WINDYCITYJOHN400

Ok, once again the persistent members of "Team Hater" have taken a simple product review and turned it into not only a pissing match, but an opportunity to bash a persons reputation and credibility. Why are people willing to take my word over Gary's?.........Well I'm not on here promising +10 more HP over any other brand. I don't think anyone has taken my word on anything. I've just offered up info. But I get to endure Tyler's Wrath just because a few people are willing to listen to what I have to say. Sorry folks, I guess you'll just have to get your information about the V-4's from Tyler. (No one else can know anything unless he knew it first. Especially me!) Of course he's already said that he doesn't even have a motor that these will work on, so it might be a while till he has any concrete tests on them to share with you. (So why is he posting on this topic?) Whatever........ So I did some dyno testing of some reeds. Apparently I'm full of shit, so maybe I've never even seen these reeds. Plus I'm too stupid to know anything, so you can't believe a thing I say. Hell, I might have been reading the numbers off my microwave. In one of my very first posts about the 4's I mentioned that you all better get good at tuning pilots, cause the 4's need more fuel on the bottom end. A couple of people mentioned a bog on the bottom and I told them to go up a pilot size and sure enough, the bike responded perfectly. But helping fellow members solve problems is frowned on by the management. In my attempt to openly share info about something I was lucky enough to be in on the ground floor with, I have clearly violated some senior level HQ directive. Could we please make a sticky post of the hidden HQ mission statement? It's getting hard to stay in compliance. Tyler HATES Shearers. Well....he hate's MATT Shearer...so in turn he hates the Shearer pipes. Yet he runs them on his bikes. But he's not happy about it and you better not be either. Now he just LOVES Gary. So in turn he loves Sniper pipes. Even though he hasn't run them on a bike. (Take note: Sniper = Good. Shearer = Bad. This is not negotiable.) Now we're going to hate on a set of $200 dollar reeds? Just because I said something about them? Your mad that people are listening to me, but not Gary? Last time I looked Gary only comes on here to talk about his pipes. I don't see him helping anyone with anything in the forums. I'm just posting some free info about a shit load of testing. Sorry gang. No room in the reviews section for positive feedback if Tyler doesn't agree. Or if your apparently not equally excited about the products that he thinks you should be..... I guess if you want to talk to me about reeds, you better just PM me for the details..........I've got plenty. (But don't take my word on it cause Im "A Nobody")

Why would people have to defend someone in a product reviews section? Oh, that's right....because you are on here basically bashing me and my input on the topic. You of course have zero experience with this product, yet even though other members are reporting that they're getting results similar to the results that I reported finding in my dyno testing, you still feel the need to cast doubt on the results I reported. Gary made a claim and he stands to gain from his claim. I'm a member of the site and I'm just sharing test results. BIG DIFFERENCE. Funny how your working so hard at discrediting anything that I say. I don't see you bashing "special06shee" for his positive feedback. Why are you so focused on only addressing my comments? Looks like others are having the positive results that I reported

I don't see how you can make that leap. I'm not the company telling you it's the next big thing..... I'm just a site member who has experience with this product and I'm sharing that information with fellow members. I don't expect YOU to take my word on anything. Others on this site might see my comments as helpful free information.

Well, the fucking nobody called the jetting recommendations spot on. Oh, don't look now but I'm also helping people with advice and info.....I'm sorry, did you have anything helpful to say? The dyno results are something called "Work Product" and are the property of V-Force. But I have no problem "Telling you" what they said. You don't have to take my word on anything.....and I'm sure you never will. I could be 100% right about something and you would do the opposite just because you're you. I'd prefer that you just figure it out on your own. Your such a big player in this sport....how come your site sponsors haven't hooked you up with a pair and some free dyno tests? Roger Decoster joined KTM as team leader and completely revamped their MX program. So maybe you can see where his political pull in this sport has lead to the development of these new reeds. (KTM has some new killer strong 2-stroke motors out.) This would explain why the reeds came out for the KTM first. We have also been promised that we will be getting the first prototype designs for the new Yamaha 250 when they are ready for testing. Now there are a few V-Force 4 posts going on here all at the same time.......But if you read them all, you'll notice there are a few people (and they are always the same ones) who "Don't need to test them because they just know what the results are going to be." I did A LOT of dyno passes with many different reed combos as they made the path from prototype to available product. I've posted what we saw as the result of that testing. Better bottom end. - Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that if you need 1 pilot size larger, that you must be making some serious bottom end. Larger reed size and more reed tip surface area - Again, not hard to figure out that more air volume will lead to more power. Top end power - Peak numbers exceeded those of reed stuffer modded 3's and are on par with that of the classic 2's. (Note to the drag guys and die hard V-2 fans).....that means that yes the peak numbers are very close. But your going to see more power thru the entire curve. That is still more power. But haters are going to hate. (Mostly because they can't add to the conversation) So they will bash the person who is getting all the attention or the people who are interested in a topic the hater knows nothing about. I shared the findings of our testing. Now with all the interest out there we're getting other independent seat of the pants ride feedback. (Thanks "Special06shee" for your feedback) I'm betting that everyone who gets a set and bumps the pilot up one size is going to have nothing but smiles to report. I said it before....Buy with confidence boys, and enjoy.

