POORBOY350 Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 That is still a pipe that should only be used on a stock cylinder with a dune port. Anything more agressive than that will be killed by the pipe. Poorboy you should be able to sell your pipes and buy a set of cpi's. Paul turners have a high resale value especially if your chorme is in great shape. When you get ready to buy if you want the best chrome get them from www.cascadeinnovations.net If a mid grade chrome is ok with you then PM Frogger on here. He can hook you up with killer prices. tell him I send ya. josh see thanks for that. my chrome is in good shape theyre are some lil bumps on the side facing motor but they could be polished and look brand new. what would they sell for cause i'd love to have some cpi's. how much re tuning would i have to do?not trying to jack your thread either man sorry i just need to know this stuff so does everyone else that dont know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooker82 Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 t-5's on my cub when i play ride for where we play in the deep sand and trees the drag pipes (cpi, shear, etc.) don't work well. I have a set of CPI big bore out frames that I put on once every so often but they have no silencers and are to friggin loud.....If all you are goingto do is run the open sand and nothing technical where you are looking for more bottom to mid range power the CPI of shearer pipes are the way to go. CPI quality control sucks ass.... If CPI's and Shearer's dont work well for the type of riding your doing then you clearly have the wrong cylinder sitting on top of your cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooker82 Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 CPI quality control sucks ass.... There is other options than getting them from CPI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiz Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 well my cyclenders work fine, I have ran many different styles and configurations what I have now runs and pulls the hardest. I am sure not many ride in the conditions or places I go, Simple fact of it is that CPI and Shearer are drag pipes, they are made for the highest amount of hp at peak RPM while sacraficing the torqe and low end of a big bore stroker motor. If you do not drag race much and play down in the tree shots or in the trails these pipes are not best suited for your ridding style. there is a compromise in either direction you go and that is something that trial and error works best for. I had a set of CPI in frames and I have a set of out frames, the out frames work really well for drag pipes. while my T-5's work way better in tight on the throttle off the throttle and clutch areas. I also said that CPI quality control suckes not there customer service. they have been getting better but it seemed for a long time no set of pipes ever fit rite, one side would be good but the other would have to take spacers behind or in front of pipe mounts to get the pipe to fit rite and clear everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooker82 Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 Simple fact of it is that CPI and Shearer are drag pipes, they are made for the highest amount of hp at peak RPM while sacraficing the torqe and low end of a big bore stroker motor. That is the same thing a Cub cylinder does. You really going to tell me a Drag Ported Cylinder doesnt sacrafice bottom end? The only thing your T5's are doing on your Cub cylinder is stuffing it up on the top end wich makes the power band hit less harsh. They are not giving you bottom end they are taking away top end. Cub Cylinder = Drag Ported Cylinder Out of the Box = Drag Pipe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiz Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 (edited) dude if you think that cub cylinders are drag cylinders you need to seriously go re-evaluate what is out there. Just because they are ported the way they are out of the castings does not make them drag cylinders. Calvin developed these cyclenders for bolt on performance not as drag set up They were intially built as an idea that friends of his from glamis area that have play bikes wanted more power for ridding in the big sand. Hence why the cub is not made in any version bigger than 68mm bore. Sure drag ported cylinders sacrafice bottom end but there is more to factor in besides porting, like bore, stroke, timing and compression. To compare a 68 bore X 68 stroke cub motor to a set of drag ported stock cylinders is just not in the cards, Those 2 motors do not run alike or make even close to the same power curve. AND explain this, if the T-5's don't make any more bottom end power or torqe why do they come up on the pipe quicker? Or when you are off the throttle an have to manuver and get back on the throttle the t-5's will come back on and with the CPI's you will have to either downshift or clutch the motor? Sounds like the t-5's make more bottom end power to me... I think it is fairly obvious just by looking at the pipe design and the chamber size what each of these pipes are made for that does not take rocket