New owner,Help needed

[DerekT]

Hi I'm a new owner of a 98 Banshee and am having cold starting problems. The quad is stock with exception of FMF pipes and mufflers and K&N filter.The quad will not start when cold unless it is jump started. once it finaly starts it takes a while to warm up and once warm it runs great. Ride for over 15 mins and shut it off it will start up one first kick every time. A seperate or linked problem just occured last ride. The quad would not idle unless the throttle was held on a small amount, I disconected the TORS at the thumb throttle and that problem went away. When it is cold and does not start I have pulled the pluge and they are wet but have good spark every time. I have not pulled the jets to see what is in there but will and report back. Is this a TORS problem, jetting or? Any help would be greatly appriciated.

[superdave]

Make sure that the choke tube between the two carbs is connected...D.

[BenBB]

Hmm for some reason when you said "jump started" I picture someone clamping jumper cables on my leg like that torture scene in "Lethal Weapon" while I'm kicking my Banshee over furiously... but I digress.

 

Hard starting probably isn't the TORS system, but you can simply disable it by unplugging the control box on the frame rail just above the left cylinder. Sounds to me more like jetting (and prolly not much more than airscrew adjustment), or low compression.

 

When you say the plugs are wet, are you using the choke or not? You might see how many turns out the airscrews are, if they are way in or out try starting them at 1.5 turns out and starting it with and without the choke. I'd also check the compression just for grins, oh yeah and also make sure the air filter is clean. Good luck.

[DerekT]

Thanks for the feedback. Those jumper cables are starting to hurt. The chock tube is conected, air screws where 2 turns out ,I set it at 1.5, I disconeted the TORS just incase, air filter is clean and I have tried starting it with it off as well, I have tried choke on and off and gas on and off.New plugs installed and again lots of spark. I will check compression and let you know. I put my finger over the plug hole and it felt strong on both cylenders. I will buy a manual today but does anyone know what the compression should be off hand. what pilot jet should I use with the FMF's and K&N at 0-2000feet 5-10degree C? Thanks

[sheefreak]

Mine will start after about 10-12 kicks even when it is warm out for the initial start of the day, then one kick every time for the rest of the day. I just bought a compression tester and to my horror it only read 90lbs on each cylinder. I have doubted the readings though because I just rebuilt top end this last May. I would guess that is your problem. And what does everyone else think about my readings, it only registered 50lbs on my buddys warriror which you need to push start to get running.

[banshdog]

0-2000 ft. is quite a range.

 

Compression on a stock engine is something near 125psi per cylinder at sea level.

The numbers will go down as elevation goes up.

Someone correct me if i am wrong.

 

When the compression gets down to 100psi and below, you should be considering a rebuild.

 

When you test your compression hold the throttle wide open and kick her about ten times.

 

Keep us informed.

[.]

around 120 psi is where you want to be at for compression.

 

As far as your pilot jet, I would think going to a 27.5 or even leaving it stock at 25 would be alright.

 

I'm running a 27.5 pilot with the fatty's on my 2nd shee. 280 or 290 main if I'm not mistaken (been a while since i've been in there)

 

 

And as far as the cheap compression gauges not giving accurate numbers, I've found that over time, as long as its reading the same number, the compression gauge is working. Check it every once in a while and when the compression starts dropping, you know your top end is starting to wear out. If the gauge is unreliable and all over the board with psi numbers....time to get a different gauge.

[DerekT]

I just did a comp. test and it read 123 left and 120 right so I should be OK there. I will pull the carbs tonight and see what is in there for jets. Because the plugs read wet when I pull them I would say rich on the pilot jet but as it does not start when it's cold I say lean. I will try leaning it out and richening it up some more with the air screw as well. Thanks for the help so far. Any other ideas if the pilot jet is not the answer?

[DerekT]

OK just took the carbs off and it has 25 pilot jets and what looks to be 190 mains?. I know the mains will not affect the starting that mutch so thats a whole other topic. I blew out all the passages and everything looked fine. Again it runs great when hot. I did however notice that with the fuel petcock in the off position gas still leaked out the supply line. The gasket inside had a chunk out of it so I turned it around for now. This would have allowed gas to seep into the cylenders if the needle and seat did not hold. That may explain the wet plugs and hard cold starting, once warm it would not have enough time to flood out. Does this sound right or have I been breathing gas fumes to long.What should I run for main jet? One I find out I will reassemble and try it again. Thanks

[superdave]

If the fuel does not shut off at the petcock then maybe the motor is getting filled with fuel....does not sound like it is hydrolocking due to way too much fuel, but could still be fuel when it is not running...I know that carbs are not supposed to let fuel in when the motor is not running, but a slightly worn needle / seat will allow fuel in and flood the motor....gravity is a great thing...get the motor started and then turn if off...disconnect the fuel to the carbs and let it sit overnight...next day put fuel to it and see if it starts....D.

[DerekT]

Thanks for the input I will give that a try. I am waiting to get some larger mains before I put it together. It did seem wet with fuel in the reed area so I hope that is it. Great forum, glad I joined.

[banshdog]

Where are you riding at? what elevation? curious becasue 190 mains seem very lean, pretty sure that banshees come stock with mains larger than that.

[DerekT]

I just bought it and was supprised to see the 190s. I ride at 0-2000 feet so I will put in some 270 or 280s.

[.]

If the fuel does not shut off at the petcock then maybe the motor is getting filled with fuel....does not sound like it is hydrolocking due to way too much fuel, but could still be  fuel when it is not running...I know that carbs are not supposed to let fuel in when the motor is not running, but a slightly worn needle / seat will allow fuel in and flood the motor....gravity is a great thing...get the motor started and then turn if off...disconnect the fuel to the carbs and let it sit overnight...next day put fuel to it and see if it starts....D.

332787[/snapback]

 

 

What he said....that'll get rid of that questioning and if its not we can go on to other things. Banshee's come stock with 200's. You sure those mains dont say 290? You are way lean if its 190.

 

While you have the carbs off (if it doesnt already) get yourself some boyeson dual stage epoxy reeds. It will improve the throttle response drastically and make the quad a lot more manageable. (make sure you get rid of those metal reed stops, they are worthless)

[DerekT]

well not a lot of luck. I just finished. installing new 270 mains ,Dynojet needles3rd position, cleaning carbs, fixed fuel petcock leak,cleaned screens on fuel petcock, 1.5 turns out on air screw and then kicked and kicked. Lots of spark but plugs dry. Put a bit of gas in each cyl. and it ran for a few seconds. push started it down the lane and got it running but would not idle. all the time playing with the choke it would rev and then bog then rev again. I losened off the fuel cap to make sure it was getting air, turned the drain screws on the float bowls, fuel would flow. Pushed started it 2 more times with the same result.Spark and compression and air filter good so it must be running out of fuel but unsure how? Any suggestions?Am I missing anything?