SlowerThanYou

The only formula needed for the Circus is Baby formula, for these young snot nosed brats.

Your a Circus AssClown, more so than your ass boy son LILSTVN.

I agree, X many! Wow, this is a new era. Dave & I actually agreeing, just joking.

You left yourself out, your the Head Know-It-All.

There you go, put him on your staff. Then you will truly have the fastest racer's on the planet.

Colby : fast people go to www.sandslingers.com This guy knows more than you, LOL!

You must be the quiz? moderator! Must be another forum rule I didn't know about. If someone starts a thread they can't ask questions, LOL!

Plenty of wins & records with a 1st gear launch! Really, if it wasn't for your keyboard racer's you wouldn't have the HQ Circus.

Somebody is getting it, but there's still more.

I'm sharing what I know for the most part. Is there some forum rule that says I have to tell everything if I start a topic, No! I can't think of everything when keyboarding a topic. Maybe you're perfect & can, but it's not going to happen with me. For your 2nd paragraph, you are getting caught up with what you think is happening. You have no idea what rpm we pulled with our old motor & 9999 isn't close. You & other's haven't figured out how other motorsports tuning, testing, technology, set-ups, etc. applies to ATVs. We use that experience to help our quad, you can't understand it if you haven't done it. I'm glad you are considering this. Just the same as I'm open to trying the 2nd gear launch. When I get the right trans or have more than one ATV to do multiple surfaces. As for the rant, part of that was directed at you. You may or may not of indirectly pointed the finger in the SB. Something was said about our 30 + years drag racing, then came along something about preaching and then a broken record. If someone doesn't like that, refer back to my rant. Now, you commented on the gearing spread. It's now worse than what you thought. No, we are not using a heavier flywheel. Now, lets discuss what happens with the 1st gear launch & it's not just about your below quote. " I figure with your ratio you get about 43mph in 1st gear @9999 rpm with 24" tires Would you beleive im at the same mph with a 2nd gear start?" I'm going to ask you a question(s), based on the scenario above. Is this the only thing going on during this period? This is the discussing/discussion portion, have at it.

Please clarify the 1st sentence. Are you talking about the ratio spread between the gears & the RPM drop that occurs at the shift? The 443 cub motor we primarily ran the stock ratio primaries, but started with the 2.68s. The 643 DMX motor we have 2.54 primaries & looks like we might be changing them to a 2.68.

There you go, something else you can be a master of. You are almost getting as good as your know-it-all father, LocoHomo.

I will repeat this, I'm not twisting anyone's arms on any of my threads or posts. It's my thoughts & opinions, like everyone else's in the HQ Circus. It's fine when my information fits the needs of certain HQ AssClown's. Then when they don't get the information they want to hear or the answer they want. They get all butt hurt. If you don't want to read it, do it, or anything else. It's no skin off my back. To the other's that get it, when used with other things properly it pays off in low 60' times. That's the decision. We have pulled mid-low 1.30 60's with both the stock (2.46) 1st gear ratio & the aftermarket (2.54) 1st gear ratio. The 2.54 is good for about a .01-.03 depending on set-up/conditions. Now, ponder on that ratio spread. The 2.54 makes the 1-2 spread even worse. We do a couple of different things to make that work with both ratios. We just have to be a little more extreme with the 2.54. This stuff was learned on our drag cars & our 30+ years experience. If someone doesn't like it, it's not my problem. Fill out your HQ AssClown hurt feelings report & submit it to the HMFIC.

X many! This is what work for us & we use it in our different types of racing. This is how we rank our priorities. The Quickest ET is our first goal, 60' is 2nd & works great to support the 1st goal. Last, but not least is mph. While it provides information, it's low on our priorities.

I guess you didn't catch the last part of the above quote. Here's a little tidbit of the puzzle, we change the 1st gear ratio.

LOL! Maybe they don't, but this recovery was a lot shorter than the 1st one. The first recovery was almost a year & a half & they were happy to have me back. Not too many Companies would do that for their employees!

Maybe we are getting somewhere now, instead of chasing our tails. I'm not going to hold my breath though, LOL! We use our 30 + years of drag racing cars to help with the quad. There's a term referred to as a starting line ratio or launch ratio & probably call other things. There's usually an ideal range for any given style vehicle. While I'm no expert with the quad, we are learning pretty fast. There are calculators for our drag cars to figure this stuff out. Plus, you have to use experience, usually the more; the better. I have yet to find one for the quad, but I do my own calculations & they seem to work. Essentially, we try to get a better mechanical advantage/torque multiplication at the launch. You can have too much or not enough & that is key. We seem to have found the ideal ratio on the old 443 cub. We have not found it on the DMX yet, among other things. Hope that solves your WHY!

I wouldn't hold my breath, LOL! The motor should be together the end of next week. Then we have to find time to take it to K&T for dyno testing. Plus, my 2 month recovery should end around the middle of June. Lots of things stacked against making it. I don't think it's to wise to ask off from work after being gone for 2 1/2 months.

