Ultra44rk Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 Hello all. My first post here, and I like this forum a lot! I picked up a nice set of used Pro-Circuit pipes and put them on today. Everything was stock before this, and had 210 main jets. I added UFO inserts (Thunder Products) into my carbs when I did the TORS delete about a month ago. Just for a baseline I am explaining all this... Now, I have done my research and was able to find a set of 290 main jets to put in when I added the pipes on today. Stock everything ran fine, and worked good. Here's where it starts getting weird.... I put the carbs back on, all together after being cleaned again and the new main jets added. Im very familiar with working on Mikuni's as I have been for years on sleds. Im just starting to get into quad riding. Anyways, everything in order in the carbs, new pipes are added. Full tank of fresh fuel, and petcock turned "ON" or "RES". I kicked and kicked, then kicked some more. Choke on. Etc, etc, etc. Fuel will come out of the overflows on the bottom of the carbs and leak down onto the ground. However, NO FUEL IS GETTING INTO THE MOTOR. I checked all the needle and seat assembly's when they were off, and none were stuck or anything goofy like that. So what magical touch needs to be done here? It makes ZERO sense to me. This bike is new to me, and I've had everything apart on it several times, new reeds, new boots, etc. So everything is 100% on it. This is the first time Ive ever had something like this happen. Any ideas? Muchos Gracias -Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volcrano Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 how are u sure the motor is getting fuel?u might be leaking so much out of the overflow its not getting any fuel.it must be leaking bad.its gotta be ur needle and seats are dirty or u got the floats too high.u shouldnt be leaking fuel.check those.can u get it to fire by putting fuel in the jug by pulling plug out?sure its getting spark?black tube connecting carbs on?i dont know whats up with those inserts ive never heard of them..carbs synched?slides in right carbs??float bowls on right carbs??welcome to the hq ohio bretheren lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultra44rk Posted August 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 how are u sure the motor is getting fuel?u might be leaking so much out of the overflow its not getting any fuel.it must be leaking bad.its gotta be ur needle and seats are dirty or u got the floats too high.u shouldnt be leaking fuel.check those.can u get it to fire by putting fuel in the jug by pulling plug out?sure its getting spark?black tube connecting carbs on?i dont know whats up with those inserts ive never heard of them..carbs synched?slides in right carbs??float bowls on right carbs??welcome to the hq ohio bretheren lol. Thats the problem, no fuel is actually going into the jug. I checked spark, tried different spark plugs too. None of the plugs I used ever got wet. The overflows were NOT leaking bad at all... Just barely. So I know the bowls had fuel in them. Yeah the bowls are on their corresponding carbs. I marked the carbs and bowls to match long ago. The Choke carb has the bowl with the tube in it. The crossover tube between the 2 carbs is on there. Carbs are synched, slides are in correct carbs (and in the right way). I haven't tried putting any fuel into the jugs yet and trying to fire it. Will do that. I guess I'll have to check the needle and seats again... But I still dont know how it would be possible that it wont pull any fuel through the carb past the needle? Maybe I have some kind of a suction? I just dont get it, and have never had this problem in the past with any other Mikuni's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volcrano Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 check ur float level.maybe they got bent pulling off bowls.might not be filling bowls?if it ran good before u put pipes on and thats the only thing u did its in the carbs obviously.carbs tightened down?any intake leaks???plugged pilot jet???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultra44rk Posted August 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 check ur float level.maybe they got bent pulling off bowls.might not be filling bowls?if it ran good before u put pipes on and thats the only thing u did its in the carbs obviously.carbs tightened down?any intake leaks???plugged pilot jet???? Thanks. I will check the float level too. Maybe its filling the bowls too much if they got bent or stuck then just evacuating the excess fuel slowly without it being able to be pulled up the needle? I just dont know now... Carbs are tightened down, I dont think I have any intake leaks.... at least I didn't before today. All the gaskets and were new when I replaced the carb boots and the reed petals. Ill throw some more carb cleaner through the ports and pilot jets again as well and report back tomorrow. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
black sunshine Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 Try rapping on the bowls with a screwdriver handle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volcrano Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 you should be able to see thru the jets,pilot and main.if u cant,they are plugged,more than likely the pilot.since its so small it happens easier than main. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry's Shee Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 How long has it been since it last ran? Have you tried a shot of start fluid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultra44rk Posted August 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 Try rapping on the bowls with a screwdriver handle Will do. Maybe something is out of whack like I said earlier. you should be able to see thru the jets,pilot and main.if u cant,they are plugged,more than likely the pilot.since its so small it happens easier than main. Yeah, when I had it all apart this morning I used carb cleaner and sprayed out all the ports including the pilot and new mains after they were installed, and everything looked kosher. How long has it been since it last ran? Have you tried a shot of start fluid? It ran this morning around the yard before pulling it into the garage. Ran like a raped ape to be exact... No, dont want to use any starting fluid in a 2 stroke. The ether can wash away the oil film on the inside of the skirts and piston walls, and when it fires you have an instant stuck ring or galled cylinder wall and loss of compression. I'll stick with putting some mixed gas down the holes or putting some gas through the carbs and into the reed cages while trying to start it. Like I said though, my biggest concern is the fact it wasn't pulling any fuel into the cylinders at all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry's Shee Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 My thought was if it sat for long time that possibly reeds were stuck shut. As to starting fluid, I'm not talking pull starting it and just spraying the shit out of it, I talking as short of shot as possible in each carb or 1-2 sec on 2:1 air cleaner. By the time you put the can down and kick it , it will be totally vaporized. Choke crossover tube? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultra44rk Posted August 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 My thought was if it sat for long time that possibly reeds were stuck shut. As to starting fluid, I'm not talking pull starting it and just spraying the shit out of it, I talking as short of shot as possible in each carb or 1-2 sec on 2:1 air cleaner. By the time you put the can down and kick it , it will be totally vaporized. Choke crossover tube? Everyone thanks for all the help and suggestions. I'm not sure exactly what was going on. I pulled everything apart this morning. Checked fuel flow from the tank, fuel was most certainly going into the carbs. And perhaps even too much at one time... That may have been a possible problem causing too much pressure in the bowls because the float levels are set so high on these Banshee's (I know, I know, they need it because of their BSFC amount)? However, I took it all apart, and put it back together. What I know that wasn't helping me was the fact my air screws were quite far out (the way I had them for stock settings). I squirted some fuel through the carbs into the reed cages, and in 2 kicks it was running. I suppose it is possible that the motor was getting a little bit of fuel before I turned the air screws in, as it would cough and drown out very quickly.... However now with everything back in place and the air screws ALL THE WAY IN, it is running fine. So, what this tells me is that these Pro-Circuit pipes scavenge THAT MUCH BETTER for fuel in all areas of the RPM range than the stock pipes, that it was so starved for fuel at the settings I had it that it would not run....? Maybe... Or something else screwy going on is also plausible. Note on the Pro-Circuit pipes: THEY ARE AWESOME. An immediate, noticeable difference is 100% apparent at all throttle ranges. Low, to Mid range hit is unreal with these pipes... and they just keep pulling... Big smile! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuprSlow50 Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 What size pilots are you running? If you have to turn the air screws all the way in, then you def. need bigger pilots. I would do a search on similar setups with Pro-Circuit pipes at your elevation and see what they are running, or just try 27.5 - 30 pilots and see how it feels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultra44rk Posted August 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2011 What size pilots are you running? If you have to turn the air screws all the way in, then you def. need bigger pilots. I would do a search on similar setups with Pro-Circuit pipes at your elevation and see what they are running, or just try 27.5 - 30 pilots and see how it feels. Well, I actually have 20 pilots in now due to the UFO's. With UFO's they say to start by cutting the pilot size in half to be close to what it needs. The last snowmobile I ran them in this was not the case, and it needed to be richer than that, and it appears as though the case is the same with the banshee also. I ordered 30 pilots that should be in on Saturday. I was riding it again quickly last night, and noticed the same lean hesitation as slower speeds as before. If the 30's are too rich then I can at least play with the air screws turning them out instead of having them all the way in like now... The search that I did prior to buying these pipes yeilded almost exactly as what has been stated here... 300 mains, 30 pilots, middle needle setting on bone stock carbs and motor. I have everything else the same other than the pilots due to the UFO's. By the way... If anyone is interested in the UFO's, I do highly reccomend them (other than issues like this with jetting, which are miniscule). They really do crispen up the entire throttle range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camatv Posted August 6, 2011 Report Share Posted August 6, 2011 put the 25's back in and try that also get some 27.5's if the air screw is all the way in to run you got big problems. but i'm sure you know that.. weird that it wouldnt start even with the choke on. sometimes they do screwey stuff did you take the TORRS off? is the lil box under the tank unpluged, removed, and ran over with a large truck? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultra44rk Posted August 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 put the 25's back in and try that also get some 27.5's if the air screw is all the way in to run you got big problems. but i'm sure you know that.. weird that it wouldnt start even with the choke on. sometimes they do screwey stuff did you take the TORRS off? is the lil box under the tank unpluged, removed, and ran over with a large truck? Still waiting on the 30 pilots I ordered to get in, probably tomorrow morning I will have them and able to install them. I know for sure I definately have something odd going on with my needle and seats, sometimes it will flood over BAD, other times a little, other times nothing. So I think a rebuild is in order for those at the least.... Yes, TORS is eliminated... Did that a few weeks ago after it was giving me all sorts of issues... The little box is unplugged, and everything is disconneted at this time. However, I have not yet removed it to be able to run it over, or set it on fire, or use it as a clay pidgeon in skeet shooting yet either... LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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