4mm kit

[mikechief]

ive been looking at stroker kits. and read on one that it only accepts standard pistons . my plan was to get a kit that has spacer plates. then upgrade to pistonsz n porting and chuck the spacers when i get some more money . will only certain cranks work without plates ? my left jug is fillin up with tranny oil so i want to start with the crank as long as im in there . shees a 96 thats been beat so i think a new crank would be wise . kinda scary buyn a used crank and stockers are almost as much as strokers help what do i do

[firebanshee]

ive been looking at stroker kits. and read on one that it only accepts standard pistons . my plan was to get a kit that has spacer plates. then upgrade to pistonsz n porting and chuck the spacers when i get some more money . will only certain cranks work without plates ? my left jug is fillin up with tranny oil so i want to start with the crank as long as im in there . shees a 96 thats been beat so i think a new crank would be wise . kinda scary buyn a used crank and stockers are almost as much as strokers help what do i do

If the stoker kit only accepts standard pistons then it is probably a short rod stoker(110mm)connecting rod, which is standard lenght for a banshee. I would get the long rod(115mm)this crank takes a 795 series piston. The longer rod puts a better working angle on the crank and less side load on the piston skirts and are ALOT more reliable. I have ran short rod cranks before they rev up a little quicker but i broke alot of piston skirts.

[AKheathen]

i keep hearing allot lately about "kits" what exactly does that mean? like bolt-and-go, or just pistons, crank and gaskets, but still need the machine work? i would only ever support the later

[mikechief]

Yeah all bolt on no machine work I know its not ideal but neitheris my pay check should I fix my leak through it back together save my money to do it all in one shot hope my crank last for a bit? Or can I get my bottom end set up now and cobble the top for a bit?

i keep hearing allot lately about "kits" what exactly does that mean? like bolt-and-go, or just pistons, crank and gaskets, but still need the machine work? i would only ever support the later

[jbooker82]

i keep hearing allot lately about "kits" what exactly does that mean? like bolt-and-go, or just pistons, crank and gaskets, but still need the machine work? i would only ever support the later

 

The work "Kit" is used to sell parts to people that dont know any better. There is no kit out there. It is some one selling all parts need to build a 4 mill. You dont get 1 fancy box. It is just peiecd together. The sad part is that people buy the "kits off ebay" from not so great seller (dunetire, In2Glamis, also known as In Land ATV). They have been known to have a picture of a Hot Rods crank in there ebay auction and then send you a no name brand crank.

 

These kits are usually sold on ebay for the same price you can get everything from Jeff at FAST. If you already have a cool head then you can run no spacer plate for the same price.

 

So i guess the motto of the story is buy from some one that is reputable.

[mikechief]

If love to get my stuff from fast but don't I NEED 250 dollars woth of porting without the spacers? I'd like to get sum jugs with Lil more life left in them before I do that

The work "Kit" is used to sell parts to people that dont know any better. There is no kit out there. It is some one selling all parts need to build a 4 mill. You dont get 1 fancy box. It is just peiecd together. The sad part is that people buy the "kits off ebay" from not so great seller (dunetire, In2Glamis, also known as In Land ATV). They have been known to have a picture of a Hot Rods crank in there ebay auction and then send you a no name brand crank.

 

These kits are usually sold on ebay for the same price you can get everything from Jeff at FAST. If you already have a cool head then you can run no spacer plate for the same price.

 

So i guess the motto of the story is buy from some one that is reputable.

[AKheathen]

i, personally, would find a crank, then pick some nice pistons of your choice, unless there is a kit that comes with pistons you like. also, if you find different spacer options, then go with the head spacer, rather than the base plate, and you will get a better midrange to play with. so, i'm guessin you are in the 800 range and needing the bare minimum? well, that will be about enough to get it goin with 375+ for the crank, and less than 200 for pistons, then you will need the cylinders bored and/or honed for the pistons which is about 100 and i highly suggest not trying to go cheaper from going to a "local shop" that doesn't do the chamfer or match to the pistons. and then the gaskets/spacer. abricadabra, you have put together the "kit" more reliably, and can do the rest as the money comes. first thing, though, is have your cylinders spec'ed to see where you need to go with the pistons.

[AKheathen]

If love to get my stuff from fast but don't I NEED 250 dollars woth of porting without the spacers? I'd like to get sum jugs with Lil more life left in them before I do that

no, you don't NEED the porting for it to run without spacer plates, but you will only get a little bit of gain without the porting, as the transfer timing will be off the only difference with running the spacer plate under the cylinders and clearancing the head/running stroker domes, or head spacer, is the rpm range of the power. runing the head clearanced will benifit more.

