hello all, just skimmed through your lengthy thread so i thought i'd jump in and throw a monkey wrench into the works. some times it's best to go to the bottom line. my thoughts are not meant to kill the conversation even though it will sound like it. if their is no god their is no right and wrong just physics.this entire thread has been an illusion of communication.we' re all chemicals and nothing more no different than a counter top just arranged different.we have no purpose no significance ,you don't love, nobody love's you.nerve ending pleasure can be only intelligent choice(oh yeah their is no intelligence no standard or gauge)we are nothing but living a myth of meaning. i always laugh cruely when the counter top say's to the floor I LOVE YOU as i cut it (you) in 1/2.