dajogejr

Living in Detroit...this is being felt here very severely. However...it's a joke, and taking it as that...I think that's pretty funny....

Hard to say. Start off by measuring your current head cc's. Because of mass manufacturing processes, I've seen stock heads with as much as 24ccs, as little as 21. Any machine shop can just deck .020 or .030 off of it, but...it would be my recommendation to have a performance shop with a good rep cut and rechamber the head. The questions is...do you want to run pump or race fuel? This is a rough estimation compression chart, scroll down on Noss' site. http://www.nossmachine.com/banshee_heads.htm

Every engine is different. Cranking compression is not the tell tale factor in what octane gas you need, compression RATIO is... However, it's a helluva lot easier to screw in a compression gauge then for the average guy to calculate the compression ratio. It involves several measurements. That being said.... In my opinion, 21cc domes and +4 advance and you should be ok with 93 pump gas. Although bumping timing and compression don't usually require a jet change (that small of changes anyway) it's a good idea to make sure you start off a bit rich and jet down.

It will be much easier to take the air box off...to be honest...rather than trying to squeeze in there, IMO. I used a skim coat of RTV on the gaskets as well. Good time to look down the backs of the carbs and make sure they're sync'd as well...

Pickup some acorn nuts if you don't already have them, be sure to use the copper washers that are supplied with the head, and use a dab of RTV on the acorn nuts when you put them back on. Even though you bought the head used, Dave Noss is a helluva guy and I'm sure he would be more than willing to help with any other questions you may have. He's a site sponsor as well. http://www.nossmachine.com/

Feeling is mutual.... I have his number too. I was merely pointing the fact that he prefers emails to the rest of the folks that may be following this post to laugh at you. And since there is over 900 views on this post...there's plenty of them. http://www.patriotracing.net/

When did I say I know Cameron and Dan so well? I said they both do fine work and Dan got me sorted on a dome issue on my 10 mil. I didn't say I send them Christmas cards or meet them at the local watering hole for a cold one?? You are the one bragging up Cascade's bikes....I'm just pointing out what they run, and that's on their website in pictures from their bikes. Since YOU are such good buddies with Dan, you should know he doesn't take phone calls...he prefers emails. That's only been on his site for...oh...quite some time. I guess you two are tight. I don't need Lewie to call me to confirm you don't know what you're talking about....it's already very clear from what you've wrote here. Go to HQ at his shop and have him explain to you why choking a cub is such a great idea....and why a properly setup stock cylinder setup is not good enough for your "elite riding skills".... I never said I knew more about sand riding than any of those guys....it's just very apparent I'm more of a realist and know more about setup than YOU.... I don't need to hear about what a builder has done... I'm not a builder, nor are you. I'm reading your so called expert setup tips and advice.... impressive... And in case you haven't noticed...no one else here, with the exception of PW NW, is agreeing with you. I guess they're all full of shit too.... Get yourself some new clutch components while you're over at Lewie's...so at least the trip will be somewhat productive for you. The fact you feel the need to keep throwing builders name's out there...just reiterates the fact you don't know how to get it done on your own....

I'm sorry to say I read the rest of this. And you proved my point further. You need to learn to setup a bike if you can't get better mid and low out of a 70 to 80 HP motor, stock cylinder. I agree on not running a lightened flywheel, slow speed riding needs more rotating mass so the revs don't fall off...but more timing and more compression give you more torque and mid range...which....ding ding ding...get you on the pipe faster. I would rather have a smoother transition to getting on the pipe than a punch in the stomach like you're talking about....and I'm sure that smoother transition wouldn't break as many clutch parts.... Maybe that's just me thinking out loud. I honestly don't think there is anything else you can post that would change my opinion of you don't know what you're talking about.... but I'm sure you'll try.

