Josh Z Posted November 22, 2010 Report Share Posted November 22, 2010 i have almost the same set-up but i'm running 310 mains, at 32:1 , i heard more oil is not good,because the oil doesn't fully burn off the piston and keeps building up and not allowing the gas to cool down the top off the piston like it should.i have 19cc domes but i run a spacer plate, next year i want to port and have domes cut. 100race gas,v3 reeds, reed spacer,toomey2;1 with k&n filter, stock carbs,intake.with t5's, my plugs look perfect, and my banshee runs great. We did some research on it a while ago too and the only thing that the windows really do is when the piston is coming back down they allow the fresh mixture to shoot back up and into that little port on the top. So we decided that it is not worth grinding them out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Z Posted November 22, 2010 Report Share Posted November 22, 2010 i have almost the same set-up but i'm running 310 mains, at 32:1 , i heard more oil is not good,because the oil doesn't fully burn off the piston and keeps building up and not allowing the gas to cool down the top off the piston like it should.i have 19cc domes but i run a spacer plate, next year i want to port and have domes cut. 100race gas,v3 reeds, reed spacer,toomey2;1 with k&n filter, stock carbs,intake.with t5's, my plugs look perfect, and my banshee runs great. We did some research on it a while ago too and the only thing that the windows really do is when the piston is coming back down they allow the fresh mixture to shoot back up and into that little port on the top. So we decided that it is not worth grinding them out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spidy Posted November 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2010 If I'm not mistaken the Klotz's I use says to mix 4oz of oil to every gallon of gas to make 32:1 So that would make 20oz to 5gallons a 32:1 mix. I usually mix 22oz to my 5gallons of gas, so as you can see, my mix is just a hair fatter than 32:1 If I run anything less than a 390 on my mains the bike is a complete DOG and ya got to keep playing with the throttle to make it run (idles fine) . Not to mention the pugs turn white as a ghost. Casa Grande's elevation is 1,398-2,090 feet above sea level. Using the Banshee Jet Calculator inside the Banshee toolkit I found on here... It tells me to make the pilot jet a 27.5 and the mains 370. We tried that and it makes the bike doggy. Soon as we jumped up to 390 and the air/mix screw 1/4 turn out it took off like a rocket (as it should) As I have mentioned before it will run Great one day, both plugs look like there burning correctly. The next time I go out and ride it blows the right side up (Lean) I am really hoping it was the intake boot on the right side that maybe causing this. Soon as I get my pistons and put back together I'll do a leak test and see what I come up with. Should have the pistons in the next couple days. Just a quick thanks to all here that left comments and suggestions! More info always helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKheathen Posted November 22, 2010 Report Share Posted November 22, 2010 imho, if you are running 390 mains and that much pre-mix, then you are way over-oiling. basically, up to the mid-high 200's, 20:1 is fine, but 270+ it's normally better to be in the 32:1 range, and 40:1 in the 300's+. all this, of course varies with the oil and fuel you use. you silencers must drip like a fountain.... large amounts of oil will also lean you out through viscosity, as well. just something to look into. I'm pretty sure your intakes are what kept melting it down. i bet at least the right one had oil creeping through the cracks. another thing i like to do to any carb i install, is take some scotch-brite, or emery cloth/sand-paper to the outside where the rubber clamps. I've seen it leak there more than once from glazing, but never when I've done this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-Madd Posted November 22, 2010 Report Share Posted November 22, 2010 imho, if you are running 390 mains and that much pre-mix, then you are way over-oiling. basically, up to the mid-high 200's, 20:1 is fine, but 270+ it's normally better to be in the 32:1 range, and 40:1 in the 300's+. all this, of course varies with the oil and fuel you use. you silencers must drip like a fountain.... large amounts of oil will also lean you out through viscosity, as well. just something to look into. I'm pretty sure your intakes are what kept melting it down. i bet at least the right one had oil creeping through the cracks. another thing i like to do to any carb i install, is take some scotch-brite, or emery cloth/sand-paper to the outside where the rubber clamps. I've seen it leak there more than once from glazing, but never when I've done this. Never heard of changing premix when going up on jet size. That's a new one to me. On alky for example, the jets are (for arguments sake) twice as big; but most run a richer premix ( I run 20:1 on alky). Using your logic you would reduce it to 50:1 or leaner.I could see the argument to run less oil on alky (or a richer main jet) because there is inherently more oil being introduced into the motor; but I just always go the safe route. Interesting theory.. Spidy - the oil has nothing to do with your problem. It's probably just the intake boot (as mentioned). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKheathen Posted November 22, 2010 Report Share Posted November 22, 2010 well, alky is a different story, but I've seen guys running 20:1 and 340+ mains and loading everything up with oil. with my oil, i was over-oiling with 32:1 @310. large amounts of oil in reg. fuels does make a big impact on viscosity. you can see this first hand by jetting (with chops) on 2 different ratios, like 20:1 and 40:1.....you can also see how much it's loading up by getting into the engine and exhaust, but generally, the amount of smoking is a good signifier, relative to what oil you run.... it's not really a thing about changing mix as you go up in jet size, just usually makes a big difference when making huge jumps, like going from stock to piped and such, you usually go to 32:1 automatically, and same thing with going from mild bolt-on, to bigger ported builds. usually running 40:1 or less. i don't thing I've seen anyone running more than 32:1 without dealing with the effects....while needing jetting around 300+. it's a big grey area; nothing solid as far as which point, all relative to the build, fuel and oil, but the effect is there. i did mention, that it's just something more to look into, and not the big problem... