Bansheeb0y5505

Guys, im not 99banshee, we're two different people if you didn't notice. lol. but Yup. That exact reason is why I don't make threads asking who will win. If a friend or someone wants to race, we wait until a trip to the Gap Hills. There's a really smooth, wide, straighaway thats perfect for drag racing. We have someone drop there arms, and race. I love racing for fun win or loose. I like seeing whats out there and how mine performs compared to other peoples. Right now im doing some long overdue maintaince on my banshee (Bushings, shock bushings, pilot jets ( still stock pilots making a slight hesitation on the bottom) HD clutch springs, etc. But now im starting to save up because my cylinders are being sent out to get ported eventually. And ill man up to my mistake on the streetbikes. I was pretty sure they were similar technologies, but at the same time bikes aren't my thing. I'm only 16 so im not exactly even close to being able to ride a streetbike. Here's that article. It's a little lenthy of a read, but interesting. I believe it was off motorcycle USA? "KTM has announced record 2008 sales of 25,000 two-stroke bikes and says it sees no end to the high-performance two-stroke. Australian firm Orbital is testing a 200bhp, fully emissions-compliant 1000cc twin that’s lighter and more fuel efficient than any rival four-stroke. Aprilia craves an accessible performance middleweight, says it could easily render its seminal RS250 Euro-3 compliant and has twice already come close to releasing such a bike. R&D departments in Europe, Asia and North America are arriving at the same conclusion: everything you know about two-strokes is wrong, and their revenge against the four-stroke is imminent. “The complexity of a high-performance four-stroke engine is frightening” says Steven Ahern of Australian engineering R&D firm Orbital, owner of key direct injection patents. “To get power out of a four-stroke you’ve got to go for high rpm, very fancy materials, and you’ve got to sacrifice the torque at low and mid rpm. The customer is the one who has to foot the bill and it’s becoming prohibitive – and they’re getting engines the same vices two strokes used to be damned with.” Orbital believes the two-stroke is the only engine which gives manufacturers the performance headroom customers will demand – and experts agree that none of the traditional two-stroke vices need apply. It’s only a matter of time before the truth shows through the four-stroke greenwash, says Denver Lawson, who as R&D consultant to China’s vast Jialing Motorcycle Company is designing a wave of new direct-injection two-stroke motors: “What the world wants is efficiency. And whether it’s efficiency or performance you want the fact a four-stroke wastes two strokes is a big issue. It’s not going to be a case of riders having to be convinced about two-strokes again, the world’s going to demand those wasted strokes back.” Emissions laws dealt a mortal blow to the performance two-stroke in the seventies and eighties, but it’s something other than technical realities that have kept the lid on the coffin, according to Dave Blundell of Lotus Engineering: “Any two-stroke can be made clean enough to pass current emissions standards thanks to Orbital’s air-assisted injection. But manufacturers have invested unimagined billions in four-stroke and they’re very happy for people’s prejudices about ‘dirty, peaky’ two-strokes to remain.” Orbital’s air-assisted direct injection technology (ADI) separates oil and fuel, keeping oil out of the combustion process and surrounding the fuel vapour in a plume of air which allows clean combustion in the short time the two-stroke cycle allows. The injection of the charge happens after the exhaust port is closed, so none is lost, and because the air injection is so effective at atomising the fuel, injector pressure can be lower – meaning the injector themselves can be cheap; far cheaper than the diesel injectors in your car which run at up to ten times the pressure. Orbital’s computer-controlled ADI cuts oil consumption by 80% and fills out the two-stroke’s torque curve to four-stroke-beating levels. It also dramatically reins in fuel consumption, as Mike Ambler - project leader in Aprilia’s engine department when the firm secretly tested ADI on its RS250 - remembers: “The ADI-equipped RS was so efficient that it could run on the tailpipe emissions of the regular RS250 at idle”. Dyno comparision - 450 two stroke vs. 450 four stroke. Dyno comparision - 450 two stroke vs. 450 four stroke. Tomorrow’s two-strokes on the dyno Future two-strokes will have capacities on a par with four-strokes, allowing a milder state of tune than that which earned them their peaky reputation. The result trounces the four-stroke for power, torque, flexibility and even service intervals says Orbital – whose experimental (and under-developed) 450cc single-cylinder two-stroke produced these curves against a rival 450cc four-stroke. The stroker also proved smaller and lighter, cheaper to build, less thirsty and with identical emissions. Orbital earns royalties on every ADI-equipped engine produced, and spent the nineties and early 2000s focusing on mass-market small-capacity utility machines and courting automotive firms. But it’s since entered into partnerships with high-performance bike manufacturers it says will bear fruit soon. Big fruit: “We’re testing a 1000cc engine with performance up to 200bhp and 118lb-ft per litre with performance anywhere and completely emissions compliant” says Ahern. Who those partners are Orbital won’t say, though an ADI-equipped EXC300 from KTM is strongly rumoured. But what it will say is telling: “Everyone, except Honda, is harbouring significant two-stroke thoughts” says Ahern. That’s no wonder, says Harald Bartol, two-stroke engineering luminary and technical director of KTM’s grand prix activities: “When I look at two strokes I see only advantages – the power, the weight, the cost and complexity. And the riding dynamics of two-stroke 250s are very close to the 800cc MotoGP bikes. If I were making a sportsbike for the road I would choose a 500cc V4 two-stroke. I have absolutely no doubt it would be superior to the current superbikes, and be possible with existing legislation.” It may even happen, as Bartol becomes more and more disenchanted with racing’s four-stroke pogrom: “The technical reasons for the change is nonsense. They