SANDSTAR Posted November 25, 2003 Report Posted November 25, 2003 Hey boonman, I'm not your buddy. If you did own a busness, you would know that the first objective to having a busness that won't fail is to lower costs. Labor is part of those costs.If the unions drive labor costs above what they are worth to an employer, that particular employer will close shop or find cheaper labor. You would have learned this in college economics class had you gotten past high school. Illegal workers are not crossing the border because Bush is creating lower paying jobs. They are crossing the border because your boss and most every other employer can't afford to pay you what you THINK you are worth. Your worth is what someone will pay you, not what you hope someone will pay you. Also, I find it very intersting that you avoided the environmental aspect of my arguement.I guess you support those people who want to take our Banshees away. I will vote for Bush because he opened all of Glamis to rec vehicle use for the first time in years, as well as the fact that he wants to drill anwar to give me cheaper fuel for my thirsty Banshee. 34mm Keihins use alot of fuel. Quote
SANDSTAR Posted November 25, 2003 Report Posted November 25, 2003 Also, there is a difference between a salary and an hourly worker. What article did you copy boonman? Plagarism is illegal, and last I checked this isn't a union forum. Even you union guys know someone at your work who is milkin' it all day so they can get some OT. Companys can't be profitable with union slugs pulling strings. No profit, no job. Ditch the union, go to your boss like a man and negociate the pay that you think you are worth. Dont be a pussy and pay someone else to do it for you. Simple as that. I think we all agree that the Government(dem and repub.) is just gonna screw all of us no matter what we do. All I'm saying is the democrats and the unions are not looking out for you. At least the republicans don't care where we ride, and how much fuel we use. I'm not mad at ya boony, but the way you cry about your OT makes you sound like you ride a Scrambler. Quote
. Posted November 26, 2003 Report Posted November 26, 2003 All I got to say is that its not going to work. Its not going to create more jobs, maybe a few....but nothing to stimulate the economy. It's not changing the cash flow, its decreasing it if anything. People work 40 hours a week to pay for things they need......they work overtime for things that they dont need. You take away the overtime....you take away people buying stuff. Sure....you might get a few more people that now have jobs that dont like being on unemployment buying things that they need....but not many. I'm a democrat at heart, but I voted for bush. The democrats let the country run free for a long while.....and we did well. But it was time to tighten the reigns up and batten down the hatches. The world is a changing place and if you let things run free for to long it'll come back to haunt you. This however is taking it to far. All he is doing is taking money out of workers pockets that are still going to be working the overtime hours.....just not getting paid the overtime pay....and that is going to keep them from buying things because they have to worry about the things they need. Take me for example. I drive a recycling truck and have a route to pick up. It takes me about 50 hours to pick up my routes for the week. I'm still going to have to work those 50 hours to pick up the route.....just not get paid as much. Now I wont be able to buy the stuff I would like for my banshee, tools to work on the banshee, etc etc. which is HURTING the economy. Basically Bush is trying to get workers to be like.....fine....I wont work the overtime if i'm not gonna get paid more, so the company will have to hire more workers to make up for the lost output. Which is good in theory.....but not how it is in real life. Fact is.....we need that money, and we'll make as close to it as possible.....even without getting that extra pay. Gotta pay the mortgage ya know? Quote
Blue Duece Posted November 26, 2003 Report Posted November 26, 2003 i sure feel for all of ya, for every dollar i pay an employee i cough up 33cents for work comp, i have some guys that pull 16 hour shifts back to back for weeks on end, i tend to use sandstars method, i sit my guys down tell them what i need from them and ask them what they need to make for there services, we agrree on a price, i start writting checks and handing out 1099's i insit the guy has a dba so if he frys himself on the 700amps running through my studio he's on his own, my blanket policy will cover him just like if i had called a plumber to fix the shitter, so i cant get sued, he can pay the 600 a month for health care for him and his 10 kids, he has no paid anything, ive yet to hear any bitching from my employee's he's just outside labor, but now he's self employed so no unemployment, no ssi, no nothin.....i can fire him on the spot, he cant go to the labor board barking i fucked him, and i can write his ass off 100 percent, i get fuckin reamed having hourly employee's........... Quote
