rkc

hello it's still their judgement! chicken

both; have you ever heard a court ruling by a judge? you can't seperate the judgement from the judges opinion! Talk about beating a dead horse. Iv'e got to admit that if any one reads this after we're done they will think we're both nuts!(or maybe just me)

A amoeba is considered alive and when I step on it I kill it.There is no such things as glob of cells in scientific community anymore.The more knowledge that is aquired reveals a greater and greater complexities.If you were to spell out all of the A,T,C, and G,(DNA) in the unjustly called primitive amoeba the letters would fill 1,000 complete sets of encyclopedias. A opinion is a jugdement. :: A judgement is a opinion.

If it walks like a duck quacks like ducks its probably a duck! did you not make another judgement on their friendship that it would be ruined if there was disagreement? ::

A very logical rebuttal of a premise "bullshit" it can not be relative point that life starts. It starts at growth "conception" just like everything else. and your premise falls apart when you said ...."and the person can no longer" live" on their own"...Try leaving a 6month old on their own see how long they live or leave Stephen Hawking on his own see how long he lives.

Did you or did you not say to Rebel3190 "and not to be judgemental" is that not a judgement? How do you know his friend didn't ask for advice? Did you hear the converstion? Is that not a judgemental statment? And what are you doing quoting scripture I thought you weren't a believer? Did you not suggest that I should repent? Isn't that judgemental? etc...

EnForcer you're missing it you might want to go reread the past post you did pass numerous judgements just because you didn't sentence any one to death does not mean you don't pass judgements.And you're wrong the bible does not tell us" not to judge" it says do not judge hypocritically. Yes I have to repent (change direction) every day! This is not personal I see/hear self defeating statement all the time this means a contradiction has just taken place in a persons statement.If you're are interested in being able to spot these let me know.

just curious why not be judgmental? I make judgments all day long about people and things.

Support your friend, stay his friend, respect his decision,(eventually)but 1st don't support his decision to murder the child(the goo has full potential for mature humanhood and friendship) I am the voice of the UNBORN I used to be one I know what I'm talking about. We want to live. Maybe others have forgotten that condition of surviorship, I'll remind you. if I hold a knife to your throat and ask you if you want to live the vast majority will say yes(the few who don't are not well and need our support). Even if I tell you the rest of your life will be painfull and I'll spare you the agony you still will say I WANT TO LIVE. I guarantee if any of us chooses to take the high road in this life it will cost you something. Adoption is win win. "If what you're living for is not worth dieing for then it's not worth living for"

Don't ever give up! "If what you're living for isn't worth dieing for then it isn't worth living for"

Shee- Male, Thanks for taking the risk.No it's not foolish especially when you're subjected to reading my post (I feel sorry for most , so you'll have to forgive me for assuming that you can crawl into my little brain and figure out what I'm trying to say) what I meant to say clearer is that if you take any postion to it's end you will probabley find some unintended consequences.If you will be honest and teachable. Then you must admit that if there is no God then the ONLY other reason that you are here (exist) is that by some chance nonliving chemicals (rocks & such) turned into living chemicals (organic). That would be you & me and if you take that idea to the end there can be no good reason to say that anything matters.There can be no purpose in life,no real lasting meaning, saying I love you to your precious children means little nothing because they're just a string of chemicals. You and I are no different than the shoes we're walking in just arranged different. Even if we stomp up and down and say that I MATTER it's just a myth you have bought into from christians who are really living life in vain.And thats what I believe that you matter, I matter, and that your kids matter alot forever.I'm sorry for your poor and uneventful church experience.I had very little,but we're both sovereign adults now and we all must REASON (maybe even together) despite our baggage. Especially since others depend on us. It's been good to read what you think! keith

shee- male, Thanks for your thoughtful responce,but I must admit you have added to my frustration not anger. For a long time now I've noticed a deteriortion in real conversation, between real people many times I've talked with people who will not look at me as equal.At least thats what I FEEL by the style of feedback I receive. Most "wait to talk vs. wait to listen. You did tell me how you arrived at your anger and I appreciate that.I think I read your last post with you in mind not just me.I addressed each point that you made and elaborated, but you did not return the favor. Not everybody is good at conveying their thoughts but you did and excellent job and are well spoken at what you were FEELING. Emotions are just what they are emotions, but I was hoping to find out your reason for your continued insistence on justice, morality & love (your kids) when there can be none with chemicals. I hope to try again with some of your comments in your last post I hope this won't be an illustion of real conversation or relationship even if a honest athiest thinks it's just a LCD screen!