are all excuses for a business plan which is coming from Honda.” It’s a disenchantment that’s echoed outside of racing. Dave Blundell of Lotus: “There are lots of very pro-two-stroke engineers at Honda, and they’ve done incredible work in the field, but within the firm it’s become regarded as disloyal to support two-strokes. Their influence is so massive it’s distorted the truth about the engineering.” The truth which even Honda knows says Aprilia’s Mike Ambler: “That two-strokes can be at least as clean, and more fuel efficient thank a four-stroke – their own benchmark tests with ADI-equipped two-strokes against their best four-strokes proved it.” Orbital’s Ahern: “10 years ago from an emissions point of view two-stroke and four-stroke engines were chalk and cheese. Honda’s marketing department went into overdrive and stayed there.” With oil and fuel separated, injection computer-mapped and the mixture air-blast assisted, the new breed of two-strokes won’t recognise their smoking, spluttering, peaky forbears. They may not resemble them in capacity either. Orbital now believes two-strokes of comparable capacities to four-strokes, running at a less frenetic pace, offer the best combination of explosive two-stroke power, and flat ’n’ fat four-stroke torque curve. The combination certainly proved mouthwatering for Aprilia. Mike Ambler: “In 2005-6 we looked long and hard at a 600cc two-stroke in an RS250 chassis. The prototype was slated to have 110-125bhp at 8-9000rpm, and weigh 145kg. That would have been a hot-rod, but in the end it was decided we’d have more chance of marketing a Mana than an RS600DI.” When asked if a clean middleweight two-stroke would bridge the yawning gap in Aprilia’s sportsbike range, product manager Francesco Polimeni replies: “I completely agree. And things seem to be changing in the past 12 months, customers warming up to this type of bike. We are keeping our eyes open so as to pounce on any opportunity that becomes available.” In the dyno rooms and laboratories of the world’s most advanced centres of R&D – including Britain’s Lotus and Ricardo – the boundaries of economy, performance and flexibility are being pushed with two-stroke technologies. Riders craving their explosive performance are feeding a burgeoning subculture of limited-run old-school strokers. So how long before they go mainstream again? As soon as riders know to demand them says Steven Ahern: “Today more than ever manufacturers are listening to what customers want, not saying ‘we’ve made this, you’ve got to buy it’. They’ve just got to know it’s okay to demand more torque, less weight and better efficiency at lower cost.” “I’ve ridden the future” Jeremy Bowdler is the editor of Australia’s Two Wheels magazine and the only man outside Aprilia to ride the RS250ADI – the Orbital-equipped next-generation RS. “It was Aprilia’s DiTech-equipped [Aprilia’s brand name for ADI] SR50 scooter that first got me thinking about the potential of an RS250. Jeez it was fast. I started pestering the local Aprilia distributors about giving Orbital an RS250 to play with, and eventually they let slip that there was, indeed, a RS. Eventually – after a long and difficult negotiation – I was not only allowed to see the bike, but I was also allowed to ride it. In the carpark. But at least I was riding something that didn’t exist. Officially.” A long discussion with the guys from Orbital, from sales and engineering, ensured that I would never, ever, ever mention the bike’s existence. So here goes. With the DiTech system the RS could run on various fuel maps, well before the variable fuel injection maps offered by today’s sportsbikes, and the engineers could build almost any power characteristics into the engine, short of an S-shaped power curve. “We could have a really soft delivery, say for riding in the rain, or a broad spread if you wanted that. We could even have an absolute ******* peaky engine, with nothing and then a 500rpm powerband. Almost anything is possible,” one engineer commented (and I saw the dyno charts). The proof was in the pudding. After a couple of laps of the carpark on the stock bike, I started the RS DiTech. Not a puff of smoke to be seen… The best description I can give is that it felt just like a four-stroke, pulling off the bottom end without any clutch slipping or two-strokiness. The noise was deeper, sort of halfway between a two and a four-stroke but the breadth of the powerband was what really impressed. Just a steady stream of non-peaky power. I was excited. As an aside, one of the engineers mentioned he could triple the range of a four-stroke dirt bike quite simply, without any need for a large tank. But there was one great regret: Bimota’s VDue. “We could have made that one work,” they said ruefully. ‘We’ve given up on four-strokes’ Leading outboard motor firm Evinrude sells at the premium performance end of the marine market. The firm abandoned four-stroke development after discovering direct injection offered their 25-300bhp two-strokes more power, better economy and less weight. They’re also emissions compliant to projected Euro 2010 standards. Spokesman Mike Loach says: “There’s a place for four strokes – doing the dull jobs. They’re bloody heavy and don’t give the power or the torque of the two-strokes. We believe two-strokes are simply better and people who try them quickly agree”. But Loach warns that the four-stroke mafia loom large: “The misinformation that’s spread about two-strokes goes right up to government. It’s a serious threat to our business, and we have to confront other manufacturers’ propaganda all the time.” Two-strokes at the cutting edge Lotus and Ricardo (architects of BMW’s K1300 engine) both have flagship two-stroke engines on the test bench. Lotus’ 500cc research engine Ominvore has a moveable ‘puck’ at the top end which it uses to alter the compression ratio, allowing it to run optimally on any fuel. It also features Orbital ADI and compression ignition capability – offering leading-edge combustion efficiency that the inherently energy-efficient two-stroke cycle complements perfectly. Early runs have Lotus very excited. Ricardo’s 2100cc 2/4SIGHT experimental engine is able to switch from 2-stroke to 4-stroke operation. It uses a 2-stroke cycle to meet demands for high torque and 4-stroke for constant-throttle running. In tests the engine has hit 165lb-ft per litre in two-stroke mode…"

