Recommend an engine set-up

[94BANSHEE]

Hi guys

Ill be using the following parts in addition to crank/cylinders

 

Coolhead

T5's

Vforce 3's

stock carbs for the time being

New wiseco piston kit

 

I dont want a strictly drag banshee but like some Id like the fastest I can make it with a new crank and cylinders as possible yet still drivable on the trails, dirt rods etc.

There are a lot of options out there. I dont know if I should go with a 4mil stock ported, cheetah cub, etc. Im assuming anything over 7mil would be overkill for trails and is mostly for dunes and tracks but I could be wrong. Id like to not have to trench cases either.

 

Anyway is there a big gap between a cheetah cub 4mil and stock ported 4mil and is the difference worth the extra money?

For example would a drag stock port keep up with a cheetah cub?

 

My options are open so any suggestions would be appreciated!!

 

Thanks!!!

Edited August 28, 2012 by 94BANSHEE

[Jereme6655]

To with a 4mil stock jug from Jeff at FAST......have him port your jugs while he's at it. It's either that or go with a serval top end.......the cub is more top end so it does better as a dragonet than a trail usable port

[94BANSHEE]

Ah so serval is more top end plus trails etc whereas the cheetah cub is more drag related?

[Colby]

Ah so serval is more top end plus trails etc whereas the cheetah cub is more drag related?

the port timing are different.. on a serval the power comes on at a lower RPM than the cheetah.. if your not going to be racing very much, i would send your stock cylinders to a site sponsor(Herr Juggs Racing gets my vote), have them dune port it for a 4mil, and have them cut you whatever domes you want, and I think you will be happy!

[cattledog]

here is my trail engine

 

stock cylinder aggresive trail port

 

65mm bore

milled stock head

stock stroke crank

vf3`s

plus 4 timing

stock carbs

t5 pipes

makes 60 hp,

very trailable and faster than most 450s lol

[lms1977]

if your keeping the pipes then stock cyl.. if your getting a cyl a serval would be great option and could be ported later but will like a different pipe and carbs..

I have a 10mil serval and it is awesome power everywhere from dam near idle to redline just flat out runs good..

[94BANSHEE]

So cheetah cub cylinders cant be ported or bored?

Edited August 28, 2012 by 94BANSHEE

[dozer]

So cheetah cub cylinders cant be ported or bored?

 

they can be ported, but with t5 pipes and stock carbs that would be a badly mismatched combo. the serval doesnt even like the t5 from what ive read. imo your best bet is a 4 mil crank with ported stock cylinders. that will kick the shit out of a unported stock stroke setup. as you stated if you go over 4 mil crank your cases have to be trenched. kevin herr told me if you go with a 10 mil and stock cylinders it requires alot of work and welding, its not really worth it with the amount of aftermarket cylinders availible today.

Edited August 28, 2012 by dozer

[gotta_goatsfast]

If you want to get a cheetah cub, the T5s and stock carbs are going to hold it back a bunch. If you trail it, you really won't like the powerband. I would run a 4 mil stock cyl with a dune type port (again, a drag port will not be much fun on a trail unless you're wide open constantly shifting up and down to keep it in its narrow powerband). Later on, you can swap out carbs and pipes to make your 4 mil stock cyl bike faster. After this, you'll have a good setup to swap over the cylinders for an aftermarket setup (say the 421 serval) since you'll already have the crank and the carbs/pipes will easily support the new cylinder. Like stated earlier though, I wouldn't waste money on a new cylinder just to hold back its potential with stock carbs and T5s.

[94BANSHEE]

Ok thx for the comments ill go with a 4mil stock cylinder

 

However im totally confused on the characteristics of all these different port types

Is there a chart or something?

If you had the same 4mil engi e set-up which of those ports would give you the most top-end?

Edited August 28, 2012 by 94BANSHEE

[troyzstang]

Aftermarket cylinders are awesome for the right application.

