mailman

Here is the link to some pictures of the bike at Sand Mountain with Eric, Riggs, and Cameron. http://www.whiteknuckleracing.com/index1.html

PM me Camatv. Lets talk. I might be interested in a duner as a part trade if anyone was thinking about it. I would also consider parting this out if I can sell the motor for $5K complete with carbs, pipes, ignition, etc. I have ridden and owned 100+ HP banshees but none of them compare to this beast. It pulls hard! I tore something in my right arm while trying to hold on through the whoops.

Thanks Cam.

Thanks John! I remember catching "air" on that run. Blood pressure was a little high after that run. LOL The bike keeps accelerating and runs out of hill. If I had the stones to launch it hard and hold it Wide Open, then I am pretty sure I could see 90 mph.

Thanks guys!

I am in Glendale, Arizona. I will be out at Glamis with the bike from the 27th through the 30th.

Triple cylinder Trex top end with banshee cases modded to fit the top end. 10 mil stroked and 74.5 bore brings this beast to 837 cc's. It was built around 2002 by Eric at White Knuckle racing. WKR did the top end, port work, carbs, etc. Louie at Twister built the crank and cases. Sandragon did the chasis. This bike was built with all the best components. My best speed up Olds at Glamis was 85 mph but could be faster if I could smooth out the hill or hang on through the whoops. I have attached some videos of the bike running at Glamis. This bike did 94mph up Sand Mountain with the previous owner (Mike Riggs) on it. This thing is loaded. Here is a short list of some of the components: Sandragon chassis including chrome a arms, chrome steering stem, and +12 chrome swinger. JJ+A drag axle 14 paddle Kevlar reinforced 25" paddle tires Smoothies up front with JJ+A 3 spokes with front brakes. The bike has front brakes for good reason. 38mm Mikuni alky carbs by WKR Shearer custom pipes modded to work with this motor Custom 17 tooth case saver 530 chain 2-5 overide trans cut by Metal Tech Billet basket with straight cuts Lockout with modded cover Looking for only $8000. I won't ever state how much is in this build. Since I bought it two years ago, I went through it and put in a new crank by Twister, fresh top end with 721 series pistons in it so replacements are inexpensive and easy to find. I also put in the case saver and 530 chain, and had Metal Tech cut a fresh trans for me. The bike is turn key right now. At age 45, it is a tall order to hang on through the whoops for me. http://imageshack.us/g/217/tripleundermotor.jpg/

I have another fork to install/compare it to. It looks fine. My question is whether a spring would do any harm if installed between the forks to help insure the fork slides all the way over in 4th gear. The drum is cut so the fork can move back and forth. It is hard to describe w/out pics.

I have two complete trans with drums and both drums are cut the same way. I think the gear is supposed to spin out of the way from the force of rotation when you shift. It worked fine for a while. It may have just been rider error. It just seems like the spring would be good insurance. I will look at the fork closer but initial inspection seems like the fork is fine.

I have a non dunable 2-5 over ride trans. I recently broke a few teeth on a gear. I currently have another trans and I am looking at it on the bench and going through the gears. All is good except for 4th. When the trans shifts to 4th on the bench, one of the shift forks has a lot of room to move back and forth. In the right spot, the trans will bind up again which I am trying to avoid. I am wondering if I install a spring between the two forks (like on the duanbles) to force the fork all the way over when the trans is in 4th that it will fix this potential problem. Any thoughts or experience on this is appreciated. Mailman

Trans showed up today. Thanks for the quick ship. Everything looks good.

Money sent on 2-5 over ride trans.

Get a new builder. There is nothing wrong with avgas. The density is very close to race gas. I have used it for over 20 years with no issues. The shelf life is outstanding too.

I will be out there with the triple. I will have my 4poke 501cc Honda too.

Please keep in mind that the Shearers were 2 different sets. The first was a set hanging on the wall at D+M and they had stingers (not silencers). The set I put on Hall's dyno was a set of silenced shearers in an OOF. I went back to D+M to test the Shearer silenced oof pipes vs. the oof pipes with stingers. These were done back to back on 5/31/11 on the 554cc DM on gas. The stronger curve is the stinger set.

Yes, methanol is a totally different animal. I was referring to gas. I think that explains the difference. Gas doesn't have the cooling ability like methanol does. Those are outstanding times on the cub. Hats off to that man. I don't think the average rider understands how much time and money it takes to get to that point. I wish more guys would tinker with the pipes.

I understand Dave and see your point which I share with you and that is why I mentioned the time lapse. Unfortunately, this is the data that I have so you have to be careful how you interpret it.

I think you are mistaken. Keep in mind that this is all based on gas and not methanol. The longer you run a motor on the dyno, the hotter it will get which will push the curve to the right and read max rpm higher. Now tuning for max power on an atv dyno vs a car dyno is different and this may be where the disagreement lies. If you tune to max power on an atv dyno, then go to the hill, most likely you will burn up your motor from being too lean. Most atv dyno owners will richen up the main at least 2 to 3 sizes before they send a customer out the door because they know this. On a car dyno, the load is greater so it is possible to jet for max power on the dyno then go run the hill with the same jetting or maybe 1 size richer due to altitude and temps. Phx is about 1100 ft and Glamis is 0-500 ft. Here is a back to back comparison of the Snipers on the car dyno. You can see the curve shift right due to the increased heat. This is the same setup I ran the hill with. You can see this same thing happening on the atv dyno in my first graph that I posted.

