criswrld Posted March 30, 2005 Report Posted March 30, 2005 I've read so many discussions involving carbs and jetting and such and still can't figure out my problem so if i could get some responses it would be greatly appreciated. First off i have a 2001 banshee w/stock carbs, tors removed with screw on tops and not sure what kit it is because it was there when i purchased it. Anyway my question is that when you remove airbox and look into carbs the slides are not all the way closed and theres a gap aprox. 1/4 of inch and if you twist throttle all the way open they obviously go way too far up, there are aftermarket needles which are longer than stock ones and do not pop out of carbs.Given this problem if stock needles were used they would pop out below. I've tried numerous things to correct this such as adjusting the top of carb tops, nothing. Slides are in correctly and not backwards. If you thread the idle screws all the way out this will close about half the distance but not fully shut still. Carbs are in sync because they open and close at the same exact time. Me being no expert by far and most of my knowledge coming from this site or others like it have come down to a few possibilities...................... 1. It does have a twist throttle on it but im not sure if cable was replaced which if it's from the thumb throttle could be to short which is keeping slides open???? Just a guess. 2. I don't know shit about syncing of carbs and thats the problem?? 3. Something to do with carb tops although they are screwd down tightly?? 4. Your guess is as good as mine?? Your knowledge is much appreciated so please help and thank you!!! Quote
J.J. Posted March 30, 2005 Report Posted March 30, 2005 You never mentioned how the bike runs ? 1) Does it idle ok? if so, no problem with the slide not dropping down all the way. Are the tapped holes for the idle screws drilled in the correct position in the boss on the side of the carb? 2) As the slides are moving up and down in unison, no problem with the carb sync. 3) How is the WOT performance?, if ok, I wouldn't worry about the slides going too high. 4) If you look at the dimples in the slide through the little windows, the dimples in my carb slides can move past the window. 5) How much free play in the throttle movement? It could be a problem with the cable, take a good look at the splitter arrangement. Quote
Ducman Posted March 30, 2005 Report Posted March 30, 2005 Like JJ said, are you doing this to correct a problem in how it is running or just want to check that the carbs are in synk? The space under the slide when it is down is so it can get enough air to idle. This is normal. You want this space to be even on both carbs. Make this space even with the idle screws. When you just start to crack the throttle and the slides begin to move, you want them to move at the same time. Make the slides move evenly by adjusting the the nut on top of the carb cap to add or remove slack from the cable on either side. The needle is not supposed to come all the way out of the dump tube, stock or aftermarket. Quote
criswrld Posted March 31, 2005 Author Report Posted March 31, 2005 Like JJ said, are you doing this to correct a problem in how it is running or just want to check that the carbs are in synk? The space under the slide when it is down is so it can get enough air to idle. This is normal. You want this space to be even on both carbs. Make this space even with the idle screws. When you just start to crack the throttle and the slides begin to move, you want them to move at the same time. Make the slides move evenly by adjusting the the nut on top of the carb cap to add or remove slack from the cable on either side. The needle is not supposed to come all the way out of the dump tube, stock or aftermarket. 347485[/snapback] I PM'd JJ letting him know that i just got done installing new pipes, carbon reeds and spacers and was trying to dial in carbs jetting. Thats when i noticed the slides weren't in the closed position when not running. I wanted to make sure this wasn't a problem while it was all apart to correct it if it was. As for how it's running it's very hard to tell if the slides are a issue or not because as you all know it takes time just getting the carbs dialed. But as to are they in sync, i would say yes because they open and close at the exact same time with no hesitation. With the aftermarket needles being longer they don't come out of dump tube, however when i went to switch to the stock ones to make dialing it in easier on me the stock ones where popping out because at WOT the slides were raising too high because like i said theres almost 1/4 inch space with slides closed so when they raise it was too far and they popped out. However after doing some research and believe me i'm no expert by far i decided to check slides and they were reversed and it wasn't by me, so i corrected them and theres still a gap there the same distance, and i imagine factory needles would still pop out because they raise and lower the same distance. Basically my main concern at time was if it was normal to have a 1/4 inch gap in slides or not and what effects it would have and if it should it be corrected and if so, how?? I just really wanted to know if this was a problem because it's hard enough dialing carbs let alone something else giving you false readings!!! Thank you for responding and sorry i didn't post this info originally instead of PM it. Quote