Sorry, went off on a little of a rampage before. I do not believe everything I read on the computer. Almost everything I know about engines I learned BY MYSELF or from my father, who's also very very mechanically inclined and actually ran ATV repair for a while. I posted that graph for a reason. I KNOW dyno jets are innaccurate, and read a little high. But it proved my point about a stock bolt-on shee being in the 45hp ballpark. I KNOW there's more factors, like wind, terrain, tires, everything. But I also know from experience that a bolt-on banshee has no trouble in most cases staying even with bolt on 450's and sometimes even being a little faster. And no it's not because they're shit riders. I honestly can't stand that shit. Just because im 15 (well actually 16 really soon) I'm automatically labeled a moron and know nothing. I'm automatically inexperienced and learn everything off the computer. This is NOT the case. I learn what I know from experience and working on things. I'm always asking questions when im working on something with guidance, and I always try my hardest to understand engine's. And I can honestly tell you, I believe I know enough to run an ATV shop for all kinds of repairs. I'm not a moron. I know there's a lot of tools on the internet that think powerbands are a materialistic object, and 2-strokes have cams, but I'm not one of them. And I hate being labeled one. I understand ALL the details of how a 4-stroke and a 2-stroke engine work. I can explain the sonic wave theory on why and how the expansion chamber pipe makes a 2-stroke run. I don't go around spitting out facts for the hell of it without ANY knowledge on the subject. Hell, on another site I saved someones banshee. The guy was new to 2-strokes and was having a bunch of problems. I was able to help him get his banshee tuned in and running perfect all by myself OVER THE INTERNET. The point to all this, is all I ask is a little respect. I WAS a little stupid kid at one point. And these days I see why people got angry with me. But i've been a motorhead my whole life and riding for a long time. The whole banshee vs ds650 thing, maybe his banshee set up for trails won't do it, but I still believe a healthy banshee with a quality set of mid-top end pipes with higher compression and an uncorked airbox setup, WILL beat a DS. That's my opinion and everyone has one. Sorry to be a thread jacker and turn this into a giant bitching fest. Can we all be cool now? We can all believe what we want. That's why it's called an opinion.