Hey Shee-Male; Before you read this let me PLEASE explain my tone of this message since you can't hear my voice or see my face.This post is from my calm heart only meant for clarity and for your benefit (from my perspective of course!) My usual mode is to take ideas to there conclusion which I'm open to also. With my respect please read. Even though you only wrote a few words I find your thoughts hard to answer back.I,m not sure why your anger is heightened, me or the video or a combination.I can only guess, talking is so much better.Never the less I can defend why I am angry. I have a reason. I have authority.I have a command"be angry.....yet do not sin" the bible confirms my emotion I am in harmony with my heighted sense of anger [side bar; the video makes me crazy, but I'm going to calm down in my anger. And answer like I should. Religious people should correct religious people just like any other subject.I know your angry about the video(rightfully so)but in your post you gave no credit to the chastising that was going on by like minded people with you (religious people). Thats what I mean by common ground. Further more I condemn what they(protesters) were saying & doing(no brainer) and I've know it for YEARS.Let me also add I don't know where they will spend eternity].You gave 3 examples of situations where the religious mask themselves to trick people to drop their guards. I agree w/ possibly only one(other 2 cases people will raise their guards).Funerals people do drop the guards they're hurting. You can say it's trickery if a minister/pastor/priest takes advantage of a group. they're are three kinds of people there some captive, some teachable, some in the middle. Atheist are not usually hired at this type of event. So it would not be inappropriate for loved ones to hire a teacher/comfortor.Now that I have explained my reasonable postion. I'd like to ask you by who's authority are you angry?That video you saw or me are just chemicals, who cares what they think they're carbon based atom piles. They have no purpose, you have no purpose. The universe doesn't care if you/them live or die.There is no meaning to their words or mine so why do you CARE SO MUCH?Tommorrow the sun will rise the same as it always has and will.To be intellectually honest you should concentrate on nerve ending pleasure.Who cares if one group is convinced to think like the other. There is no right or wrong and you might become dirt again tommorrow. Enistein thought he knew about 1% of the universes knowledge. If you're the same then in that other 99% could there be the possiblity of an existing god?I don't think you're an athiest but an agnostic(I don't know). Please let me be clear so I'm not accused of coming under false pretenses.I try(not as successful as I'd like to be) to be kind to everybody.I also have an agenda with varying degrees of intensities to be used by God. And always hang w/ people long enough to find out what you like about them.

Tongue in cheek! thats one of the problems w/internet no facial inflections!

the sky is blue think about that!

Hey 04le: The talmud is now a set of printed instructions that sometimes goes hand in hand w/torah. If you did not catch my earlier post I married jewish.So I know a little about jewish practice. I did not know Shee-Male's back round (thought he might be jewish bcz of his ref.) I included it w/o thinking about it. When I reread my post I see the confusion. You are right though & thanks for your correction.It won't be the last time I need it! also I wanted to mention the christian church has plenty of talmud it's called doctrine/dogma.

Hey Shee-Male, your right, your memory hasn't failed you. The torah or talmud is the 1st 5 books of the old testiment (instructions) It's hard to find common ground sometimes when their's so much shouting (although it's kinda fun somtimes!) I'd like to tell you sometime why I converted. I did it on my own with my own thinking (mostly). You'll have to take my word on this I'm not religious even if I may sound that way. And yes other christians make me nuts sometimes even though some are my bro's & sis's. oh yeah, Moosehead Lager is one of my favorite beers

My new friend,(father figure...nothing perverted please...) you don't have to claim the same to me it has it's consequences. better to be more on than off! "she broke my heart so I broke her jaw" "I wish I was born rich instead of good lookin"

I think I was a little off in deciphering your question(story of my life) I think we're now talking about the trinity I hold to the traditional orthodox view 3 persons 1 nature, 3 who's 1 what and still considered monotheistic it goes beyond reason but not against it(I can apprehend it but not comprehend it) most of us on the thread have confessed" I don't have all the answers "this is one of them. I claim 1 COR:13,12 Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror: then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. I believe the 3 person are equal even though Jesus volunteered to remove his heavenly rights when he was here. God has many names through out the bible. Do you come from thoughts of a Jesus only belief I like to try to keep it clear not get too esoteric I spent some of my past with new agers & Tibetan buddhist to much connotation.

Let me guess,someone asked you (was it blue duece, man's got a brain) how do we use observation to investigate an unobservable being called God? How do we defened truth! It's going to take some thinking on my part to put that in a paragraph there are a few componets from the top down but yes we can prove it & the universe in not infinite it has the potential to be infinite but it has a finite number of particles and it does have growing edges.If I have your question right let me know. I'll be back in a couple of hours! Clear me up if I need it. Can the infinite be concieved by the finite. remember God does have limits. He cannot not love, He cannot make a rock so big he can't move it!

This is just food for thought, since you are open to talking (at least when your addressed in a similar manner) let me play devils advocate with you. You must have a problem with Christ especially since the bible sets Christ apart from every other religion(I know all religions are said to say the same thing -they don't, buddist don't have a problem if your a christian) Christ claimed to be the one and only God and also claimed no one will get to heaven/father except through him. He can be only one of three persons. God , lunatic or conman!

EnForcer It's nearly impossible to have multiple conversions at once (after all we are guys) & with no dissrespect to others but it might be more satisfying if you and converse for a few posts.

EnForcer no stones here I'm just tring to understand/learn I appreciate your candid responce. Let me ask you who's sets your ethical standard in other words by who's authority? And I agree thats what we should be doing if we believe in standards trying to be consistent. We should respect others and their ideas.I do think that the def. of tolerance has changed it used to mean to put up with somthing you believe is false.Tolerance now means that your supposed to accept every belief is true.