J.J. Posted March 31, 2005 Report Posted March 31, 2005 Got your PM, it seems as if you know what you're doing, only one way to be sure if there's a problem or not... Get that bad boy up and running and take it from there, keep us updated! Quote
criswrld Posted March 31, 2005 Author Report Posted March 31, 2005 Got your PM, it seems as if you know what you're doing, only one way to be sure if there's a problem or not...Get that bad boy up and running and take it from there, keep us updated! 347617[/snapback] Actually, i question myself all the time and if i know what i'm doing?? Finally got it running today. I'm thinking about posting another thread because now i think its unrelated to slides question. Given the info and mods............. Toomey T-6 pipes, boyessen carbon fiber reeds and spacers, K&N with 8 holes drilled on top of lid, boost bottle. Basically only bolt-ons and motor is strictly stock. Given that the slides aren't the issue which hasn't been totally ruled out yet either. I put 340 mains, 30 pilot, aftermarket needle which has 6 positions, its on the 4th from blunt end. 2 screws out on air screws. 2 out on idle. Carbs in sync with no play or hesitation. No i haven't sprayed for air leaks yet either. Here's what its doing. After havng carbs apart, it started on 1st kick without choke. As it started, probably 20 seconds into it the motor started revving up without me doing anything. I started trying to dial in the idle screws and nothing, then i got about 1/2 turn in or out on the air screw can't remember. Basically with it revving iratically which bothered me because i don't want to mess anything up i resorted to pulling the choke half out and it calmed idle down to normal. I let it warm up to where the pipes were warm/hot with choke on the whole time. Once i thought it was at a good operatiing temp, i turned choke off and it revved irratically again which really Pissed me off because im tired of tearing it apart over and over again. Put choke back on which calmed it again and decided to take it down the rode which i only got the end of second and came back. It had a bog to it which didn't surprise me much since given the condition of having to have the choke on. Although i didn't rev it up when first initial trying to work things out it seemed like it was gumming up or something, hard to tell. Given all this info my guesses would be............... 1. Air leak after reading all the various other threads on bansheehq 2. Choke tube but mines installed and isn't the issue. 3. My slides aren't backwards anymore so thats not the issue either which i didn't do by the way although if given the chance i probably would have. 4. Needle setting is incorrect?? 5. Mess with air screws more?? 6. I refuse to listen to people saying that it's a crank issue, headgasket, etc.......so please don't tell me that because i may just start crying. 7. Oh yeah it does still smoke quit abit too, At first start up i didn't notice much but after messing with settings for the split second i did, I managed to make it smoke again. Also is smoke white or blueish, i have no clue because not only am i no mechanic im also colorblind. But i did check antifreeze levels and they have not diminished at all and oil level is the same. Smoke doesn't smell sweet either, it's more like going to a indoor motocross show, gotta love that smell. Anyway i know this thing is going to scream once it's dialed in better. I just need everyones professional opinions. Thanks again J.J. Quote
pimp559 Posted March 31, 2005 Report Posted March 31, 2005 Well, it sounds too rich if it starts without the choke on. Especially for how cold it is in Ohio right now. It also sounds like your throttle cable maybe kinked. Does it rev up if you turn the handle bars one way or the other. If it doesn't, that still doesn't mean the throttle cable is not kinked. You didn't mention the carb problem when trying to sell it. How far are you from Portsmouth, OH? Quote
criswrld Posted March 31, 2005 Author Report Posted March 31, 2005 Well, it sounds too rich if it starts without the choke on. Especially for how cold it is in Ohio right now. It also sounds like your throttle cable maybe kinked. Does it rev up if you turn the handle bars one way or the other. If it doesn't, that still doesn't mean the throttle cable is not kinked. You didn't mention the carb problem when trying to sell it. How far are you from Portsmouth, OH I don't believe it's kinked. When i purchased it, it had a motion pro twist throttle on it. Anyway i bought another one but new which is identical without changing cables because i thought they we're identical. The question i guess if it's possible is did original owner replace thumb throttle cable for a twist style?? I would think so but in the other hand that could contribute to slides not being fully closed possibly?? No it doesn't rev up with handle bars twisted. I didn't mention carb problem when trying to sell it because it wasn't a problem until i took it upon myself to dial it in better, it was running rich before but wasn't a major concern of mne because i was selling it. I decided i wanted to make it run better without the richness since a had some time to spend on it lately. I PM'd you already stating aprox. driving distance without knowing your address and it was around 4hrs or so but probably alittle less. Thank you Quote
