dajogejr

We've mentioned porting over and over again. Is there a reason you're not picking up on that? If you're asking us to make your bike a bolt on world beater it flat out will not happen...period. Bolt ons will give you up to 10HP, give or take. That alone is nothing compared to the weight and power ratio, not to mention the torque, these new 450s are putting down.

IMO...sell the 4 mil and get a properly cast 10 mil. You would have to open the porting way up to work right with the 10 mil crank. Before aftermarket cylinders were involved and readily available, you could run a spacer plate or cut the head/domes to run the piston up in the head. Now a days, it's more than just piston clearance, it's port timing, etc., and a 10 mil cast cylinder would be a better choice.

My advice is if you buy their pipe...they can have you take several measurements and tell you what it was built for. But I honestly think serial numbers and tracking is asking too much of the builders and the cost would be incurred by the customer (rightfully so...) and just not be worth it. These guys aren't building these by guessing...they know which section of pipe does what and how...as long as you can read a mic and give them info ...they should be spot on in their reply to you.

If Possible, they could stamp a number into the pipe and record the specs on their end...but now we're talking a lot of extra work for the manufacturer, and that cost is going to be passed down to the consumer...where I'd rather see anyone taking on a venture like this spending time and money in R&D and performance, rather than inventory control.

Sorry...RB...I'll just agree to disagree. Tim @ Titan (as well as others I'm sure) will tell you he'll cut a set of domes for a particular motor, for a particular setup, etc. After that, he can't control what people sell/use that for, if someone else buys the setup, etc. As a manufacturer of anything, you can only control it's distribution to the original customer...past that...nadda....especially in this type of sport.

Actually, the weld on them from the factory isn't bad. However...the first thing I do is have my buddy run TIG a nice bead all the way around the pin.

Ported and override is going to go over the budget...and I don't think he's going to have the power needed for an override with what he wants to do. A dyna is only good if you spend the time on the dyno setting up the curve to your particular motor....IMO.

In my opinion, RB...it is not the manufacturer's responsibility to track what pipes they sell setup for what motor. That is the responsibility of the buyer then seller. If someone is selling you a 4 mil crank it better be as advertised....not a stocker. And so on... If someone is spending the time and cheddar on a pipe for their bike, I'd say it goes with the bike or at least the motor...

Port it. We're trying to tell you you're asking us to give you whipped cream on top of horse shit. You can do what you want...but those stock pipes are holding you back. Port it....but don't be surprised if the increase is only nominal. Engines are an air pump. The more air you get in and get out...and more efficiently you do that, the better it'll run. When you're chocking it down with stock exhaust...there's not a whole lot more point in trying to make it run faster.

You can find it cheaper on ebay I think. http://www.vitosperformance.com/atv_parts/product.php?productid=11240&cat=200&page=1 It's the same crank I bought/am running this year. They really are quality products.

Find used pipes. Get an air filter and timing plate, have someone machine .020 off your stock head and get your cylinders ported. Bolt ons alone will not beat a piped/jetted 450 with a decent rider in 300 feet. If you happen to beat one, you beat the rider or a poorly setup bike....which, happens..and a win is a win. Just not something I'd count on.

Risk isn't worth the reward when it comes to fixing pipes. Pacific Crest Pipe Repair are the masters. http://www.piperepair.com/

To be honest, antiseize on anything you plan on taking apart again is not a bad practice, as long as it's tightened down/torqued properly. I use loctite for things that could come loose from motor vibration. The flywheel nut on the motor and the intake bolts are the first things to come to mind. Normally, when it comes to frame fasteners, antiseize is a good idea.

A few things. Are you planning on keeping the stock pipes? If so...the thread ends here.... Otherwise, what is your budget?

This is just me... Before I went with a 72 super cub 4 mil I would go with a 10 mil cub, 68 bore. Since he's coming from a Cheetah cylinder, he's going to have to buy a head anyways. The crank is the killer...thought. Used, 400 or so, new, under 700. Everything else is more common and cheaper, including domes, pistons...etc.

You uh...might want to take your competitors pipe out of your sig...