I stopped reading after this. This is my point exactly. If you can't see my point of it is easier to get a more linear spread of power out of the stockers for THIS TYPE of riding than a cub....you obviously have not ridden on a set done up by the right builder, or you don't know how to tune/setup a bike or engine. Since you mentioned Dan @ Patriot and Cam @ Redline, I'm leaning towards the latter. Both of these gentlemen do fine work... Dan specifically when I was having dome/Oring issues on my 10 mil. My WHOLE point is what good is all that power if you can't use it...or it is difficult to use. I rode my 4 mil cub on gas with stock carbs and T5s. With a lot of compression and timing...while I was waiting on bigger carbs and pipes. Yes, it was detuned. it still hit hard and had a WAY less linear power curve than several nicely ported stockers I've ridden. I've seen videos from Snop who rides by you guys. I understand what kind of riding you do. If you still think a PT pipe'd single carb cub is your ticket, knock yourself out. Hell...why bother. a stock stroke cub with stock carbs and stock pipes will make about 70 HP give or take with some timing and compression. Why waste all that money in carbs and pipes.

You were probably reving the piss out of it, going slow...and not allowing much air to pass through the radiator as well. It shouldn't pass any coolant through that hose unless the cap is bad or it overheats to a point to release pressure. I might be a little off here, but I believe that's a 13PSI cap. For every 1PSI of pressure, I believe it raises the boiling temp of coolant/water 8 to 10 degrees. Don't have the time to research that...but I don't think I'm far off...

Just a little morning sarcasm before my morning coffee. Yes...I know they have their limitations. And since they've been around for 20-30 years (including the RZ/RD heritage) they've had a lot more time to extract the most out of them. I guess my final point is this. If you ride in a place or local where your bike is constantly churning upper RPMs, you can not only use but harness that power and get it to the ground....then yes, these aftermarket cylinders are the key. I'd have a hard time telling someone to build a cub motor, cheetah motor, twister motor, etc., when they poke around tight trails, around the farm...or just general duning and telling them...well, you can get that motor to run real real well and make a lot of HP, or...you could suffocate it with smaller pipes, less timing, less compression, smaller carbs....to suit your needs. This is not the drag racer in me speaking... This is a practical, best bang for your buck person speaking. Cubs are not for everyone. Just because something can be done, doesn't mean it's a good idea or the best way. I rode tight trails, open trails, fire roads, mud bogs, etc., for a LONG time before I got hooked on crack...or, drag racing as we call it. My whole point all along has been about neutering a motor that is meant to breathe.... While I'm certainly not going to speak for Calvin....if you ask him when he designed the cylinder (ANY of his cylinders) if he had a two into one carb setup or trail pipes in mind...I think his answer would be no.

WAY back in the day....we had a Jet Ski do the same thing. Luckily, out of water on a stand. Kill switch didn't work, we ended up pulling the gas feed line/cap off...and letting it run out of fuel. (It sucked the fuel down like water from a straw) Needless to say, after we leak down tested it and found a bad intake gasket, no one was jumping at the opportunity to be the first to ride it on the lake. Alky bikes are good for doing that...running away is what we call it. Normally..what we do is click up as many gears as we can, FLOOR the throttle...STAND on the brake and dump the clutch to kill it. First time it happens to you...you damn near shit yourself.... Leak down test it. What happens is due to the air leak, it gets SO hot in the cylinder that it no longer needs spark to ignite the fuel/air. It ignites off the heat and compression (yes...just like a diesel) Funny thing is...a top fuel dragster makes half the pass down the track like this, every time. They burn off the spark plugs and literally diesel half way down the track...

Unless you're going to run pavement or other organized racing where a catch can of some type is in the rules, ditch it and run the tube down the frame in front.

I'm very fortunate to have dealt with many people over the past few years for a wide range of things. Ted is definately one of the good guys and up there on top of that list. :beer: :beer:

NOTE TO ALL SITE SUPPORTERS AND ENGINE BUILDERS: Please stop wasting time porting and drawing more power out of stock cylinders. When a customer calls you up, sell them a cub or a twister cylinder right off the bat..then build a package around that. It is the better way to go...I have seen the err in my ways...

Didn't realize Cascade was the king of all, be all racing... They also have a lot of single carb setups. Please tell me anyone involved in any kind of racing on these motors uses those in any real competition.... They have spotless, beautiful, chrome, polished, powder coated immaculate show bikes.