Chemical Castration Posted November 26, 2003 Report Posted November 26, 2003 I agree with sandstar on the union. They tried to bring the Union to the Factories in Mexico a while back. All of the big factories just up and left. Thousands of people lost their jobs now there are only 2 factories left, and one of em is still there because they bribed the union to go away Truth is if you're up against a big company or corporation chances are you're gonna get fucked, they have the recources to move their operation somewhere else where workers will be happy to work with a reasonable salary. It sucks but I would do the same if I was in their position. I wouldnt bend over for anybody Quote
boonman Posted November 26, 2003 Author Report Posted November 26, 2003 Hey boonman, I'm not your buddy. Umm, I really never said that you were. in case you didn't notice, I used the ever present sarcastic quotation marks (" ") around the word "buddy." But, it has become apparent to me that you didn't even understand, probably let alone read what I posted. I AM NOT in a union. Stop implying I am. I HATE UNIONS. Phew. Now that that is out of the way, I can address your points of information here. If you did own a busness, you would know that the first objective to having a busness that won't fail is to lower costs. Labor is part of those costs.If the unions drive labor costs above what they are worth to an employer, that particular employer will close shop or find cheaper labor. You would have learned this in college economics class had you gotten past high school. Well, I do own a business. It is not a large business, I have myself only as an employee, and therefore have little to no overhead. How's that for economics. I am not union, as I said before, so I don't have that to deal with that. I don't have to carry comp, because I have no employees. I don't have to pay healthcare, or unemployment insurance either. Yep, I am dumping money out the window with all the cost I have associated with my business. Those that know me, know what I do. And there you go, trying to cut me down with the High School comment. And yep, your right, I didn't make it past the 6th grade. Please man, pull your head out of the place you know it is. You give props to this bill like it is something good. It is not. It is going about things the wrong way. Illegal workers are not crossing the border because Bush is creating lower paying jobs. They are crossing the border because your boss and most every other employer can't afford to pay you what you THINK you are worth. Your worth is what someone will pay you, not what you hope someone will pay you. They are crossing over because their countries suck. And because America caters to these people like Rosie O Fat caters to a chocolate pie. It sickens me to think of the crap that these people get away with. And we let them. And then they take advantage of our systems and programs, and then fly planes into our structures. My worth far exceeds my pay at my current day job. This I KNOW. I have been offered jobs, offering me higher pay, but I do not want to leave because of the benefits of working where I am. Excellent retirement plan, all sorts of good things. Anyways, I am not going to go into that here. There is no need. The reason employers can't afford to pay people what is needed in this inflated society is because down the street, the next guy has hired 10 border jumpers for half the rate of a legal worker. And doesn't have to pay the benefits package either. And therefore he will put the other guy out of business, provided he doesn't get caught. And even if he does, it will likely be a slap on the wrist. For the skilled trades, it is a slightly different story. But, slowly the skilled trades are being phased out with machines, and various other ways to cut costs. (as you pointed out is the way to make money when owning a business). But, let me ask you this. What about he other 98% of Americans that DON'T own a business? Where do they stand? Working for far less than what is needed to make a living in this country. President Bush is effectively eliminating the "middle class". You will either own a business, and be in the upper, or you will work for someone, and be in the poor class. This is wrong. Also, I find it very intersting that you avoided the environmental aspect of my arguement.I guess you support those people who want to take our Banshees away. I will vote for Bush because he opened all of Glamis to rec vehicle use for the first time in years, as well as the fact that he wants to drill anwar to give me cheaper fuel for my thirsty Banshee. 34mm Keihins use alot of fuel. Why is it that you find it interesting? I don't. I didn't "avoid" the issue. I just didn't feel the need to comment on such a blasphemous remark. You think I advocate closing of riding areas??? That is almost too funny. I belong to a couple organizations that are fighting to keep our riding areas open, and fighting to get more of them opened to the public. I also know several people that are in positions to lobby for opening areas, and blocking morons like the safety committee from outlawing ATV's in general. Do you belong to any? That is ONE aspect that Bush is good on. But, with every good, there is a bad. And with Bush, there always seems to be more bad than good. Please, you think I support people that want to take my bbanshee away, and remove the very sacred places that I ride? You have got to be kidding. That is ridiculous and you know it. I take that as an insult. Yep, Bush opened Glamis, and the tree huggers will take it away, eventually. And of course Bush is going to want to drill for oil everywhere. Where do you think he got all his money from? Remember anyone by the name of Rockefeller? Bush is all big