TurbStLCards Posted November 12, 2013 Report Share Posted November 12, 2013 I got my project bike up and running but the website for Kush sprockets is more useless than ever and I fear they are out of business. So my planned way to lessen shock on the drivetrain is out the window. I want to keep my rear wheel but it doesn't have a cush drive and I'm concerned about the longevity of my tranny on the pavement. So my next solution involves getting a slipper clutch that you see on the four stroke street bikes, supermotos, and I now see Yamaha putting them in the YFZ450 to limit the back torque that is making its way to the tranny. So here is my question. Does the Banshee clutch share parts with any other Yamaha bikes? Perhaps some four stroke? Maybe if I was a machinist I could buy a slipper clutch and make it work in the Banshee. I've been scouring parts fiches with no luck so I figured I'd ask. I wonder how different the clutches can be? A basket some plates and springs? Something has to work wouldn't you think? If you have any other ideas to limit back torque on the transmission, I am all ears! Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n2otoofast4u Posted November 12, 2013 Report Share Posted November 12, 2013 What are your concerns about the OEM tranny? There are lots of pretty high hp bike doing clutch drops on pavement without fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickedcarbine Posted November 13, 2013 Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 Just about any issue with the clutch/tranny has been solved on bikes upwards of 200+ HP. What you are asking isn't needed and it sounds like you are trying to re engineer something before even understanding what you are dealing with. The fact that you are hoping some cushioned sprocket would solve your problems is a bit out there but there are plenty of real world solutions you should take the time to research. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurbStLCards Posted November 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 Ah damn, gotta love forums! Every street bike with over 40hp comes a cush drive nowadays, the RZ 350 came with a cush drive, so I apologize for expressing a concern and desire to add a little bit of shock dampening to the driveline. Yes, I don't have a 100% understanding of the innerworkings of every moto/ATV transmission, hence the question. Fuck it, I'll just blindly go about my business and when something happens I'll shout "But who could have seen this coming?" What I gather from your shit post is that cush drive/sprockets and slipper clutches exist in the realm of moto fairy tales. So what are these real world solutions you have an almighty knowledge of? Anyway, to N2fast, my concern stems from what I alluded to earlier in this post. Yamaha sees fit to put a cush drive on most of their street bikes these days and they saw fit to put one on the oh so similar to the banshee, RZ350. I've read about Rekluse, slipper clutches, cush drives, etc and spoke with others in the industry for their opinion. Most have thought it worthwhile to pursue something to isolate the tranny from the shocks of the pavement. I haven't found anything off the shelf that will work for my application so I asked about cross fitting. So hopefully someone may know of somt tip or trick. If they don't that's fine, perhaps they will just go on with their business and not be a dick about things. I've watched many a banshee drag video but can't always be sure of the inner workings of their tranny. Plus, the forces acting upon those gears are different when accelerating down a dragstrip versus downshifting entering a corner. I'm not doing anything tomorrow or operating with haste. Just trying to head off any potential issues. If it's an imagined issue, great, someone will tell me and I will move on to the next thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n2otoofast4u Posted November 13, 2013 Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 Now Im on board with your concerns. At first read I thought your concerns were initial shock concerns. With that being said, Im officially not the guy to help you here! However, your build is bad ass and Im going to go out on a limb and assume that your concerns are plenty justified. With that said, ride that bitch! Tranny parts are cheap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickedcarbine Posted November 13, 2013 Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 Sorry if you feel I was trying to be a dick.... But it wasn't supposed to come accross that way. I was just saying that you shouldn't be worried about re engineering the driveline as many people have already done that. There are parts available and and they don't require you to be a machinist. I didn't tell you to go blindly at it and instead I suggested a little research on what ha been done to improve the banshee driveline. Never did I try to discredit a slipper clutch or Cush drive. I know what your build is and I understand you are trying to keep the shock from blowing the single tire loose. I'm way in to ice racing and have done a lot of weird things when trying to keep a banshee from blowing tires loose and not chattering the tire when slowing So I get what you're intentions are. Lock up tuning would be your best start. It will be in a way more difficult because you don't have a monster engine trying to walk its way through the clutch. Most guys will say it's over kill, but those are the same guys that said 6 heavy springs were best a few years ago. You just have to think outside the box and really imagine what you want and when you want the clutch to do its thing and apply that to your application. