luv2ride Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 Alright guys need some help. This old man (48) has been a rider many a year and never lost site of 2-stroke power and eventually went back (couldn't stand my 4-stroke anymore, although it was nice not having to carry oil) So here's what I picked up. 421cc Trinity Racing Power Valved Cheetah (not a cub) Full Race Tunnel Ported 5mm Long Rod Hot Rod Crank 250R V-Force 3 Reeds 35mm Keihin Carbs Trinity Racing Lightening Fast Ignition (fully indexable +/- 5 degrees) Trans Gearing is Stock ( except the star indexer, which I modified for smooth gear to gear shifting & made it easier to find neutral) Top End was rebuilt last year. Drive Line Clutch last winter w/ Direct Connect Lock-up Clutch CPI Inframe Pipes (small bore setup) RPM Dominator +/- 2" Rear Axle & hubs Lonestar +4" Swingarm This was from the person I purchased it from. It only runs high octane fuel (110 or above if I recall) I've cleaned the carbs (done this a million times) the jets were clogged a bit but not to bad, nothing that would prevent it from running. I thought for sure that was it. For the life of me I can't get this sucker to kick start. No matter what I do, choke on both carbs, choke on 1 carb, no choke etc... Plugs are wet so I know its not fuel, I'm starting to lean towards ignition. I'm not that familiar with the Trinity stuff, need to do some reading, although when I tested for spark it was there. My old Kawi triples were a bitch to start when compression was low, haven't checked that yet & to be honest I'm not sure where it should be. When the thing is running it scares the living daylight outta me. A problem when I want to run out for a quick jaunt and no one is there to help me. Even after its warm its still hard to kick start. I've been successful once I think. Just never ride it alone in case it decides to die and I can't get it started again. I just hop on my 86 250r to play. If anyone has an idea I would be very grateful! Pat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n2otoofast4u Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 Compression test is a good place to start. What size jets are in the carbs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmon_slayer06 Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 huh. Obvious its getting spark, getting fuel... maybe the carbs need to be adjusted a bit. Could be too big of a slow jet maybe pilot jet? Adjust needle height? Could be dumping way too much fuel. Interested to know what the compression is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luv2ride Posted October 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 huh. Obvious its getting spark, getting fuel... maybe the carbs need to be adjusted a bit. Could be too big of a slow jet maybe pilot jet? Adjust needle height? Could be dumping way too much fuel. Interested to know what the compression is. Fuel appears to be fine. Little worried about spark, for some reason it seems more white instead of blue. Picked up a new set of plugs this evening, i'll install them tomorrow along with a compression test. Does anyone know what it should be +100 per cylinder? Then to look at jets. I should've noted them when I took them out and cleaned em. Age i tell ya! It doesn't seem fuel related, seems to be enough fuel but the plugs weren't soaked after I kicked it at least 10 times. One would think more fuel would be on the plugs at that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jereme6655 Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 Stock compression is around 125psi in each jug......with some variance due to elevation depending where you are. That being said.....don't always count that 125 is where your bike is actually at due to the upgrades.........it all comes down to what cc domes are in the head and what/whether there has been port work done to your cylinders. Stock bikes push 125 psi and at about 110 they get harder to start. At about 100 they are push start bikes. There is a down side to your bike that others will start mentioning.....and I hope it has been worked over already for you. That part is TRINITY. While they may do some builds on 4 stroke quads decent.........they have failed time and time again in the Banshee world. To the point where there name is on par with the word cancer to a banshee owner. There are a few "trinity" cylinders out there that have been sent out to a few of our site sponsors and while they shook their heads the entire time at trinitys ignorance.....they were able to solve the issues and make some decently hard runners. If I remember correctly........its pretty much trinitys shitty ability to do math and design as it was their dome designs that were causing issues. And when I mean issues.....I mean issues that usually cost you your motor. Where are you at? Keep us posted and let us know what you find with your compression test. AND THANKS FOR STAYING 2 STROKE! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 Stock compression is around 125psi in each jug......with some variance due to elevation depending where you are. That being said.....don't always count that 125 is where your bike is actually at due to the upgrades.........it all comes down to what cc domes are in the head and what/whether there has been port work done to your cylinders. Stock bikes push 125 psi and at about 110 they get harder to start. At about 100 they are push start bikes. I don't like this statement. Lol stock motors here on fresh bore barely push 100! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luv2ride Posted October 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 I had a strange feeling it may be compression related. I'm hoping that's not the case. Have a few errands to run this morning and will check when I return. If I recall correctly, again I'm old, 100 and above was thought to be ok? 125 would be wonderful however. This thing sat for many years. The guy I bought it from, actually traded my 4-poke was very anal about everything. Trusted him, he's been very helpful in regards to any questions I've had. I did ask him about the kick start problem - well he never answered that one, had to go back and look. It's been sitting this summer as I just haven't had the time to look at it. Now is the time. Got a week off, might as well get er done. I never really heard bad things about Trinity. Interesting information. I'll keep ya posted. Cheers 1987 Banshee 421 cheeter 1986 Honda 250R 2006 CVO Harley Davidson Fatboy 2009 Suzuki GSXR 1100 1974 Kawaski H2 500 Triple Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brap_Life Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 Luv2ride Pop your ignition cover off, and run a fine grade sand paper over the reluctors in the flywheel, and do a reading on the pick up coil sitting just outside the flywheel. Get a buddy to kick it while you measure it in ac voltage, should be at hitting 1.5-3vac on average with each kick. Make sure your pick up coil isn't loose. If that all seems fine follow your wires, chase voltage to find out where the excess resistance is. Have a service manual for the bike? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luv2ride Posted October 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 Brap... Thanks I'll try that. Yes I do have a service manual. Checked compression. 120 each cylinder after 10 kicks per side. That's certainly not bad and shouldn't be causing the problem. I'll chase down the electrical issue and perhaps take the carbs out one more time just to make sure I didn't miss something when I cleaned them the 1st time. Installing new plugs as well. Might be worth checking the reeds? If it had an air leak it would be running lean when it does run. Spark plugs indicate that's not the issue. Thanks again for all the help! I'm in Wisconsin. 1987 Banshee 421 cheeter 1986 Honda 250R 2006 CVO Harley Davidson Fatboy 2009 Suzuki GSXR 1100 1974 Kawaski H2 500 Triple Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luv2ride Posted October 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 Well what a pleasant surprise. New BR7ES plugs and she fired right up the 2nd kick. I must be challenged or something. Never had plugs do that before. Ah... 2-stroke madness struck again. I'll take it though. Need to adjust idle and should probably sync the carbs. Anyone have a suggestion for that? Don't have a carb sync tool and the crossover pipe doesn't exist. Sure I need a sync gauge but if there is anything else I can do that would rock. Also are there any different plugs I should be using? Something a bit more durable or better performance related? Now for fuel, if I recall I'm mixing 50:1 using golden spectro. Is that enough? Or should I add more oil per gallon? I'm sure this has been answered and I'll have a look bit thought I would ask considering the motor that's in this thing. Adrenaline - it's addicting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickedcarbine Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 Who set up that cheetah? Where are the domes from? That 7 range plug is way hot and asking for trouble. I think I would mix any non synthetic 32/40:1 and any synthetics I feel 50:1 to be ok. You have all the right stuff to make a killer running bike I think you just need to do a lot of digging on here about the cheetahs and what issues come with them. All to often people feel that because it starts and goes through the gears at full throttle that everything is ok. All the while the poor cheetah is detonating it self to death and over heating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luv2ride Posted October 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 (edited) There were BPR7ES in it. Got rid of the resistor part although I did buy an extra set. Doug Shaw was then person who set this up out of Indiana. As noted I'm an old 2 stroke guy. I know the things to listen for and check. Just need to get out and ride it a bit and check plugs etc. What plug should I be running? 8's? I have to check the domes. Not sure what they are it where there from. I can certainly ask Doug. He's a great guy. Now if only I didn't live smack dab in the middle of the city. Edited October 3, 2013 by luv2ride Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coupelx Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 The resistor isnt hurting a thing not sure why people are so against running them. Put a br8es in it before you burn it down. Any who the best thing you can do for a cheetah is let someone redo everything trinity touched. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luv2ride Posted October 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 Haha! I think I have a set of 8's if anything I'll redo it myself. Run er till she blows up then fix it. Right now it's working and running well I might add. Need to get out and thrash it a bit now that it starts right up! Makes things much easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coupelx Posted October 4, 2013 Report Share Posted October 4, 2013 Running stuff till it blows gets expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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