science, the bigger the chamber the more fuel load the pipe will take. I do believe you are correct on saying that the t-5's hold back the cubs top end potential no doubt. but your ESTIMATION that the CPI design makes as much bottom end power and torque is mistakenly off. And according to your signature you don't even own a cub motor so do you have any experience that makes you so positive on your results? Also According to YOUR motor builder (quote "* Spec 1 porting will add more mid and top-end power- great for the dune riders who like to hill-race! ") how is he doing that epoxy the boost ports back closed? quote "* Spec 1 porting will add more mid and top-end power- great for the dune riders who like to hill-race! " Edited December 9, 2008 by Wiz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajogejr Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 dude if you think that cub cylinders are drag cylinders you need to seriously go re-evaluate what is out there. Just because they are ported the way they are out of the castings does not make them drag cylinders. Calvin developed these cyclenders for bolt on performance not as drag set up They were intially built as an idea that friends of his from glamis area that have play bikes wanted more power for ridding in the big sand. Hence why the cub is not made in any version bigger than 68mm bore. Sure drag ported cylinders sacrafice bottom end but there is more to factor in besides porting, like bore, stroke, timing and compression. To compare a 68 bore X 68 stroke cub motor to a set of drag ported stock cylinders is just not in the cards, Those 2 motors do not run alike or make even close to the same power curve. AND explain this, if the T-5's don't make any more bottom end power or torqe why do they come up on the pipe quicker? Or when you are off the throttle an have to manuver and get back on the throttle the t-5's will come back on and with the CPI's you will have to either downshift or clutch the motor? Sounds like the t-5's make more bottom end power to me... I think it is fairly obvious just by looking at the pipe design and the chamber size what each of these pipes are made for that does not take rocket science, the bigger the chamber the more fuel load the pipe will take. I do believe you are correct on saying that the t-5's hold back the cubs top end potential no doubt. but your ESTIMATION that the CPI design makes as much bottom end power and torque is mistakenly off. And according to your signature you don't even own a cub motor so do you have any experience that makes you so positive on your results? Also According to YOUR motor builder (quote "* Spec 1 porting will add more mid and top-end power- great for the dune riders who like to hill-race! ") how is he doing that epoxy the boost ports back closed? quote "* Spec 1 porting will add more mid and top-end power- great for the dune riders who like to hill-race! " What planet are you on? The Cheetah was one of the original drag aftermarket cylinders. The cubs are based on them, but allow for stock banshee pipes, head and intake to be bolted on. Show me a single port job out there that has triple exhaust and is meant for MX or trail style riding. These cylinders are meant for hill shooting and drag racing, period. To tell yourself otherwise is foolish. Putting T5s on a cub motor is like putting a an exhaust manifold, catalytic converter and full 2 inch exhaust on a top fuel dragster motor. It makes no sense. And yes, I've owed a 4 mil cub, currently own a 10 mil cub, ran the 4 mil on gas with T5 pipes and stock carbs while my Shearer/RDZ inframes and 35PWKs were on order... I've run CPI and Shearer on my 10 mil as well. So I think I know what I'm talking about. You can add compression and timing to bring the power spread down a little in the RPM range. Too much compression and timing will sacrifice overrev and top end....however. Calvin made these cylinders as a cheaper alternative to the Cheetah Cylinders and to use stock banshee parts. If he wanted these to be a trail/MX cylinder...tell me why he didn't put a powervalve in the cub motor? Because at Max RPM you don't need a powervalve...it's all the way open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanYE west Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 Hence why the cub is not made in any version bigger than 68mm bore. They do make a cub bigger then 68mm bore. They make them up to 72 and 73mm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajogejr Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 I almost posted that about the super cub Shayne, but I didn't want that be to confused for a trail/mx motor... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanYE west Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 I almost posted that about the super cub Shayne, but I didn't want that be to confused for a trail/mx motor... ohhh.. you mean 110+hp with a light swtich powerband isn't a trail motor? my bad....