X2 - go with the UPP intakes.

Testing showed they needed more fuel from the pilot. (Even going from 3's) So I'd start by going up one pilot size and tune from there.

3 things come to mind...... #1 - Fuel pump diaphragm might be cracked and making pressure at low idle but develop issues at higher RPM. #2 - Rings are going out on it. (Do a compression check and or make sure the motor was getting oil on that trip.) #3 - You lost your crank seal.

Well while others turn this into the next "Cheese Thread" I'll just answer your question. Anyone who's been in the drag game knows the V-2's made the most HP on the drag bikes. The V-3's had great throttle response and focused on low to mid power improvements. The V-4's are a blending of those two styles, with improved reed stuffers that actually work and a great petal tension. Now they are claiming 4-5HP increases over stock style reed systems. Will you see a 5 HP jump on the machine in your signature over your 3's?.....No. Your peak HP number might only go up 1 HP on that level of a build. But the front side of the curves have looked much stronger. (Better low and mid torque.) As the power levels of a motor go up....so do the improvements over the previous reed designs. In our testing we found that (On my 100+ HP Redline 10 mill Cub on gas) we would see a 3HP improvement on the V-3's by doing the reed stuffer mod. The V-4's made 2 more HP than the modded 3's and had a little stronger performance on the way up to peak. They basically have the top end power of the old 2's that the drag guys like, with the throttle response of the 3's, with the added benefit of even better low and mid power than you got with the 3's. Will you feel it in the seat of your pants on your Butt dyno? In the crispness of the throttle....I'd say yes. In the couple of HP....not in the seat of the pants. But it really offers the best of both worlds without the risk of screws in your motor like the old 2's had. Am I saying go sell your 3's and get 4's? No. I'd say the drag guys should give them a good testing at their favorite track. I'd say if your in need of a reed system you should just buy the 4's with confidence. If your not running any V-force reed system, you may be saving a couple of bucks....but you don't have anywhere near the reed tip surface area. If your happy with what you have and why.....stick with it. But the 4's aren't hype.

So.......how often does Matt call YOU? Does he have YOUR number? That's the difference.......

Ha Ha Ha Haters are gonna hate. The FINAL design that you will be able to buy is in MY bike as we speak. I've had the 4's in for most of the season trying different reeds and stuffer combos. We've ran those reeds in everything from bone stock machines, ported motors, 4 mills, 4-10 mill cubs. Stuff from 37HP to over 100. So since I was there and saw the results first hand, I was just curious who could have a contradicting view. Some my not think buying them is worth the money if they have 3's already.......but they aren't hype. They make more power overall. They are only $200 right now! You can sell your 3's and move into the 4's for next to nothing. But if people want to stick with what they have.....fine. Doesn't matter to me. I don't stand to make a dime from a single reed sale. I got my free sets and my 3's are sitting in a box. "Juan" has more pull that you think. You play the politics of this sport your way, and I'll play it mine.

Who told you that? Who could? I'm the only guy with them in a bike and has tested them on the dyno as well as on the ground so who's bashing stuff that they couldn't even have tried yet?

Yes, I often travel faster than the speed of light. And when I hit the brakes....I always kick the lights off the bike. (I don't like to have them weighing me down all the way to my stopping point.) But seriously, Spots are what you want. Better than floods.

At one point I had a 10 mill cub with a Metal Tech +4 frame, but I had CPI OOF BB's on it at that time. Same issues. It has to not hit the bottom frame rail and be able to mount to a foot peg. Mine had the IMS foot pegs, so I had a custom mount made to make it happen.

http://www.texavery.com/sounds/breakitup.wav

We're at the Sierra Sands. If your thinking of staying there...just tell them that your with our group. (We've got 4 rooms so far I think.) It'll be a good time hanging out after the ride. (We've got at least 5 ladies joining in the hot tub fun. This won't be a sausage fest.)

http://bansheehq.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=157594&st=0