business, and loves to snuff out the little guy. That, is undeniable, just look at the track record. Bills like this are just going to be par for the course. Well, the little guys are who founded this country, and are now being persecuted and betrayed by the very people who were entrusted to run it. I would love cheaper fuel. I don't drive a single vehicle that gets over 9 MPG. My shee loves it's C-12 fuel. I hate paying $5 a gallon for it. Ialso hate filling up the tank in my rig every other day to the tune of $35 per fillup. That sucks. Hopefully someone will cheapen up the oil. But if it means that I have to work more for less, I am not down with that. And stop rebuilding countries that don't deserve it. We cater to everyone else but ourselves. Give everyone else everything, and fail to fulfill our own countries needs. Also, there is a difference between a salary and an hourly worker. Indeed there is. but, this is not about salary workers, and for those that don't know, here is the explanation: An hourly worker is one who gets paid for every hour that is worked. Meaning, if you make $10 an hour, and you work 50 hours, before this bill you would get a gross pay of $550. After this bill, you would make $500. Now, an employee who is on salary, and makes $10 an hour, gets a paycheck at the end of the week for $400. No matter how many hours he works. This is based on a 40 hour work week. What article did you copy boonman? Plagarism is illegal, and last I checked this isn't a union forum. I am well aware of the plagairism laws. And I didn't break a one. And furthermore, I didn't copy any article, I only copied an email that I received. And if you will go back and re-read it, it tells you to copy and paste and send to people. Now, I copied al ittle more than what they wanted, but I doubt that they would levy any charges against me. Contact them and see what they want to do. I got no problem with that. And I am still trying to understand why you are changing the subject here.... And on the union forum thing, you right, this isn't a union forum, but, the last time that I CHECKED, this is the GENERAL DISCUSSION forum. On the plagiarism thing, I just thought of something. I copied the email, and stated who it was from, so no harm, no foul. Even you union guys know someone at your work who is milkin' it all day so they can get some OT. Companys can't be profitable with union slugs pulling strings. Damn man. I am not in the union. Perhaps this was directed at someone other than me. I am not concerned with what the union has done, or will do. You are too caught up in this union thing. I am beginning to wonder if you got burned by a union something or other????? You keep bringing up the union thing. This isn't about a union. It is about millions of working Americans getting the shaft from the very people that are supposed to protect them. Whether thay be Union or not, (I am not for unions, and they can all go straight to hell for all I'm concerned) this is not a good thing. No profit, no job. Ditch the union, go to your boss like a man and negociate the pay that you think you are worth. Dont be a pussy and pay someone else to do it for you. Simple as that. You act like the only people that work are the people that own a business. This is NOT the case. Once again, I AM NOT in a union. I do not pay someone else to do my bitching for me. I don't go to my boss. He won't get the message across to the right people like I want it to be made. I go straight to his boss. I go to the owner. I don't give a shit. You want to fire me, fire me if you don't like what I have to say. it isn't a unio shop, so noone is gonna sue for this or that, and drag things out. I don't have to worry about my job, because I come to work, and do my job, 110% EVERY DAY. It's just the way I do things. I think we all agree that the Government(dem and repub.) is just gonna screw all of us no matter what we do. I do agree that the government is going to screw you personally on one level or another. You can't please everyone, all the time. but it is my personal feeling, and I should hope alot of others feeling that this is not the way to go about things. (the particular bill in question, which is the original point of this topic) Bush opening riding areas screwed the tree huggers. But it pleased us all. Closing shit down, pleases them tree hugging morons, and it pisses us off. Morons destroying property, riding and getting in accidents without the proper safety gear adds fuel to the fire of the huggers, and pleases them. It pisses me off. All I'm saying is the democrats and the unions are not looking out for you. At least the republicans don't care where we ride, and how much fuel we use. Once again, I am not union. I never will be. I see the way union people work. It disgusts me. I hope that one day, there will be a happy medium where we will all have more positives than negatives, but with tree huggers around, and crooked politicians making ridiculous laws, it will never happen. There is too much embezzlement, and individuals that screw it for the masses. I'm not mad at ya boony, but the way you cry about your OT makes you sound like you ride a Scrambler. It sure sounds like you are, the way you use insulting comments such as riding scramblers and what not. And insinuating a lack of education on my part. (the high school deal) I am insulted by things like that and am not too happy about it. Truth is if you're up against