Yeah, I may be 15, but don't start criticizing my intelligence because of it. I fucking hate that shit. Age doesn't mean dog shit if you actually know what you're talking about. I, and many other adults who actually KNOW me, consider me to be very mature and mechanically inclined for my age. I work on all my own quads and know how to rebuild any engine down to the cases. My only weak point is carbs and even then I'm starting to learn more about them. So cut that shit out. Moron you want to know why the 600cc streetbikes are so much faster and so much more horsepower? Any idiot can tell you that. COMPLETELY different designs. An inline 4 will generally run much more power, and almost have a 2-stroke like hit but more broad. A 600 is four 125cc cylinders, which not only allows them to rev much faster, but they can pull higher rpm's and there is much more fireing. Instead of only having one piston firing every fourth stroke, you have a 4-pistons all firing at different strokes. That's also why you can't get that much horsepower out of a 450. WITHOUT any power adders (Turbo, nitrous, etc) they can only peak out between 65-70hp. And that's with every aftermarket engine internal and part you can buy. Still nowhere near 600cc streetbike territory. Manufacturer's don't put this in ATV's because it's TOO DAMN HEAVY. I-4's are very wide and too heavy to make use in an ATV chassis. That's the key difference between banshee's and 450's, or any 4-stroke for that matter. There is so many possibilties for them and I bet even Daj would agree on this. You can make a 100hp banshee easily, and still be slightly more reliable then a completely maxed out 450. Raptor 700's are a different story. You can get them into the 80-90 horsepower range. But that also requires 804 kits and such which is 350cc more then a 450. Banshee's still have more potential. 2-strokes for life, 2-strokes forever. What people don't seem to understand here, is I HAVE NOTHING AGAINST FOUR STROKES!!!! I have a 400ex for christ sake. They have come so far and gotten so much more advanced. But they are not my cup of tea and never will be. That's my own opinion. Actually, 2-strokes ARE making a comeback. These manuf. are realizing the ability of 2-strokes. KTM is coming out with that 1000cc two-stroke streetbike. They use fuel injection and direct-injected oil. Keeps the oil seperate from the gas. That 1000cc V4 motor makes 200hp stock and KTM claims that it's still fairly understressed. The E-Tec outboards are all 2-stroke and produce less emissions then similar sized 4-strokes, and make more power. I think you'll see more and more companies turning to 2-strokes. According to the article the only company that wants nothing to do with 2-strokes is Honda.

I'm not headstrong, I just speak the truth. I've ridden so many 4-strokes in my life, and none of them have the same thrill as a healthy 2-stroke. They've come so far, but they're at their peak. There's only so much they can do to the 4-stroke. What's next? They already have titanium valves, light-weight crankshafts, liquid cooling, double overhead cams with high compression, fuel injection, etc. And still just now they got up to par with banshee's, needing that extra 100cc. The only thing left to do it raise the displacement, really. Go race em dude, have fun. You never know. Even if you get beat it's all in good fun. At that point you go get a trail/mx port and don't tell him.

