wiseco baskets is the bolts that hold the weak plate on. kinda sucks the stock oem backing plate is STUPID hard and wont flex BUT the basket itself is crappy, the aftermarket basket is strong but the backing plate is junk. there are many aftermarket baskets available now that have this backing plate issue resolved.. i still prefer the straight cut spring loaded basket on the higher hp motors.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowriderb Posted August 22, 2010 Report Share Posted August 22, 2010 its been a while but i finally had time to work on getting my turbo build rolling.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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