a big company or corporation chances are you're gonna get fucked' date=' they have the recources to move their operation somewhere else where workers will be happy to work with a reasonable salary. It sucks but I would do the same if I was in their position. I wouldnt bend over for anybody [/quote'] You see Lefty, that is the problem with Bush. He is running the country in a "big business" state of mind. We are up agains a big business. It is called the government. Lobbyists, and poeple in power are just gonna keep on rolling over the little people to make them more money. And workers working for a reasonable salary? yea, reasonable my ass. They work for pennies on the dollar. Deuce, What you described is precisely the way things can be done in your business. You need a plumber how often? you need an electrician how often? Taht is the beauty of outside help. As you said, "I can fire them on the spot". That is good!! Now, what about the other businesses that aren't in the same field as yours? What about the electrical company that you called because you smoked a sub panel, and someone is in your studio cutting a record that needs to get done. You want your shit fixed now. They say, "well sir, all our guys went home for the evening, and noone will work overtime anymore, because they don't get paid for it." Now what do you do? It is Friday, and they have already worked their 40 hours that week. You are screwed untill Monday. Now, had this been different, without the bill, the company would say, yep, I can call Joe, he lives out in your area, and will be able to make it there in 45 minutes. Now, your problem is fixed, Joe gets a couple extra bucks in his pocket, and everything is cool. 700 Amps??? That is nice!!! I only have a 300 amp service. You are cookin some serious shit there!!! Quote
Blue Duece Posted November 26, 2003 Report Posted November 26, 2003 Deuce, What you described is precisely the way things can be done in your business. You need a plumber how often? you need an electrician how often? Taht is the beauty of outside help. As you said, "I can fire them on the spot". That is good!! Now, what about the other businesses that aren't in the same field as yours? What about the electrical company that you called because you smoked a sub panel, and someone is in your studio cutting a record that needs to get done. You want your shit fixed now. They say, "well sir, all our guys went home for the evening, and noone will work overtime anymore, because they don't get paid for it." Now what do you do? It is Friday, and they have already worked their 40 hours that week. You are screwed untill Monday. Now, had this been different, without the bill, the company would say, yep, I can call Joe, he lives out in your area, and will be able to make it there in 45 minutes. Now, your problem is fixed, Joe gets a couple extra bucks in his pocket, and everything is cool. 700 Amps??? That is nice!!! I only have a 300 amp service. You are cookin some serious shit there!!! as long as it's not there service i can fix it in house and have back up power in place, thats why my tech makes 150g's a year and worth every penny, the laws in cali are outragous thats why most of the biz is leaving the state, my brothers construction co. has to have employee's and gets eatin alive with the bullshit, in my case i can get away with self employed help but still have staff on the clock, like i said i feel for you guys it just plain sucks sometimes overtime is a good chunk of your pay, i myself would quit at that point but thats easer said than done, if i had to work 60 hours for 40 hours pay id call that a demotion and accidently run my trash truck into a million dollar home, because your boss doesnt have to f*ck you it's a choice he's making if i understand it right?.....if it was me id still find a way to make my staff happy, since i do offer a service if i have an asshole mixing a clients record i'll loose the client and that most times =a million dollar purchase order for me, throwing my over worked engineer an extra 10'g's is damm near the least i can do, since with out him i have no biz, and i cant do it alone so greed on my part wouldnt pan out.........it takes every bit of that juice to keep this bitch up 24/7 Quote
Cotton eyed Joe Posted November 26, 2003 Report Posted November 26, 2003 Its too damn much work here to have employees too. When ever we have had someone working in the shop we've had them get a business licence too. I hear what Deuce is saying. I am good friends with a guy that works in a sheet metal shop. We exchage work quite often, and most weeks, he's the reason I still have a place to shit. At his job, his boss is CONSTANTLY trying to f*ck him out of over time pay. Over 40 hours/week , instead of 8/day. Well most nights, this guy is working 12-16 hour days fixing a customers bakery or bottling plant, he tired around friday, and goes golfing. He brings that sheet metal shop nearly 2 million in work every year. He makes about twice what I make on the pay scale. If he was bringing in 2 mil to my shop, I'd see that he was making 100-150G, and no less. About the only perk he gets for his labor is a company truck that for some reason now has to be parked at the shop instead of his house, and a cell phone, that they keep close tabs on who he's calling. I understand that you start a business to make money, thats a given, but if you don't have happy employees, you get nothing but raw shit coming out of the door. Pride in your work makes for quality parts, and on time deliveries. Quote
