Help! Fresh top end

[Cyan]

Hey guys i just finished putting to gether my fresh top end and now i have the right side not firing is this normal? does it need to seat more?? and should i just let it idle or try to bring up the rpm to get it to seat?? thank you all

Sean

[.]

did you reconnect the choke tube between the two carbs?

[Cyan]

yup everything is hooked up i had spark and 110 comp without seating yet. i've been letting it idle and it seems to be comming alive?, should i let it heat right up then cool off and finish the heat cycle for break in?

[.]

yeah, sometimes it doesnt want to fire right away, make sure you vary the throttle but on the initial heat cycle (15 min or so until the cylinders and head get nice and hot), just blip the throttle up and down and you may have to give it a tiny bit of throttle to keep it running.

 

Let it cool down and then repeat the process, giving a tiny bit more throttle and let it cool down. Check head bolts for torque and then get on and ride around your yard for 15 minutes varying throttle and giving it a little more throttle. You'll feel if you push it to far.....it can only break in so fast so dont try to push it, the engine will rev to the point it wants to. By the time you are riding it, you should be able to just start getting it to the powerband. Let it cool down after the initial ride.

 

You'll be able to ride it for a half hour or so and every time you get on the throttle you'll feel it have more power and be able to rev farther. It will be fully broken in around 3-5 gallons. It'll feel broken in before then, but all of a sudden the rings will fully seat and it'll get a lot faster all of a sudden.

 

What kind of engine mods do you have. If you dont already, I definitely recommend a set of dual stage epoxy (boyeson) reeds, or some vforce. It'll completely change the way the shee reacts throttle response wise. The stock setup has way to much lag time.

[.]

Just wanted to add, if you cant keep it idling, you can adjust the screw on your thumb throttle (cable adjustment), to hold the throttle so your thumb doesnt get tired for that 15 minutes. Be ready to drop it back down because it'll start to bring the throttle up after a couple minutes and it finds its idle.

[Cyan]

right now i'm running preaty much stock minus a pro design cool head with 19 cc domes, ( i was suposed to be sent 21cc's but i just want to ride lol), and a wisco pro lite piston set .5 mm over, looking at getting T6's and some either Vforce 2's and boysen's not sure on those yet.

Just letting her cool down now she seemed to start to idle a little better near the end of the heat cycle and was firing on both cyls

[CRAZY-SHEE!]

right now i'm running preaty much stock minus a pro design cool head with 19 cc domes, ( i was suposed to be sent 21cc's but i just want to ride lol), and a wisco pro lite piston set .5 mm over, looking at getting T6's and some either Vforce 2's and boysen's not sure on those yet.

Just letting her cool down now she seemed to start to idle a little better near the end of the heat cycle and was firing on both cyls

 

19cc domes? u might want to check your compression :/ listen for any pinging sounds.. alot of times on 19cc domes u gotta run 50/50 or straight race.

[Cyan]

I ordered 21 cc domes but these had a 19 stamped on them so i assuming there 19 cc ?

 

Also i'm still in the process of breaking it in, On 94octain pump gas once i'm done the initial process i'm gonna recheck comp and see if i need to run higher or not. wich is crappy cause 110 oct is 70$(can) a 5 gallon pale around here

Edited May 19, 2007 by Cyan

[bentvalve]

i have some 21cc domes if you need them.don

[blowit]

I ordered 21 cc domes but these had a 19 stamped on them so i assuming there 19 cc ?

 

Also i'm still in the process of breaking it in, On 94octain pump gas once i'm done the initial process i'm gonna recheck comp and see if i need to run higher or not. wich is crappy cause 110 oct is 70$(can) a 5 gallon pale around here

 

 

Now I am not sure of your elevation but those 19s with stock porting and a fresh engine should be pumping more than 110. You need to grab another gauge or borrow one. 19s should pump just over 200psi on a stock motor. We push our pump motors up there but you have to be real careful of detonation. You might want to back that off a bit to be safe.

 

Your problems sound like carb balance. If you have not checked that after removing the carbs, you might want to check it.

 

 

Brandon

[.]

The 19's I had put my compression at inbetween 160-165. They put me right at the point of running race gas. When I was running my 19's I always mixed in a gallon of race to 5 gallons just to be safe. Mainly for the fact that the race gas has a lot of non detonation properties to it.

 

You gotta remember that the compression isnt going to be up there until the rings seat. I checked compression on my fresh top end before I ever started it and it was right around 100. When the rings seated it went up to 160 or so and climbed every heat cycle until I got some gas through it.