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starwriter Posted November 13, 2013 Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 A Hinson springloaded basket might have a little more give than the stock clutch cushions. Also, from the vids, it seems to me that you need to gear it lower. Smaller front sprocket or larger rear sprocket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickedcarbine Posted November 13, 2013 Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 X2 on spring loaded basket Maybe peek around the RZ forums? There has been a few fellas to do total Ducati style dry clutch conversions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurbStLCards Posted November 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 Also, from the vids, it seems to me that you need to gear it lower. Smaller front sprocket or larger rear sprocket. I agree. I'll get it jetted properly and see what gear it likes to be in on tight, twisty road corner exits. Just cruising though it feels like I could drop a tooth ot two up front. Sorry if you feel I was trying to be a dick.... But it wasn't supposed to come accross that way. I was just saying that you shouldn't be worried about re engineering the driveline as many people have already done that. It's fine. Thanks for clarifying. I'm not too worried about the transmission's ability to handle gobs of staightline power. The only bike tranny I've ever broken was downshifting during an aggressive corner entry on the Buell. Who knows where the wear and tear mostly came from that caused the failure but that it happened while downshifting is always something I've tried to keep in mind during this build. Dropping a ton of gears and backing it in is what a lot of the appeal of a supermoto. Plus I have yet to find a Banshee set up with a slipper and it would be kind of neat to say I have the first slipper clutch banshee. One guy at a shop I visited today suggested to just sell the Marchesinis and go with a spoked wheel and a standard cush hub. No fucking way! Like N2fast said, tranny parts are cheap and I'd rather the bike look like a million bucks and break every now and then v. having a run of the mill reliable bike. I need to find a yamaha shop worth a damn that might have a YZ or YFZ 450 clutch and a banshee clutch laying around so we can compare and contrast to see how far off the parts are. Thanks for all the ideas and replies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickedcarbine Posted November 13, 2013 Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 You should be good on tranny life. Your not making major power and the bike is light. Just keep the eccentric adjusted so you don't have to stomp it in and out of gears and you should be ok on the shift forks which would be the weakest link. Have you thought about having the tranny cut? It will make it way smoother to shift and put it to the ground a bit less abruptly. Not talking like the drag guys either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaN Powersports Posted November 13, 2013 Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 I would imagine a Hinson basket and Direct Drive pressure plate will satisfy your worries. Short of that, all I can think of is an axle embossed to the drive hub in rubber (much like a long driveline on a '70's passenger car or van) But, good luck with that one ...... Road bikes have the hubs set up like that more for safety (Tires breaking loose), not driveline shock, and the first mod for a track bike is to take the rubber inserts out of the rim and replace them with aluminum, or Kevlar pucks. My 2 cents is you are focusing on something that doesn't need to be (my opinion). I'd run the hell out of it and if there is a problem, IT's a Banshee. Would be easy enough to replace what broke, and start down the engineering road. In the meantime, Check out King of Da Street on facebook-you'll see all of the asphalt related abuse on a trans to compare against. Those big slicks getting full throttle dumped onto it is about the most harsh form of torque load imaginable-waay more than a hot down shift play riding. You'll loose traction and spin before stressing components too badly-it's not a 7000 pound pick-up....Ride like hell and have a blast doing it .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevota84 Posted November 13, 2013 Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 A lit of the aftermarket banshee clutches use r6 parts, I'm not sure what you'd need to cross over for a slipper to work. Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaN Powersports Posted November 13, 2013 Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 BTW your clutch IS a slipper,and you control it with your hand....... Also imagine MX all of the unloading and loading with the jumps, turns, and power blipping- I'm confident your already covered Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurbStLCards Posted November 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 A lit of the aftermarket banshee clutches use r6 parts, I'm not sure what you'd need to cross over for a slipper to work. Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk Thanks for the tip! I'll try to get a look at a R6 clutch side by side with a Banshee clutch some time. As for now, I'll work on jetting and just ride the piss out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaN Powersports Posted November 13, 2013 Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 Earlier FZR 1000....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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