Ducman Posted March 31, 2005 Report Posted March 31, 2005 At first it sounded like the choke tube was off but you said you checked that. Sounds like an air leak to me. Do you have gaskets on either side of the spacer? I personally wouldn't run a spacer unless I needed it for carb clearance (not an issue for you since you have stock carbs) or I did a before and after run on the dyno and it showed more HP or a smoother curve with the spacer. I got money on an air leak. Quote
criswrld Posted March 31, 2005 Author Report Posted March 31, 2005 At first it sounded like the choke tube was off but you said you checked that. Sounds like an air leak to me. Do you have gaskets on either side of the spacer? I personally wouldn't run a spacer unless I needed it for carb clearance (not an issue for you since you have stock carbs) or I did a before and after run on the dyno and it showed more HP or a smoother curve with the spacer. I got money on an air leak. 347710[/snapback] So you would suggest ditching the spacers?? When i spray for the air leak around intake area, given the idling problem should i try and run it with choke on or off with it revving higher?? Basically if there is a air leak the WD will cause it to start running poorly?? Let me know and i will post what i find on friday. Thanks to everyone for all the great advice!!! Quote
criswrld Posted March 31, 2005 Author Report Posted March 31, 2005 So you would suggest ditching the spacers?? When i spray for the air leak around intake area, given the idling problem should i try and run it with choke on or off with it revving higher?? Basically if there is a air leak the WD will cause it to start running poorly?? Let me know and i will post what i find on friday. Thanks to everyone for all the great advice!!! 347831[/snapback] Haven't yet torn into it but i did figure out a few things. When you start it, 1st kick without choke on it fires right up but it revs high. Pull the choke and it sits and idles. Take it down the street with choke on, it runs like crap, Put the choke in and it takes off and runs almost like it should. Pull choke all the way out and it dies. When idleing with choke off it revvs high but it's a consistent high and doesn't go up or down even when you turn the bars so therefore i would think the cable isn't binding and besides it iidles with choke on but does run like crap that way. Would this info wouldn't this rule out 1. cable binding 2. air leak which i haven't yet tested it. If i'm mistaken i thought if you pulled choke out and it runs great your motors running lean. If it runs like crap with choke out its rich?????? I'm very confused on all of this and can't figure it out. Just for recap im running 340 main, 30 pilot, and aftermarket needle which is longer than stock and has 6 clip positions and its on the forth. Please help me figure this out. Thank you to all for the great knowledge. Quote
criswrld Posted March 31, 2005 Author Report Posted March 31, 2005 Haven't yet torn into it but i did figure out a few things. When you start it, 1st kick without choke on it fires right up but it revs high. Pull the choke and it sits and idles. Take it down the street with choke on, it runs like crap, Put the choke in and it takes off and runs almost like it should. Pull choke all the way out and it dies. When idleing with choke off it revvs high but it's a consistent high and doesn't go up or down even when you turn the bars so therefore i would think the cable isn't binding and besides it iidles with choke on but does run like crap that way. Would this info wouldn't this rule out 1. cable binding 2. air leak which i haven't yet tested it. If i'm mistaken i thought if you pulled choke out and it runs great your motors running lean. If it runs like crap with choke out its rich?????? I'm very confused on all of this and can't figure it out. Just for recap im running 340 main, 30 pilot, and aftermarket needle which is longer than stock and has 6 clip positions and its on the forth. Please help me figure this out. Thank you to all for the great knowledge. 348000[/snapback] Also forgot to add while finding out all of this i tried messing with air screws from starting in .5 turn to 2 turns out and nothing making a difference. Even messed with idle screws from 1 turn and then 2 turns out and nothing either. Quote
pimp559 Posted March 31, 2005 Report Posted March 31, 2005 It may be that you got the idle screws in too far. Try looking in the carb while backing them all the way out on both sides. If this lessens the 1/4 inch gap then thats the problem. I posted on your other post about having two gaskets also. Check these couple of things out and let us know what you find. Quote