Glad I'm not the only one that thought the same. Since you seem to know it all Wiz...why don't you break it down for us. Please tell me why he should run this cub with PT mid pipes...please, I'm dying to know. Tell me what the optimal compression should be...and why you're at it, the proper compression ratio. Tell me what domes, squish, squish band, MSV, exhaust, intake, transfer and blow down timings he should have. Tell me which base gasket he should run. The fact that I have to explain to you that a dune ported set of stockers with his carb/pipe setup will have a broader range of power (READ...MORE USABLE RANGE) than a cub proves to me the fact that you don't have a clue. The fact you think it's in his best interest, or anyone's for that matter....to detune a cub by placing small carbs and more restrictive pipes reinforces that. Lastly, tell me how many cub cylinders you personally have setup, have run, what kind of numbers... Even though anyone that has some already knows the answer. None.

If you are going to quote me...at least read what I wrote...take the time to understand and comprehend. for the kind of power you're looking for based on those mods In other words, based on the current mods he has (pipes, carbs, etc.) the stockers will run just fine with a dune port. And for that type of riding, they will do just fine. I did NOT say that dune ported stockers will make more than a cub. READ....

Please show me where I said you can get the same horsepower numbers out of a stock cylinder dune port as you can a 421 cub. Based on this statement right here: " The cub set-up was not designed specificly for drag racing it does not have the specs to be competitive with limited bore sizes. Although it works well it is out dated and out matched in the serious drag world. They were built to accept stock parts that in no way will work as well as the aftermarket side of the spectrum. These cylinders were designed for the duner that wanted more power at a cheaper cost than spending tons of money on stock cylinders to get mixed results." You clearly don't have a clue on what you're talking about. In their respective size classes...the cubs do AWESOME. You clearly don't have a clue about what is winning at national level drag racing. Of course a 4 mil DM spanks 4, 7, 10 and 12 mil motors. You do realize that the DM is a bigger motor and in a different class...right? Do some reading...go to a real race...please.

Shorter than stock on a cub cylinder. Is your life insurance up to date? Got Delta? Afflack?

35s and CPIs would be a good mate for that motor. Hard to handle in the trails? Just keep a stock swingarm on it...it'll be real hard to handle with the front end in the air the whole time. Believe, a burst of 80HP right now heading towards a tree is not what you want....

I don't want you to think that the bike won't run as it is now...it will. But for the kind of power you're looking for based on those mods, a nice dune port on stockers will do just as well, and MUCH cheaper. Throw in that 4 mil crank in a stocker cylinder, they run very healthy. In order to get the most out of your cylinders, as said...bigger carbs, freer flowing exhaust (CPI, Shearer) but once you do that...you will have a harder hitting, narrower spread of useable power. And I promise you just can't throw some knobby tires on it and expect it to hook up, shift properly under full throttle, etc.

Check the routing on your cable to the carbs...it could be pinched, etc. I don't think the single carb setup is worth it....unless you ride tight trails. Snop, I tried an older 400EX throttle (I had to grind the HONDA off the top and polish the cover....) and I didn't notice any difference. Not a great idea to cut loops off the carbs. Lightly sand the outer edge of the spring evenly, top to bottom. When you cut loops off the spring, the initial pull is easier, but the 1/2 to WOT is the same...it feels tougher though because the initial pull was so much easier. Clean up the spring with a nice fine scothbrite pad so you don't have any sharp/rough edges.

Fouledout and I are of the same opinion that cubs and Cheetahs are not just bolt on performance increases like Wiz typed. Because of their design, port layout, power characteristics, etc....they are strict dune/drag race cylinders. They make a lot of power in a small RPM range. When you're spending most of your time 3/4 throttle to wide open....these are great cylinders. Wiz' point is they can be made to be more....detuned, neutered, etc. My counter point is you can make a top fuel dragster into a grocery getter, but there are better ways....

I almost posted that about the super cub Shayne, but I didn't want that be to confused for a trail/mx motor...