Oh and slopoke, where are you located? I would love to have a friendly race against your TRX the next time I go riding.

I'm done arguing. I know dynojets always read high, but I still bet it's around 44-45 like I have been saying THIS WHOLE THREAD. All I can say is none of you are true banshee owners. A bolt-on banshee will beat a piped DS650. Put a rider who isn't a fucking pussy on the banshee and somewhere where it will hook up, and the banshee will beat it. Not by a whole lot, but it will. I don't care what anyone says. DS's are quick but are not banshee territory. The only 4-strokes that will compete with a banshee are the modern day 450's and raptor 700's. Maybe if you bumped up the compression on the DS, shed some pounds off it, THEN pipe it, it would be a different story. As far as the guy who started this thread, im sorry bro but you probably will get beat. You're shee is set up for all bottom and mid. Banshee's work best when they're screaming and set up for mid-top.

I ride there. The famous Big Ben hill, lol. 3 really steep sides and one easy side. Unfortunately I can't remember directions like roads and stuff, I only know how to get there by driving. Cool place though. It's kinda small, the main coal pit, but across the road is tons and tons of trails that lead over to other coalmines and such. And no the reading anthracite company does not own it.

Wait a second.. now im not so sure about the race. I noticed you have gnarly headpipes.. Those are good for trails but might end up hurting you drag racing... And combined with the 2-1 carb. I don't know about the race anymore..

This is pointless. I feel like im arguing with a wall. All I'm going to say, is that if the banshee can get traction somewhere, and the riders are equal, a bolt-on banshee will beat a piped DS650. All there is to it. As you said, the DS is 490lbs dry! Wet weight is well over 500. A Banshee with aftermarket pipes is around 376 dry (Yes look it up. Most aftermarket pipes are about a 10-15lb weight savings over the stock steel snakes) Plus I have a J-arm banshee which is even lighter.. Not sure by how much. Plus a bolt on shee is right up there with horsepower compared to the DS. Both around the 45 range. And to the torque guy, by different torque, I mean the way it comes on. On a 4-stroke torque is usually in the bottom end. On a banshee, they make peak torque when it hits it's sweet spot. That's what that sudden pull is. Banshee's can't hit 50hp without porting huh? Mobile Dyno on another forum just drives around tuning and dyno'ing quads all the time. He tuned in a 2006 banshee for someone. FMF sst pipes air box lid on w/k&n air filter, removed snorkel v force 3 reeds boost bottle dyno slicks Jetting ended out at: 240 mains Needles in the 5th from top 2.5 turns out on the mixture screws

Yeah, the 2-1 carb is better for trails, but will not make or break a race. I've ever ridden TWO DS's. One was completely bone stock down to the tires, and the other had a slip-on. Never raced against one, but you don't need to race one to feel how fast it is. Explain to me how it will have more horsepower with just a pipe? As I said, a DS650 is lucky to have about 40hp from the factory. If that. Adding an exhaust system on it will not make it a fire breathing beast. There's more to it. With the exhaust I'm going to guess about 44-45 MAX. Now add in the fact it's a 450lb machine. A healthy banshee with just an exhaust system and intake is about the same. 44-45hp give or take. BUT.. the weight difference gives the banshee a much better horsepower/lb ratio. Add in the 19cc compression domes, and Im willing to bet that motor he has is capable of around 49-50hp. And 450's, don't even start with that. There is a lot more technology in the 450 engines these days. They come from the factory pretty stressed out. Much different then the DS motor, which was designed to be not as stressed and reliable. And even 450's, mod for mod, will only be EVEN with the banshee hp wise. A 450 with pipe and filter is only good for about 44-45hp also. SAME AS THE BANSHEE. Throw in his domes and other bolt ons, and in reality his banshee is faster but cannot hook up as well. THAT I did race. 2007 YFZ450. Guy is about equal of a rider as me. Full HMF exhaust system, GYTR CDI, Cam mod, K&N with a power lid. The banshee gets him by 2nd gear and is gone. 4-strokes have come a long ways these days, but not enough to out-power the banshee. The only 4-stroke to be able to be slightly faster then the banshee I would have to say is the raptor 700 with the big 3. But even then it's not THAT much faster. Stock for stock (including the pipes) the 4-strokes will take the shee anytime. But open up that shee with pipes and a intake, even compression, and it's a fire breathing animal. And don't start the torque shit. Have you ever seen banshee dyno charts? What do you think the sweet spot when a banshee kicks is? Torque. Banshee's are actually high torque, just in a different way. FUCK the 4-strokes. For $300 get a banshee ported and shit over anything ever produced. End of story.