criswrld Posted April 1, 2005 Author Report Posted April 1, 2005 It may be that you got the idle screws in too far. Try looking in the carb while backing them all the way out on both sides. If this lessens the 1/4 inch gap then thats the problem. I posted on your other post about having two gaskets also. Check these couple of things out and let us know what you find. 348010[/snapback] When i last had carbs apart, i was messing with idle screws thinking that they were what was hanging up slides, If you unscrew them almost all the way out till you have only a little point showing while looking in carbs they will drop slides down but theres still a gap there half the size or more. Also i just sprayed half a can of WD around intake area that your were mentioning and all boots and had a spot light on them and noticed no bubbles or anything that would spell leak. Also as far as gaskets go from intake it goes...gasket, spacer, gasket, reed cage,rubber boot, and then carb. I sprayed this area down good and noticed nothing at all. Things i might try now are.............. 1. Unscrew idle screws till theres nothing inside of carb but a little point poking out. 2. Take everything apart again and inspect the never reeds. 3. Detach throttle cable from twist throttle and see if it drops slides down completely. This would rule out the original owner did or didn't install twist cable after replacing thumb throttle. 4. Mess with needles in carbs, but honestly im not sure which way to go with these since everything doesn't make since now on how to adjust it. 5. anything else you guys think i should look at or not. Thank you everyone!!! Quote
criswrld Posted April 2, 2005 Author Report Posted April 2, 2005 When i last had carbs apart, i was messing with idle screws thinking that they were what was hanging up slides, If you unscrew them almost all the way out till you have only a little point showing while looking in carbs they will drop slides down but theres still a gap there half the size or more. Also i just sprayed half a can of WD around intake area that your were mentioning and all boots and had a spot light on them and noticed no bubbles or anything that would spell leak. Also as far as gaskets go from intake it goes...gasket, spacer, gasket, reed cage,rubber boot, and then carb. I sprayed this area down good and noticed nothing at all. Things i might try now are.............. 1. Unscrew idle screws till theres nothing inside of carb but a little point poking out. 2. Take everything apart again and inspect the never reeds. 3. Detach throttle cable from twist throttle and see if it drops slides down completely. This would rule out the original owner did or didn't install twist cable after replacing thumb throttle. 4. Mess with needles in carbs, but honestly im not sure which way to go with these since everything doesn't make since now on how to adjust it. 5. anything else you guys think i should look at or not. Thank you everyone!!! I'm going to close this thread.............I'm not sure if slides are a problem anymore and don't think this should be addressed anymore. Basically slides still aren't fully closing still but i finally got it to idle and not run rich so given this i don't think it's much of a issue. Basically if you have read this entire thread you can see it's a trial and error issue. If your bike is doing this i suggest you read this entire thread and maybe you might just find your answer. Basically after i ruled out every possiblity of what could be the issue i determined it was something simple. Basically i bought a modded banshee which had stuff done to it already. It had the tors removed with the idle kit installed. I don't know who makes either kit but after researching everything possible i found out that all idle kits come with a screw and locknut. Mine didn't come with a locknut or maybe it did but wasn't installed for some reason?? It had two little o-rings which im not sure were part of the kit and they were in bad shape and falling off. When adjusting everything i had to go alot farther out than you typically should which also closed my slides some but not entirely. There's still a gap there but everything seems fine. I originally thought that the irratic revving was caused by the slides being open or possibly my jetting being to lean?? I didn't have a clue but there it is for you. I did come across a great website that deals with nothing but tuning banshee carbs and you should really check it out if you have any issue with your carbs. Between that and all the great guys on bansheeHQ i learned a ton of info i didn't know previously. So i want to thank everyone on this site who helped me out wth there great knowledge and everyone else you guys help out everyday with there banshee problems. You guys are awesome and keep up the great work!!!! Thank you Also check out this site i mentioned that helped me alot too if your having carb problems on your banshee........... Copy and Paste www.dfn.com/benkaren/jetfaq.html Quote
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