Oilsmoke Posted November 26, 2003 Report Posted November 26, 2003 After 25 years at the same plant, I can tell you that a Company with the mind set of money making will Not hire more if the opportunity to make it's workers work over 40 hours for less pay. If you don't work the over 40 hours they will tell you we will hire someone who will. But it could force the Company to hire more if it was illegal to hold your job over your head if you didn't work the overhours. This would increase employment. Personally I would like every Saturday off to ride my shee. But a Bill like this could screw allots of HONEST HARD WORKING AMERICANS. For Big Business And for Sandstar, Over paid My Ass. If you call a 2% cost of living raise fair, for them Yeah. Quote
boonman Posted November 26, 2003 Author Report Posted November 26, 2003 it takes every bit of that juice to keep this bitch up 24/7 Damn!!!!!!! I am still in awe of your operation. Next time i'm out your way in Cali, I am gonna have to make a pit stop and see your business!!!! I am into all that shit. I love it. I can never stop learning and witnessing physically awesome stuff!!!! I'm going to look for a plane ticket right now!!!!!!!!!! Quote
SANDSTAR Posted November 26, 2003 Report Posted November 26, 2003 Boonman, why are you mad at me for saying you didn't go to college when you said yourself you didn't get past the sixth grade? I'm not coming down on you for that. College doesn't guarantee sucess. I have friends that didn't graduate high school, and I am quite jealous of their pile of loot. I understand that you are not part of a union. Thanks for the clarification. There are a bunch of guys out there that are part of a union, and all I'm trying to do is to get them to start asking why their jobs are dissapearing. I associated you with a union because you were quoting a union rag. As for the overtime, anyone retarded enough to stay with a job that would screw them like that deserves it. An employer can't force you to work more than 40 a week. If you, or anyone else for that matter, are valued by your employer, you will get paid. Most of my guys never ask for a raise. They just bitch amongst themselves about it and take what I offer when the F/Y rolls around. A few of my guys have figured out their worth to me and demand justifiable pay. Believe me, they get it, too. I have two formen who made five grand less than I did last year. But they get shit done and I reward them for it. They don't keep track of every 15 minutes they work for me. Often they are still working after I go home, and I work 14 hr days. Thats how you get ahead in this world. You must make yourself so needed, that It would kill your employer if you went to work for the competition. Bitch about OT and your boss will remember it. Offer to do a little more than the next guy, and your boss will remember that too. As for the founders of this country, boonman, the little guy did not set up this great country. The true founders of this country were busness owners who were sick of government telling them how to run their companies. They wanted to be taxed less and have more control over their own lives. I am not a Democrat, I am not a Republican, I vote for whoever is in line with me at that particular moment, as well as whoever will help me achieve my future goals. As for the scrambler crack, I was heated at the moment and regret stooping to such a low level. I should have said you sound like a 400ex rider. Quote
SANDSTAR Posted November 26, 2003 Report Posted November 26, 2003 One more thing guys, do you ever wonder why the price of stuff seems to rise faster than your pay? Remember 65 cent gas and $2500 banshees? If you all realized the amount taxes, tarriffs, permits, fees,etc.. add to the final price of goods, you would not support the people who are doing this. I pay through the nose to do things by the government/enviromental book. Most of those fees are bullshit moneymakers for some gov program. But in the end, the consumer is the one who gets screwed, and thats all of us. Democrats are taxing us into the poorhouse and giving it all to illegals and crack whores. They know stupid people don't question free money. Its all about buying votes. Most unions tell their members how to vote, and most members follow like sheep and vote the way they are instructed. Ever wonder what closed door deal was brokered by the union leaders? What was in it for them? Who are they to tell you who to vote for? Most of these dumbasses don't even understand what they are voting for. Educate yourself then liberate yourself! Quote
SANDSTAR Posted November 26, 2003 Report Posted November 26, 2003 Blue Duece knows what I'm talkin about. Its kind of alot to digest if you haven't been put in the position of trying to keep a busness afloat. Overhead is a bitch. The gov is a bitch. I'm just trying to feed myself. If I screw up, alot of people get screwed. Can't hand out money like its christmas. Lower my taxes and I'll give everyone a bonus. Quote