The next graph will show the Snipers on the car dyno vs. a set of OOF silenced Shearer big bore pipes with the head pipe cut down 1/2 inch to an inch. I forget the exact amount. The carbs used for all these dyno runs were 38 pwk's on gas. The Shearers are red and the Snipers are blue. You can see the Shearer pipes are stronger through the entire curve until 9500 rpm. From 9500 rpm on up, the Snipers are stronger. It is important to note that this comparison was not done back to back on the same day. The Sniper run posted here is "the best run" from 3/16/11 and the Shearer best run was on 5/27/11.

I think there are two really good questions here. The first is asking which dyno will show more power and why. The second question is: "Why the shift in rpm at peak power on the car dyno even though the curves start at the same rpm on both dynoes. I will try to answer the second question first since it is a little easier. I will answer the first question in a separate post. Short version: heavy rollers = longer run times = higher pipe temp = shorter pipe characteristics = higher peak rpm Long version: The rollers are much heavier on the car dyno so it naturally takes longer to accelerate them vs. the lighter atv dyno. Think of yourself on a bicycle with gears. Starting from a dead stop in low gear, pedal as fast as you can. You will accelerate the bike to max speed in that gear in a few seconds then won't go any faster due to your physical limitations. Now repeat the same experiment except put the bicycle in the highest gear. It will naturally take you longer to reach a max. speed. The load on your body is greater in the higher gear and therefore takes longer to overcome it. A better example is if you put the bike in any gear and record how long it takes you to reach max speed. Then repeat the exercise except put on packs that double or triple your weight then repeat the exercise. It will take longer in the same gear to reach max speed due to all the weight you have to accelerate. OK, so you accept the fact that the car dyno pulls will take longer since the rollers are heavier. Why does the peak rpm shift then? The longer the run time on the dyno, the more heat gets put into the exhaust. As the exhaust gets hotter, the pipe starts to act shorter. A shorter pipe will push peak rpm higher. For the technical people, the waves in the pipe move faster when the pipe gets hotter. This speeds up the flow of the return pulse which means peak efficiency or peak torque is now at a higher rpm. If you are jetted correctly, and make 3 back to back passes on a dyno, then you will usually see the curve shift to the right due to the heat and pipe starting to act shorter. Pipe performance changes with heat.

Here you go Gary. This is the exact same setup but on a Car dyno vs an ATV dyno. The car dyno is at Hall's and the ATV dyno is at D+M. Both dynoes are inertia only dynos. Passion 554 cc 4 mil DM motor with OOF silenced Snipers on gas. Car dyno vs ATV dyno. Same jetting, gearing, etc. Just different dyno load. I will show this with RPM on the first graph and with time in seconds on the second graph to show that the car dyno has much longer runs than the atv dyno. You will notice that the time graph shows the atv dyno run to last about 2-3 seconds for the entire dyno pull and the car dyno run time is about 7-8 seconds long for the dyno pull.

This next graph is what Gary is asking for I think. It is my old 492 Cheetah vs the 554 DM on Hall's Car dyno. The 554 is the stronger curve. The Cheetah was a 4 mil and 73.5 bore. I will let you guys chew on this a while. More to come.

This next graph shows the same motor with the same OOF Sniper silenced pipes on a car dyno at Hall's Precision Motors and this was the best run that we could get which shows 113 HP. The debate on ATV dyno vs car dyno is a topic in itself. Here is the best run with the Snipers on a 554 cc 4 mil DM on gas.

There is a ton on information on my hands for this topic so it may take me a while to get all the graphs up and explain them. I worked with 2 different dynoes and 3 different sets of pipes. The bike was run on race gas. The motor in question is a 4 mil DM that Jim built for me. He got the cylinder raw and the cases and did everything he wanted to them. He designed the domes for this motor too. Gary was given this information and designed a custom set of OOF silenced Snipers for this motor. He actually first made me a set of inframes but they wouldn't fit on my Lonestar frame so I had to go the OOF drag pipe route. The Snipers were OOF drag pipes with silencers made for the 554 CC 4 mil DM. I dynoed these at D+M Racing in Glendale on Doug's ATV roller only dyno. The gearing on the bike was 15/41 or 16/41 if I remember correctly which produced speeds of 80 to 85 mph. The first 3 runs were done with the Snipers after I had it jetted correctly for the Snipers. The last 3 runs were some used Shearer OOF non-silenced drag pipes that were hanging on Doug's wall. The Shearers ended up making about 10 hp more than the Snipers with this motor and on this dyno. The Snipers made about 100 HP and the Shearers about 110 HP. There is a ton more info. to this so please wait until I finish posting all the facts up. This may take a few days. You will end up with more questions than answers when I am done. Enjoy.

I am looking to dyno test on a 350 gas banshee making 70 hp now with T5's. I want to try some Shearer sb inframes and some Sniper inframes too. PM me if you can help.