As a matter of fact, I would put money down on a race any day against a piped DS. All I have is pipes and reeds with an open airbox. I've ridden them. They're fun quads, and ride BEAUTIFUL.. But on the otherhand they weigh as much as a tank and fall on their face by 7k.

You guys are ALL out of your minds.. You trying to say a piped DS650, has 20hp over a piped banshee with a 2-1 carb and 19cc domes? That is such bullshit. The DS's are lucky to be about 40 at the wheels from the factory. With the full exhaust he's probably around 44-45. The banshee would have MORE horsepower, and LESS weight. The only thing the DS has on that banshee is traction, and that's the downright truth. My friend, who's a BETTER rider then me, has a 2005 predator. 580 Big bore, cams, high-compression piston, and I believe porting. It's tuned damn near perfect too. I still don't think it feels any faster then my shee with just pipes.

I don't know.. I've ridden them both. Both bone stock. Yeah, the DS is quick, but I wouldn't say that it would be a good race. With equal riders his banshee should definitely take him.

You'll smoke him. DS650's are real fun and torquey, but they are only about as fast as a raptor 660. And they are just more of a torque cruiser. They kinda remind me of a cadilac. haha.

Oh and yes, you can use stock shocks on extended J-arms. It will just increase the leverage on the shocks and make them a little softer.

Sorry I haven't responded in a while! I was on vacation. I haven't even started to think about the whole J-arm thing yet. I'll take some measurements and maybe draw something up on cardboard.

Yeah. Nothings guarenteed that im going to make them, but im definitely thinkin about it. I guess I could weld a nut to the inside of the tube and put in an aftermarket threaded heim. I know where to get extended J-arms, they are just so expensive Metal Tech makes em. $430 for bare metal. +2 +1's. lol

Hey guys. I'm thinking of making my own +2 +1 J-arms. My plan is to buy YFZ450 bottom arms, and then fabricate my own upper J-arm. I have a machine shop, welder, and tubing bender so I really don't see why I couldn't? I was thinking, cut off the J-arm but leave the round part that bolts to the frame, and cut the part that holds the ball joint off. At that point I would get a really thick, strong tubing. Do some measurements and come up with a bend to make it +1 foward and +2 out. Reinforce the tubing where I weld it to the round part that bolts to the frame, and reinforce the ball joint area. It's not so much hard work as it is a lot of measuring. What do you guys think? AND NO, A-ARM CONVERSION IS NOT AN OPTION.. I like J-arms.

~~~TRADE PENDING WITH BANSHEE 410~~~ 410 I emailed you. If you can get over here in the next two days that would be great, but otherwise we can arrange to meet up after next tuesday :cool:

Oh ok no problem.

Still available. Banshee 410 never got back to me. Somebody's gotta want these?

banshee 410 i sent you a pm

I figured I would have trouble getting rid of them. But honestly they aren't that bad. I like them, I dont give a shit what people say. They give it a modern feel. But with the route im going with the banshee I think stock cut fronts would look better. If anything I would keep the rears and get the stock banshee front. Just seeing if anyone out there would wanna trade.. so sorry, i dont think i wanna sell the rears. but thanks though!

Just what the title says. Maier raptor plastics for the banshee. Looking to trade for a set of stock yellow or black plastics. Maier's are in nice shape. Black. Only the normal scrapes/scuffs from trail riding. Nothing deep.

Pics of the crank?