 

Just follow the break in process like I told you and you should be alright. Just a thought but what kind of pre mix are you running? You shouldnt really be using a synthetic for break in (honda makes a nonsynthetic premix that you can buy at a honda dealer), but at least run a semi synthetic for break in. If you run a full synthetic you can chance not letting your rings seat as well as they possibly can and you'll end up with blow by easier.

 

It always gets me when people have run an engine for a year and when they take it apart they say how it really looks good, you can still see the crosshatches from honing it. Your rings are supposed to wear those crosshatches away and thats what creates the seating of the rings.

[blowit]

The 19's I had put my compression at inbetween 160-165. They put me right at the point of running race gas. When I was running my 19's I always mixed in a gallon of race to 5 gallons just to be safe. Mainly for the fact that the race gas has a lot of non detonation properties to it.

 

You gotta remember that the compression isnt going to be up there until the rings seat. I checked compression on my fresh top end before I ever started it and it was right around 100. When the rings seated it went up to 160 or so and climbed every heat cycle until I got some gas through it.

 

Just follow the break in process like I told you and you should be alright. Just a thought but what kind of pre mix are you running? You shouldnt really be using a synthetic for break in (honda makes a nonsynthetic premix that you can buy at a honda dealer), but at least run a semi synthetic for break in. If you run a full synthetic you can chance not letting your rings seat as well as they possibly can and you'll end up with blow by easier.

 

It always gets me when people have run an engine for a year and when they take it apart they say how it really looks good, you can still see the crosshatches from honing it. Your rings are supposed to wear those crosshatches away and thats what creates the seating of the rings.

 

I did state that wrong and meant just UNDER 200psi static. This of course depends greatly on air density. I am not sure of your elevation but 160ish with 19s around here would be considered low. I would say that a 60lb variance from new to run in is quiet a bit. Our motors will stay within a 15lb window from fresh to 2 hours to 50 hours. You may have some gauge issues there. The way in which a bore is honed matters greatly on run in time, life of piston and bore, and compression.

 

 

Brandon

[Cyan]

My elevation In my drive way where i was breaking it in and running it is 357 Ft above sea level. where i go ridding around here fluctuates around 1000-1200 ft above sea level.

 

You might be right about carb balance, for some reason i can set up a holley but i can't get the dam hang of these little carbs, maybe because i havn't been shown how? not sure i've read the carb threads but really with out pics i'm lost lol

Edited May 20, 2007 by Cyan

[blowit]

The 19's I had put my compression at inbetween 160-165. They put me right at the point of running race gas. When I was running my 19's I always mixed in a gallon of race to 5 gallons just to be safe. Mainly for the fact that the race gas has a lot of non detonation properties to it.

 

You gotta remember that the compression isnt going to be up there until the rings seat. I checked compression on my fresh top end before I ever started it and it was right around 100. When the rings seated it went up to 160 or so and climbed every heat cycle until I got some gas through it.

 

Just follow the break in process like I told you and you should be alright. Just a thought but what kind of pre mix are you running? You shouldnt really be using a synthetic for break in (honda makes a nonsynthetic premix that you can buy at a honda dealer), but at least run a semi synthetic for break in. If you run a full synthetic you can chance not letting your rings seat as well as they possibly can and you'll end up with blow by easier.

 

It always gets me when people have run an engine for a year and when they take it apart they say how it really looks good, you can still see the crosshatches from honing it. Your rings are supposed to wear those crosshatches away and thats what creates the seating of the rings.

 

 

I did not see your last paragraph till now but wiping those crosshatches off is what is called glazing and that is "exactly" what we are trying to remove when honing a cylinder. Those marks are VERY important for oil retention and the life of your engine depends on them. Maybe Fire guy can take on this exhaustive explanation of why but crosshatch angle and depth as well as what abrasive is used and in what manor all play into how an engine will run in and last. Why do you think those ribs are on the side of your new pistons?? A new engine will run hotter and you must be careful not to glaze the cylinders during the process.

 

Brandon

[Cyan]

assuming my carb balance is off and that is why my right cyl won't idle right. What is the best way to adjust the carbs to ge ta good base setting so you can do a plug chop and not mess anything up in the process. I know with automotive carbs most have a base spot as in turn pilot all the way in then back out 3/4 turns or so on. anyhting like this i can do or should i just let her run and adjust it by ear?

Thanks again

Sean