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POORBOY350 Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 What planet are you on? The Cheetah was one of the original drag aftermarket cylinders. The cubs are based on them, but allow for stock banshee pipes, head and intake to be bolted on. Show me a single port job out there that has triple exhaust and is meant for MX or trail style riding. These cylinders are meant for hill shooting and drag racing, period. To tell yourself otherwise is foolish. Putting T5s on a cub motor is like putting a an exhaust manifold, catalytic converter and full 2 inch exhaust on a top fuel dragster motor. It makes no sense. And yes, I've owed a 4 mil cub, currently own a 10 mil cub, ran the 4 mil on gas with T5 pipes and stock carbs while my Shearer/RDZ inframes and 35PWKs were on order... I've run CPI and Shearer on my 10 mil as well. So I think I know what I'm talking about. You can add compression and timing to bring the power spread down a little in the RPM range. Too much compression and timing will sacrifice overrev and top end....however. Calvin made these cylinders as a cheaper alternative to the Cheetah Cylinders and to use stock banshee parts. If he wanted these to be a trail/MX cylinder...tell me why he didn't put a powervalve in the cub motor? Because at Max RPM you don't need a powervalve...it's all the way open. I really am trying to understand all this lol but man this stuff is so confusing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajogejr Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 Fouledout and I are of the same opinion that cubs and Cheetahs are not just bolt on performance increases like Wiz typed. Because of their design, port layout, power characteristics, etc....they are strict dune/drag race cylinders. They make a lot of power in a small RPM range. When you're spending most of your time 3/4 throttle to wide open....these are great cylinders. Wiz' point is they can be made to be more....detuned, neutered, etc. My counter point is you can make a top fuel dragster into a grocery getter, but there are better ways.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanYE west Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 My counter point is you can make a top fuel dragster into a grocery getter, but there are better ways.... Not to mention.. cheaper. Why spend the money on a motor designed to make all its power ontop.. just to take it away by choking it down to make it more "rideable". There are other options available that will give you better performance and power spread at a cheaper price.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POORBOY350 Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 Fouledout and I are of the same opinion that cubs and Cheetahs are not just bolt on performance increases like Wiz typed.Because of their design, port layout, power characteristics, etc....they are strict dune/drag race cylinders. They make a lot of power in a small RPM range. When you're spending most of your time 3/4 throttle to wide open....these are great cylinders. Wiz' point is they can be made to be more....detuned, neutered, etc. My counter point is you can make a top fuel dragster into a grocery getter, but there are better ways.... i wish i knew more about their design, port layout, power characteristics,ect. what can be done with them, what kinda power they can make, everything pretty much. so i can think of the best setup for me and know what to do to get what kinda power. i have them so i wanna know them. i have asked this before but i just try to fully understand them and why they are what they are and how they work, what they run best like, ect ect. why they are best at wide open to 3/4 throttle. will it hurt it being detuned,why.or is it just the fact that there is so much more power there to be made,how? i know what yal are saying about detuning these motors.(look at my bike).i didnt build it but it is a 4mil cub 35mm pwk's,vforce3's,20cc domes, and pt mids. like you said these cylinders are able to make alot of power on the top end, thats what they are made for right? so having these 'mid' pipes on it is stopping it from even getting into where it is best at and makes ''its'' power. i can def tell it has alot left in it when i gotta shift cause these pipes. or something like that. but yes i get your counter point it is pointless... mine is prime example(which idk how bad it is to detune it) but i will know when i get it setup how i want it with new pipes and whatever else i can do to make it run the best for what i use it for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajogejr Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 I don't want you to think that the bike won't run as it is now...it will. But for the kind of power you're looking for based on those mods, a nice dune port on stockers will do just as well, and MUCH cheaper. Throw in that 4 mil crank in a stocker cylinder, they run very healthy. In order to get the most out of your cylinders, as said...bigger carbs, freer flowing exhaust (CPI, Shearer) but once you do that...you will have a harder hitting, narrower spread of useable power. And I promise you just can't throw some knobby tires on it and expect it to hook up, shift properly under full throttle, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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