[firebanshee]

If you put the 4mil crank in and put the cylinders on with factory base plate gaskets, then put the pistons at the bottom of the stroke and mark the cylinders at the transfer ports(which should be 2mm lower) then take the cylinders back off and lower the windows of the transfer ports down to the mark(2mm). Then when the cylinders are back on with the base gasket the top of the piston should be even with the bottom of the transfer ports when the piston is at the bottom of the stroke.Even if you dont lower your ports it will still run decent(ALOT BETTER THAN WITH A SPACER) Then put cut domes on and that will give you pretty good power until you can afford to get it ported.Putting a 4mil crank in is like raising your ports up 2mils if you don't use a base gasket, so your motor will also make more power by adding more displacement and by changing your port timing. If you use a base gasket under the cylinder then it would be like raising your ports 4mils which is too much and your motor will not run right. Using a head spacer won't throw off timing they can leak and mess with your comp and squish band.

[firebanshee]

If you put the 4mil crank in and put the cylinders on with factory base plate gaskets, then put the pistons at the bottom of the stroke and mark the cylinders at the transfer ports(which should be 2mm lower) then take the cylinders back off and lower the windows of the transfer ports down to the mark(2mm). Then when the cylinders are back on with the base gasket the top of the piston should be even with the bottom of the transfer ports when the piston is at the bottom of the stroke.Even if you dont lower your ports it will still run decent(ALOT BETTER THAN WITH A SPACER) Then put cut domes on and that will give you pretty good power until you can afford to get it ported.Putting a 4mil crank in is like raising your ports up 2mils if you don't use a base plate, so your motor will also make more power by adding more displacement and by changing your port timing. If you use a base plate under the cylinder then it would be like raising your ports 4mils which is too much and your motor will not run right. Using a head spacer won't throw off timing they can leak and mess with your comp and squish band.

EDIT POST

[mikechief]

holy shit !! ton of info thanks guys ! so do i need the 795 pistons with the head clearance route ? firebanshee im gunna have to read that 10 or 12 more times before i ask anymore questions

[AKheathen]

lol, that's a bit much there, and not all of which i really agree with. first off, it's allot more complicated than a 4mill is like raising the ports 2mm, as +2mm on a stock stroke is different thanthe same distance on a 4mill rotation in the same degree location. to give you an idea, without the base spacer, the stock exhaust port will be near 180 degrees, which is not far off from stock durration. raising 2mm, however, will differ almost 10 degrees from stock stroke to 4mill cranks, if i remember correctly. the bottom of the ports does make a difference, but not as huge as you may think, and o would not recomemnd cutting at all, without a good amount of experience, skill and precision in cutting such material, and stick to just the exhaust, if you can make the port, and chamfer smooth and even. the biggest power robber, is the new port degree cycle has placed the transfers and exhaust too close together, aside from the ports themselfs having stock flow design......now, the transfer windows- i would most definately tell anyone to leave them untouched by anyone but an experienced 2-stroke builder, with the proper tools. i do understand the leakage issue with the head spacers but messing with the squish band and compression? how so? all you need is to set the squish clearance with the right thickness gaskets and that's it. it's the extra stroke that changes compression, but the chambers themselfs aren't effected, as you are basically just adding to the cylinders..... also, there are a few different options for long rod pistons, but weisco 795 series is one of the most popular, and you can have a head rechambered, or buy a "coolhead" and get the domes...i was just thinking about initial cost to get it goin without cheapin out elsewhere

[bbcmudtruck]

If you don't have the cash to get everything you need, I would hold off till you do. Do a basic rebuild and start saving to build a 4mil later down the road. If you cylinders are nearing the end of their life, buy some 64mm cylinders and start with those. Piecing together a 4mil isn't worth the hassle in my opinion. To truly get the benifit of running a 4mil motor, you need EVERYTHING to be correct. That list of parts can run you well into 2grand depending on what you have to start with. Don't half ass it, talk to a builder and do it right the first time. You will need the following:

 

4mil hotrods crank with 115mm rods.

Wiescos

port job

Cool head with domes cut for the extra stroke

Carbs and filters

Timing plate

Intakes

Pancake

Billet basket

FAST clutch

Port matched cases

Gaskets and seals

 

That is a complete 4mil build. Depending of what kind of power delivery your wanting you may also need pipes. You will want to do the shifting mods as well.

 

 

[alf44]

The work "Kit" is used to sell parts to people that dont know any better. There is no kit out there. It is some one selling all parts need to build a 4 mill. You dont get 1 fancy box. It is just peiecd together. The sad part is that people buy the "kits off ebay" from not so great seller (dunetire, In2Glamis, also known as In Land ATV). They have been known to have a picture of a Hot Rods crank in there ebay auction and then send you a no name brand crank.

 

These kits are usually sold on ebay for the same price you can get everything from Jeff at FAST. If you already have a cool head then you can run no spacer plate for the same price.

 

So i guess the motto of the story is buy from some one that is reputable.

Just an fyi. There is actually "KITS" available now. Vitos for example has several. They come complete with 68mm jugs, ported or not, the crank, pistons, head, domes, gaskets and all. everything you need. Of course there may be some fine tuning involved but for the most part they are bolt on and go. they range in price from $500- 1100.

I suppose you could also call it a "kit" when you piece a setup together from one place like I did. Figure of speech I guess???

[mikechief]

thanks for the help ! im gunna try the head spacer for now . if ido try carvin on my transfer ports should i do it before i get it bored ?