rtg_61184 Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 OK i did try searching but could not really find everything i needed to help make a decision. if you guys were going to put the very best suspension on your bike you possibly could, for desert racing/dunning what would it be? something that you can buy. and by that i mean a-arms/spindles/steering stem/tie-rods etc. I'm willing and able to do anything necessary to modify my frame or a-arms to fit properly. i just don't have the time to design them from scratch so I'm going to settle for buying something until i get the time. thanks for your time its greatly appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenBB Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 If money was no object, I'd like to try a Sundahl frame with a powervalved Cheetah, but that's just me... A close second would be an outlaw frame using 250R geometry, like broke's Laeger or loboboy's Lonestar I'm workin' on a frame design now, possibly YFZ450 geometry, but no tellin' how long that'll take or how it'll pan out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letsgetthisdone Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 I'd choose the sundahl over the lonestar or laeger, it has more travel. And you all the travel you can get for desert racing/riding. I have sundahls phone number, if you want it, i'll send it toyou in a PM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtg_61184 Posted June 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 thanks for the help guys. what would you think of maybe putting the laegers pro trax front end on. what are the major problems with the banshee frame? can they be fixed maybe with a little work? is it mainly the rake, is it the width of the frame? dont be afraid to get technical. i dont have much experience with the banshees suspension so i can use all the help i can get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevy7398 Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 you must have alot of green!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letsgetthisdone Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 the first problem is the lack of rake. It would be nice to have about 10* of rake to the frontend. And the a-arms are mounted fairly far apart. bring the a-arms in closer to center and give it 10* of rake and it would be OK. but then you still have to do battle with the rear suspension cuz of the short ass shock it uses. On any legit LT frame, the shock mount is right underneath the seat, giving you a nice long shock to work. I've heard the elka linkage works good, but its just a band-aid for a flawed design IMO. The shock should be higher in the frame, and if you did that you could go no-link, but then you lose the rising rate that the linkage gives. As for the laeger t-pin front-end you are still dealing with a front-end that has very little rake and the a-arms are mounted far apart. Mount the a-arms closer together, then make the arms longer to make up for moving the mounts in would give it more travel. Adding rake would be the tricky part, cuz you would prolly have to modify the steering. So to do it 100% right, build a frame to except the a long shock that mounts high in the frame and a CR500 link for the rear suspension, and the front end would have 250R geometry. With all of the time and effort that would take I would just buy a sundahl or a lonestar. I don't think leager makes frames for the banshee anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenBB Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 thanks for the help guys. what would you think of maybe putting the laegers pro trax front end on. what are the major problems with the banshee frame? can they be fixed maybe with a little work? is it mainly the rake, is it the width of the frame? dont be afraid to get technical. i dont have much experience with the banshees suspension so i can use all the help i can get. Pro-trax would be an improvement but not a vast improvement over any other set of aftermarket Banshee a-arms (I like the t-pin spindles and they will likely allow more wheel travel but they may or may not be any stronger and they'll damn sure cost more if ya break one), because like letsgetthisdone said you're still stuck with the stock frame mounting locations and the stock inner tie rod location...which limits you on travel and could be improved in terms of bump steer, scrub, and...fuck I don't know I've been reading so much about suspension geometry my frickin' brain hurts (think I had nightmares last night about roll center, instant center, and tire slip). the first problem is the lack of rake. It would be nice to have about 10* of rake to the frontend. And the a-arms are mounted fairly far apart. bring the a-arms in closer to center and give it 10* of rake and it would be OK. but then you still have to do battle with the rear suspension cuz of the short ass shock it uses. On any legit LT frame, the shock mount is right underneath the seat, giving you a nice long shock to work. I've heard the elka linkage works good, but its just a band-aid for a flawed design IMO. The shock should be higher in the frame, and if you did that you could go no-link, but then you lose the rising rate that the linkage gives. As for the laeger t-pin front-end you are still dealing with a front-end that has very little rake and the a-arms are mounted far apart. Mount the a-arms closer together, then make the arms longer to make up for moving the mounts in would give it more travel. Adding rake would be the tricky part, cuz you would prolly have to modify the steering. So to do it 100% right, build a frame to except the a long shock that mounts high in the frame and a CR500 link for the rear suspension, and the front end would have 250R geometry. With all of the time and effort that would take I would just buy a sundahl or a lonestar. I don't think leager makes frames for the banshee anymore. I heard Laeger quit makin' them too, and Lonestar is kinda iffy. I definitely agree that the rear needs to be done as well as the front. Any idea what sets the CR500 linkage apart from the 450R and YFZ450? They all look suspiciously similar to me. And what makes 10 degrees is the magic number for rake? Just curious and tryin' to learn... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letsgetthisdone Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 And what makes 10 degrees is the magic number for rake? Just curious and tryin' to learn... I just stole itfrom gimmeabeer. Its what we were gonna use if someone ever started to design something for the front frame reconstruction thread... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenBB Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 Thanks I forgot to write that down somewhere heh, I've already had to wade through that thread a couple times looking for tidbits like that. I think I'll see if I can figure out how that compares to 250R, 450R and YFZ450, and maybe Ballance's narrow front... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtg_61184 Posted June 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 thanks for all the help guys i owe you some ICB'S it sounds like no matter what route i go its still going to be pretty time consuming. maybe i'll just have to see what i can do with the front of the banshee frame. im thinking of maybe transplanting the front of a yfz450 from the radiator on? or see what i can do to add some rake and move the a-arm mounts in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB1rd Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 Sundahl frame. Custom fabbed rear swinger with a no-link elka shock in it. Pretty wild lookin shee! http://www.race-dezert.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30861 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letsgetthisdone Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 thats not a sundahl man. someother guys custom creation... And the rear shock looks like its at WAY to much of an angle.. The trinity bike that ben posted above is a sundahl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenBB Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 Damn, nice find JayB1rd!!! That is SICK, he says 18" of wheel travel in front and 22" out back, with shocks on the way for 22" in front as well. It's close to Sundahl's design but it looks like the engine cradle part of the frame is factory, like the upper shock mount location and bracing, whoever grafted it in did a damn good job. The arms and spindles are different too, not to mention the 3-spoke hubs...that's one massive swingarm. Crazy, gotta look at it some more heh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB1rd Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 I just stumbled across it while eating my lunch, that same forum has lots of nice pictures of some cool desert race trucks. Check out the features forum if you get a chance. I saved the pictures to my work computer to drool over whenever I get the chance. LOL I just assumed it was a Sundahl because of the overlapping a-arms. Apparently I don't know what they look like yet! Thanks for clearing that up. I don't like how steep the rear shock is mounted either. I'd have to ride it or see it in action to see if it's effective. My guess is it would have to be set up pretty stiff and with a hard spring to be even close. But I have seen V8 powered buggies with coilovers up front at a similar angle. At any rate, there's some good fabbing skills behind that shee! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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