A banshee motor have the same torque curve of a 4 stroke, doubtful. Add powervalves into play...possible. It's not how much torque a 4 stroke makes, it's how it makes it. It's like comparing a diesel to a gas engine...two different worlds!!!

Looking forward to real world results on both of those points!

Nope...holds just as well if not better than the DD style. It's heavier, however!

I agree...Cam is willing to help. He helped me out big time with my Lectrons...again, which I was thankful for. That's not the issue, however...his lack of understanding on site policy and how bills get paid is...even when it's clearly explained to him. As I said...if he thinks he has it down, I'd welcome him to start his own site and run it...

Cam.... Here's a brilliant idea. Think before you post. You posted a brochure for Sniper Pipes via PDF. That's it. No explanation, no nothing...no clarification, etc. Just the brochure.. Use your head.

If you get a few minutes away from turning everyone else's ride into the fastest thing around...please tell me why or what I have the heat on me for?

You'll be hard pressed to find a cheaper frame than Ray @ Motor City ATV. He's got dozens of them...literally. He goes by minkia38 on here. Sanford and Son aint' got Shit on Ray...LOL. Shipping is gonna be your killer. If that doesn't work out, hit up Tim @ Stellar for possibly a new subframe that will be stronger and lighter than stock and will be MUCH cheaper to ship.

Kickstart...I copied this word for word off the post on atvdragracers.com from the post that was deleted. Yes, it had great technical information on there...but here is why it was moved from the forum. "Our first stampings are finally in and I have a few pics and a dyno run against a very good pipe offered on the market currently. We hope to be in full production be end of summer. Special attention to physical design was based on input from my customers over the years. GOOD body english, no hitting the frame, head, carbs. You can run the stock air box, it clears the bigger cylinders. It has good plug access, and yes, it even clears a Pingle. Welcome to the new standard. Point em’ out, and take em’ down SNIPER PIPES....Jim Smart INTRODUCING....SNIPER INFRAMES " When you're talking about production and introducing a product, that's advertising any way you slice it. I'm sorry if you don't see that or feel the same way. The good thing is they are a sponsor over here now and we'd love to have them as a sponsor on ATVDR as well...a member has actually asked to help foot the bill to get him started over there...and I hope we can come to an agreement!

Jim... You are on the right track. Rob @ RDZ has lot of dyno numbers on his pipes, one of my questions for him was always why his pipes signed off at an earlier RPM than others (namely Shearer) and his answer was always why do you need to rev that high. His pipes did make a few more HP and torque and at lower RPMs. One day you'll need to make it to Planet Sand in Gilbert. That's where the big dogs race...but you know that. Rob's game is all 60 foot. He has little motors (400cc) running 1.3 60fts in sand, TONZ of paddle... His ET is excellent, and he holds the small motor record. Because of the amount of tire he runs, his MPH is not impressive...but his game is 60ft. That is who you need to gun for to be the man. I think you are spot on trying to make a pipe that may not rev as high but puts more torque out sooner...and again, for those that are following, I am absolutely praising you for your thought process and efforts. That being said... After it's all said and done, the best thing you can do is get two types of comparisons AFTER the dyno...cause no one races dynos at any track...LOL. Spend a day at the track with two things, your pipes and others...as well as YOUR motor and another motor that wasn't built by you. To truly make these pipes sell and do well, you're going to have to proove that not only do they perform on your motors...but other motors as well. Andy from M&M was going in that direction in his suggestions, and I'm with him. Please clarify something for me.... You or Gary mentioned 3 different initial configurations, I think one was gas pipe, alky pipe and a bigger motor pipe...is that correct? That being said, am I right in saying you guys can actually customize a pipe for a rider/motor's specific needs aside from the 3 basic pipes designs? That's how I read it...just wanted to make sure I was accurate in saying that. Lastly...and Jim I simply can not state this enough...and it really hits home for me. Quality...make sure the welds are quality and the construction is quality. In my opinion, what makes other pipes weak/split welds/crack has alot to do with the prep work for chroming. As you know, before metal is chromed it has to be polished. I think some times polishers remove too much metal from the welds and weaken the pipe before chroming.... A lot of people can chrome a pipe, but when you choose your chromer (if you're going to offer it in chrome) just choose wisely.... Looking forward to some real world results of these pipes...