boonman Posted November 26, 2003 Author Report Posted November 26, 2003 I was being sarcastic about the sixth grade thing. And as for the 40 hour work week, I am unsure wether my current employer will pay, or not pay. I am at a point that I may be going into business for myself very soon. I am sick of being told what to do, and making millions of dollars for a company that doesn't reward me for it. I am going to patent my designs, (I didn't sign any agreements) and get the hell out of here.... I just need to come across some better machinery to buld what i need. I have an excellent relationship with my current electronics suppliers, and believe I can pursue other avenues. I plan to keep my current business, and make this another offshoot. Indeed the people that founded this country were drawn here mainly on religious freedom. And taxes, and they were frankly sick and tired of the economy that is now across the pond. Why does anyone try something different? BEcause they don't like the way it is being done currently.... Change is inevitable.... Democrats are taxing us into the poorhouse and giving it all to illegals and crack whores. Now that's what i've been sayin' all along. It sickens me to no extent the way illegal people in this country just come here to exploit our country. Millions of people every year. ANd what do we do with them?? Put 'em in jail. A free place to stay, and rights, (sometimes more) that citizens have. And that drives up costs of taxes, and we need more money for funding bull shit programs and spending money on crooked politicians. Just a couple months ago, we had a little loal dilemma in which a high elect official was utilizing a local county highway garage and equipment, (and employees) to landscape a large amount of property he had. He got caught, and the total is continuing to grow the deeper they dig. it is sickening that this crap goes on..... They even lost a friggin D9 Cat. How in the hell do you misplace a D9????? I am still unsure who's building that made it into... They know stupid people don't question free money. Its all about buying votes. No doubt. That's why it costs sooooo much to campaign. Lobbying, and buying people off seems to be the only way to get elected into office these days. no longer can you just break into a hotel, (Watergate) and pilfer information on the competition. It is a monetary deal now..... With that Sand star, I feel we are onother page closer to being on the same level of thinking here.... I had doubts at first, but we'll see... And I wasn't necessarily bitching about the Overtime. I would gladly work 40 hours, if the pay was the same. but, what needs to be done where I work cannot possibly be accomplished in 40 hours.... here's another one i just thought of. Being it is getting close to the season. I am a Certified proffessional alpine ski instructor. ( www.psia.org ) Now, at the place I ski at, ( www.kbski.com ) They charge $18.00 per person for a group lesson, that is 1 hour long. I get paid $7.00 an hour there. And it is only for every hour I teach. So, say i am there for 8 hours, and I get one lesson, I get paid for one hour. but, i do get to ski the other 7. Now, that lesson can have between 1-15 people. So, in one lesson, they can take in $270 and pay me $7. That is bull shit. For a private lesson, it is $60 an hour. How is that justified? It costs me, $800 for a new pair of skis each season, because we are expected to be on top notch equipment, $400 every other season for new boots, and about $300 for new pants every season. And gloves, and a couple hats, and goggles and what not. Now, it also cost me $100 every season to keep my certification, and I also have to take a refresher course every other year to keep it at the cost of over $100. The every other year refresher I must also take 2 days off from work for the event, and pay my way to the resort it is being held at, lodging and all. How is that justified? Also, the resort is about 22 miles from home. Not too far by normal standards, but making that drive every other day, plus the fact that my day job is 23 miles the opposite direction from my home just plain sucks!!!! I am not bitching, I love to teach skiing, and would do it probably no matter what. But, that "job" actually cost me money every year. Kind of funny looking at it from the outside.... but, the knowledge I have, and the ability I possess in the terms of skiing I feel is important to share. What I can do in an hour amazes most. Somehow, the resort just doesn't recognize that.... it is something you just have to love to do... I don't use it to pay the bills, and couldn't even if I wanted to. There is no union, and if there was, noone would be learnign how to ski from a ski school. It would be astronomically not cost efficient. I know of a close friends paving operation. They are non union. the union pavers are constantly trashing equipment, job sites, and everything else they can get away with. But, the union operators are the pussies of the field. They sit atop their machinery, (at the tender age of 25-30 let's say)because they are in the union, while a non union laborer, (often times 50-60 years old) sits in the hole, shoveling and doing "the shit work". I see it all the time. And they would get yelled at if they jumped down to help. That my friends, is bull shit. Unions have drove up cost, I see that, and know is Sandstar, but that isn't the problem at hand. There are much bigger fish to fry...... And I wouldn't be caught dead on a 400EX. So don't worry about it.......... Banshee's only for me. Except maybe for a YZF 450...... Quote
boonman Posted November 26, 2003 Author Report Posted November 26, 2003 Lower my taxes and I'll give everyone a bonus. I wish I could.... Quote
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