Your not way off, we just see things differently on this subject. It doesn't make me/you right or wrong. Your quote is confusing: Why use mph as a reference to something common or put into feelings it was way faster. All of that's pretty irrelevant if you were timing it. Timing is the best reference to something common IMO. Nobody is twisting anyone's arm here. The 1st Gear Launch, All The Secrets! This is just a couple areas I'm sharing my thoughts/opinion(s) on this subject. I forgot, LOL! with all the secrets BS.

Possum, This is where I'm going to start on this one & most will probably not like my answer. You hill guys are all worried about mph only. While it plays a factor, the quickest quad to a set distance in a drag race. Wins regardless of the mph. Four Stroke Wars uses timers on the hill. The quicker ET along with reaction time will win the race regardless of mph!

I've answered why & I'm trying not to come off as a smart ass. Because it's producing better 60's than the vast majority of bikes. Most of which are way lighter chassis/rider's, more power, better chassis & the list goes on. Do I attribute all of our 60' to the 1st gear launch no, but it plays a big role. Along with the clutch, chassis angles, weight placement, launch rpm, transmission ratios & the list goes on. Here's why we do it, because it works for us! To each their own, if you choose to do it our not. That's your choice.

Changing the sprockets, can make the effective ratio the same for either launch ratio. You still have to deal with the transmission ratio spread between the two different 1st-2nd or 2nd-3rd launches. You keep comparing your bike to my bike. A 22cc difference is not much! 421s are one of the best builds out there. The majority of Builder's know how to get the most power per cc out of them. Plus, if we use your 2nd paragraph in the quote. You shouldn't be comparing our 2 different set-ups. There's a reason I provided that other comparison! Now, if you go to the Lock-up Tuning Thread latest posts. You will see where phunt is doing testing with the different launch gears & the clutch. Plus, he's using a 421 cub. Here's a recommendation, there's something to be learned by these different comparisons. It's almost impossible to get a 100% complete comparison. Without you building the exact same bike, riding both, same track, etc. and what's the point of that? You may or may not see my point on comparisons, but that's what you are doing with our 2 different bikes.

With the right set-up, as anything. You could make it work IMO. Is the advantage(s) clear? To me the advantage is the quickest possible 60' time. Carrying forward to the best possible ET. We, have had great success by doing that. I hate doing comparisons, but I think it's needed to prove this point. Take our old set-up: 443cc race gas cub Rider's 180 - 210 lbs. Stock Frame, 310 lbs. with front brakes 1st gear launch It pulled 1.31-1.34 60' times on both sand & asphalt. Take another very fast & proven set-up: 643cc on alky Rider(s) I'm surely less than 180 lbs. Custom chromoly frame 250 lbs. or less guessing and no front brakes 2nd gear launch, pretty sure? I saw 3 very impressive 300' time slips of this combo, 1.34 - 1.37 60' times. One bike clearly at a disadvantage & the other a well set-up sand chassis. You can make your own conclusions! Now, with your own experiences. Use what works for you, that's all that matters. Clutch tuning is key in whatever gear you launch in! Changing sprocket ratios is needed between the 2 different launch gears. We ran a 17 up front and anywhere between a 39-43 rear sprockets. There's many different ways to do things, as with most things in life. Last, but not least. We only use 1-4 gears making 3 shifts. As far as I know with the 2nd gear launch. They are using 2-5 gears making the same 3 shifts. Take it for what it's worth.

As some know we are advocates of the 1st gear launch. This is primarily necessity for the asphalt, the primary surface we run. We decided to hill shoot in early 2009 & race 300' in late 2011. We were told by most we needed to start in 2nd gear for them surfaces. Our experience & transmission (1-4, manual 5 & 6) led us to follow what we knew. Anyway, we get questions about using 1st gear launches in conversation(s) & PMs. I can only offer an opinion on the one to use, because we have never used a 2nd gear launch. Here's the number one thing I would consider in what gear to start in; overall weight, both rider/race ready quad. Somewhere around 480 lbs. & above is where I would consider using 1st gear. I only say that, because that's our lightest overall weight. It still may be advantageous to use 1st gear at a lighter weight. In my opinion 480 lbs. is the line that you need to make that decision. Another thing people are worried about is the transmission gearing spread. The 2-3 ratio has less of a spread, that equates to less of a rpm drop. It's just the opposite for the 1-2 ratio. Can this be overcome with other tuning, we try to. This is just a couple areas I'm sharing my thoughts/opinion(s) on this subject. I forgot, LOL! with all the secrets BS.

You give minimum information about your set-up. You come in here with a Noob mentality & lack of intelligent grammar. Then you wonder why you're still having problems. Don't even attempt the 1/4 mile, when your having problems with 1/8 mile. LOL!