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spidy Posted November 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2010 (edited) imho, if you are running 390 mains and that much pre-mix, then you are way over-oiling. basically, up to the mid-high 200's, 20:1 is fine, but 270+ it's normally better to be in the 32:1 range, and 40:1 in the 300's+. all this, of course varies with the oil and fuel you use. you silencers must drip like a fountain.... large amounts of oil will also lean you out through viscosity, as well. just something to look into. I'm pretty sure your intakes are what kept melting it down. i bet at least the right one had oil creeping through the cracks. another thing i like to do to any carb i install, is take some scotch-brite, or emery cloth/sand-paper to the outside where the rubber clamps. I've seen it leak there more than once from glazing, but never when I've done this. Wish I could tell you that oil was coming from everywhere but it's not. Intake boots were always clean and dry. My silencers got some black on the ends but never wet with oil. I realize with the amount of oil I was using in my pre-mix it should have been dripping from the intakes and from the pipes. I'll do the sand paper trick before I install the carbs again. Thanks! I'll tell ya I have tried every main jet from 290 threw 400. when we hit 390 it had the hardest pull and ran its best. Do you think I'm over jetting it? I know your not here to see first hand but... I'll take any advise lol! Some rework on the jet calc and it tells me my mains should be between 300-360 running 32:1 Edited November 22, 2010 by Spidy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKheathen Posted November 23, 2010 Report Share Posted November 23, 2010 yah, i'm sure that it will like smaller mains with the new intake boots... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-Madd Posted November 24, 2010 Report Share Posted November 24, 2010 Wish I could tell you that oil was coming from everywhere but it's not. Intake boots were always clean and dry. My silencers got some black on the ends but never wet with oil. I realize with the amount of oil I was using in my pre-mix it should have been dripping from the intakes and from the pipes. I'll do the sand paper trick before I install the carbs again. Thanks! I'll tell ya I have tried every main jet from 290 threw 400. when we hit 390 it had the hardest pull and ran its best. Do you think I'm over jetting it? I know your not here to see first hand but... I'll take any advise lol! Some rework on the jet calc and it tells me my mains should be between 300-360 running 32:1 Yeah, a motor shouldn't be able to run period on #290 AND #400 mains. A motor that was pig rich (but still ran, and cleaned out) with 400s would burn down with 290s. And a motor that was way lean with 290s (but would still run) would still be so fat it wouldn't get out of its tracks with 400s in it. JMO. AK is right, you fix the leak and you'll probably have to go down on jetting. Ok to start where your at though, and go down from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imike24 Posted November 27, 2010 Report Share Posted November 27, 2010 ok __________________ extenders stretchers sizegenetics devices devices devices sizegenetics devices devices devices Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry's Shee Posted November 28, 2010 Report Share Posted November 28, 2010 IMIKE24 , what's up with all those links? You some kind of weird?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RZBansheeMan Posted November 28, 2010 Report Share Posted November 28, 2010 I'm by far means no expert here, but I've always ran 40:1...Just have thought that 32:1 is too oil rich. As for the piston windows, I'm more then willing to bet that they are for back pressurizing the intake track to help close the reeds and force the charge through the boost port above the intake windows. Not for the incoming intake charge. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n2otoofast4u Posted November 28, 2010 Report Share Posted November 28, 2010 I'm by far means no expert here, but I've always ran 40:1...Just have thought that 32:1 is too oil rich. As for the piston windows, I'm more then willing to bet that they are for back pressurizing the intake track to help close the reeds and force the charge through the boost port above the intake windows. Not for the incoming intake charge. Mike AK is giving quality advise? Weird.. I think one thing that he meant that was over looked and he is 100% correct, if you run say a 20:1 mixture, and then without jet change jump to a 40:1 you will see the bike running richer do the the fact that the fuel/oil mixture entering the motor is going to have a much larger percentage of fuel in it. I dont think that your oil ratio had anything to do with your problem, and it makes good sense that you were having to jet up to compensate for an unknown air leak. We have run everything for 20:1 to 100:1 and have seen no power gains or losses through the dyno. Becuase of the properties of alky, I run 20:1 simply because Im lazy and dont like to purge every night so it seems that the additional oil doesnt get "washed away" as easy as it seems to with less oil. In the gas bikes, 40:1 always seemed to work well, and generally you have 5 gallon cans, and the oil mfgs sell containers that are sized properly to just dump in a 5 gallon can so you dont have to measure it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RZBansheeMan Posted November 28, 2010 Report Share Posted November 28, 2010 In the gas bikes, 40:1 always seemed to work well, and generally you have 5 gallon cans, and the oil mfgs sell containers that are sized properly to just dump in a 5 gallon can so you dont have to measure it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spidy Posted December 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2010 Ok fellas, Here is an update. Got my motor back together. Did not go with Wiseco pistons ... Went with HotRods stroker pistons this time around. Everything went together as it was meant to. I'm happier than a pig in shit right now! Replaced both pistons, replaced both intake boots, and re-jetted carbs to a 330 main jet. Rode for about 20min here in my backyard, got her warmed up then just let it set. Been setting about 2hrs now. going to load it up and take it for a spin. Wanna do some plug checks since re-jetting. Seems to have all its power back. To be honest with you guys, I was and still am a bit nervous about dropping the jet size. But if the 390's were in it to satisfy an air leak then all is good because I have no air leaks now! I put the 330's in it right away. Gave it 1/2 choke all it took was 1 kick. Well I'm heading out to get it jetted perfectly. Many thank to all the reply's everyone gave, everything was very useful! Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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