For your riding style I think a 4 mil with stock cylinders will work very well.

I've read and personally seen many stock cylinder applications hold there own against cubs & servals.

 

Call one of the site sponsors. We have a fantastic selection of sponsors that will be glad to help you make the right decision.

 

Good luck

 

 

Troy

[94BANSHEE]

Yeah ill be going through a vendor for sure

 

Just Id like to read up myself about the different characteristics

[gotta_goatsfast]

A drag port will obviously give you the most top end. Its obvious you have not ridden any banshee with porting or you'd see past the "peak horsepower" craze. You need to be honest with yourself in what you REALLY do with your machine. If you trail ride and goof around with your friends in the occasional drag race you won't like the drag port. A true top end drag port literally has nothing for power until very high up in the rpm band... then it turns on like a light switch. Before you know it either you are on your ass (if you have a stock swinger) or you manage to hold the front down in which you shift right away because the powerband is narrow. The narrow powerband also makes launching the shee harder to inexperienced riders because clutch control will be key. Let the clutch out too fast and you either spin while the other guy leaves or you fall below the powerband and lug it. If you're really gun hoe to build a top end bike, go for it.... but it won't be worth a shit on the trails. Talk to a site sponsor as they will point you to the right work (they should know the most about their product anyway).

[94BANSHEE]

Ok thx for the advice.

Yeah i never went ported before so thats why I asked.

So what would be a step down from a drag port? A dune/drag port?

[gotta_goatsfast]

A dune drag port is still going to be a high strung peaky motor. Since you aren't familiar with banshees, I'll break it down with cars...

 

We shall use a camaro as example...

 

A stock port stock cyl banshee is on par with a standard 3.8L V6 200hp camaro. Its power is fun for the inexperienced and those who were never exposed to anything faster.

 

A "bolt on" banshee (pipes, open pods, ignition, cool head, ect...) could be your 5.7L LT1 275hp. Still reliable and easily managed, it pulls a lot harder than the V6 and is a blast to ride (unless you are used to a more powerful car)

 

A "play" port stock stroke banshee (all bolt ons plus an all around type porting) is your 5.7L LS1 with intake, exhaust, and tune 350hp. Still retains driveability, a lot more responsive to the throttle and we start to flirt with traction issues with stock suspension/wheels when drag racing. Might not be the best motor for towing, but who pulls a trailer with a camaro/banshee?

 

A 4 mil play-dune port stock cyl banshee is your stroked LS1 with a hot hydro cam, heads, and previous bolt ons 425hp. Now your starting to set yourself apart from most guys around you. You might come across someone else who is "fast" but usually its only at big events that attract hot cars (or atvs).

 

A 421 serval is like your supercharged LS1 475hp. A real broad powerband with tons of usable power. Managable torque and an easy car to drive to the store but still a hot setup for light to light racing. While you won't win a drag race against a "drag built" car, you'll certainly spank a lot of folks.... and you can drive it every day.

 

A 421 cheetah cub is like your solid cam'd huge headed big block 550hp. Its power is enough to pass even the supercharged LS1, but requires a 4000 rpm stall converter and deep rear gears to keep it in its powerband. Launching hard and spinning fast.... thats all this baby does.

 

A 535 drag ported cheetah is your race fuel burning hot solid cam'd BBC 750hp. The car has the power of an inline 4 until about 6000rpm, then it builds tons of power that twists the frame and rips the front tires from the pavement.... hurry up and shift!!! Cuz the maximum rpm this engine handles comes on within seconds. Its a track car that doesn't see any other driving.

 

And lastly, the extreme... a triple cylinder drag built banshee is like your drag only camaro. Its rare, and its got more power than most guys can handle. This camaro is powered by a 3000hp 572ci big block Ford Your pass success depends on how well you feather the throttle, because this Ford powered camaro will roll white smoke off of the drag slicks at 120mph if the throttle is opened all the way during your run.