Right! But what can you do? You can't cover all the issues without the attention deficit/learning disabled members busting your balls for posting a novel. You got guys running spacer plates on cylinders, reeds spacers on carbs, different intake heights for different stroke motors, multiple intake designs, multiple carb shapes and sizes, endless filter designs, 5-6 different head shapes, aftermarket solid pipe mounts, taller and wider cylinder designs showing up on the market all the time, builders who tell you to run BB pipes, (Cause you don't want to hear that your new bad ass motor needs Small bore pipes. After all bigger is better right?) You got guys with custom chassis, custom sub-frames, bigger and bigger clutch covers. The list of possible issues is endless. But the pipes get bolted on last, so guess who get's all the complaints? On top of all that, the In-Frames have to dodge there way around all those issues, while also passing thru the one point on the bike where most of those issues come together in one small place. It really blows my mind the chatter that fitment gets from these guys with the OOF pipes. They wait months for custom chassis to arrive, then for powder coating, then for cylinders to get ported , people talk all the time about float bowl drains hitting clutch actuator arms and they deal with that without having a grand-maul-hissy fit, They bolt top ends together, then measure and wait for custom domes......But despite the possible issues with pipe fitment, do they order a raw set and test fit them? Do they tweak them to fit their needs, then send them back for final assembly and chrome? Nope. They just order those pipes in chrome and hope for the best. Sounds like the choice of intakes solves the issues for at least a few people. Could have spent less and been able to run most pipes without issue. Fitment isn't an issue......cause they are on every motor combo you can picture. Performance is where it's at! If you buy a set of pipes because of how they sound?...........Your doing it wrong. You know why the guys with Shearers on their bikes aren't worried about fitment? Because when you have a big swingin' dick between your legs.........the last thing your worried about is how your going to fit it in your pants! Note: No site members or pipe builders were harmed in the creation of this post.

Gee, welcome back to the conversation. Let me bring you up to speed...... Mailman is one of my best friends and I had all that dyno info over a year before he posted it for you to see. What your also failing to mention is that the motor ran so poorly, that out of frustration, he took it to D+M to test on an ATV dyno and Doug couldn't believe how bad it ran either. So he took a set of Shearer OOF pipes he had hanging on the wall and slapped them on the bike and saw a big jump in power. (Mailman posted those curves too. But you conveniently ignore those and choose not to re-post them.) I was completely hopeful that the new Snipers were going to be something awesome.....till I saw Mailman's dyno results. When you have a motor custom built by Passion and Jim has Gary build a special set of custom OOF Snipers for the motor, your not thinking that some off the shelf OOF pipes that were set up for a completely different size motor are going to outshine the Snipers. But once again, we're left talking about OOF Snipers because the only members of the site who have the In-Frame Snipers are running them on stuff like Servals or small S.S. bikes and have no dyno numbers to show us. If you actually read all the feedback on the In-Frame design pipes, so far the people who have positive things to say about them are all people who had a pretty low end or more basic pipe (Toomey's, FMF's, etc.) and have made a jump to a Sniper. One or two CPI guys made a switch, but they never mentioned if they had BB CPI's or SB. Also, most of the Sniper In-Frame owners on this site are running a Passion motor anyway. So we're back to my original statement. If your running a Passion motor, In-Frame Snipers might be the best pipe for your build........but none of them have posted any numbers yet. So keep hoping. Were you going to wow us with YOUR In-Frame dyno numbers anytime soon? After all, with a screen name with 421 in it...your motor is the perfect size for the Snipers. Let's see YOUR 10 extra HP.

You'll like them. I've had them on my bike most of this season and we've tested them on quite a few different types of builds. Now everyone can try them for themselves. Buy with confidence boys.

Correct me if I'm wrong here.....but isn't the bike your talking about running a Passion motor? Because I have stated many times before, that since the Snipers were developed exclusively with a Passion built motor......that they are essentially a pipe design that is a perfect custom match for a Passion built motor. I have said many times that Snipers are probably the best pipe for a Passion motor, so seeing a Passion bike improve after switching to Snipers isn't a big surprise. (Tho we have seen dyno runs from a few owners of custom OOF Sniper pipes who found more power with Shearers on their Passion motors.) But I believe they were large motors. Besides, Snipers website claims that their "In-Frame pipes" make 10 more HP than anyone else's OOF pipes. So why do Sniper supporters keep talking about their OOF pipes? Where are all the strong running motors sporting the new IN-FRAME pipes from sniper?

You obviously have never had Trinity set any domes up for you....because you couldn't be more wrong. If your domes and timing and pipes are all working together, you certainly can see big HP improvements. Tim at Titan Racing did a set for me that proved that Trinity's domes were brutally bad. Noss does great work and can get them to you in a heartbeat. If your ordering domes for your motor and the only thing you ask for is a cc size....your doing it wrong.

Or just get some velcro with the sticky tape on the back sides and use it to mount the CDI to the back end of your gas tank. Just put some velcro on the tank and on the back of the CDI and push it on. (It mounts just in front of the seat.) On the flat section between the two screws in the back of the tank that are for your plastic mounts. The regulator can mount to you old TORS location. Or you can do some welding and fabbing......that works too.

If your reeds don't say "V-force" on the side....that's the #1 sign that your reeds are bad.

X2 -

We've built some motors with some pretty heavy porting and still were able to make 75+ HP with FMF's. I like the FMF's for what you have and even what you'll be getting. Unless you go all out and need to jump into a Shearer pipe. But that would be too big a pipe for what you have now. I'd go with FMF FATTY's. If you need forestry approved sparky's, get the Turbine cores and you won't feel any power loses.