Building Trail Banshee, some newby questions too.

[So Cal Suspension]

I'm doing a top end anyways. the cranks a hot rods crank with long rods connecting arms. If I have longer connecting rods. if I mill the head, that'll shave it down right? And If I did that it would ruin my motor wouldn't it? I was thinking of getting DMC 916 exhaust. It's bored over to a 402. I'd keep it that bore size. I'd have HJR hone the cylinders, port it with the aggressive trail port, and have them install the top end there and like you said tell me proper timing, jetting, etc. I run on 91 pump fuel, up here you're lucky to find 93. I'm gunna get factory carbs with the tors removal kit. It is a stock head, Would i benefit from a cool head? or would I be fine running stock? I have about $700 for the motor work. It's $250 for the port and $300 for them to put my top end together with hone new pistons, gasket, rings, the whole set up. And i'm going to try and sell my exhaust and trade my carbs for stocks with the tors removal. Susp is works.

Also Thanks for being easy on me and if i make mistakes on parts or anything Im fairly new to the motor game, so i appreciate all the help and friendliness im getting.

He did sneak that little tidbit in there. I missed it the first time.

[Gage]

So did you build the engine or are you going off of what the previous owner told you? Point being, if you've got a big bore engine with a stock stroke crank then you're already under the gun with the type of riding that you plan on. You really need a 4mill stroker instead of the big bore, or possibly both together if you could afford to. You're looking for more torque here, not horsepower. The stock head is perfectly fine, matter of fact it would probably be recommended. And when they mill (shave) the head they rechamber it for the big bore, which is likely already done to it anyway. If it's low on compression then it will likely need to be bored, not just honed. To be honest I can't tell you what all needs to be done without seeing the motor first hand. You just need to go over things and see what all needs to be done so you can get a package deal with Herr Jugs. So with $700 we could come up with a good plan here and a really good package could easily be attained. What are the numbers on the crank? Are you sure it's not stroked too?

 

 

This is what he told me:

-Hot rods Long rod crank shaft

 

-bored to 402

 

-Wiseco Pro Lite pistons

 

-34mm Mikuni flat slide carbs

 

-Boost bottle

 

-Pro design Air box mod

 

-Dura blue rear axle

 

-ITP hole shots

 

-Adjustable timing advance

 

-In frame drag pipes with Trinity FMF aluminum silencers

 

Bought it with low compression: 80lbs in each cylinder, really good deal. Whats a four mill stroker? He claims it is a stroker. And it if has long rods wouldnt that defeat the purpose of shaving the head cause it would already be building more compression? or am i way off? Why would I need to bore it out as well? Whenever I do top ends in my 125 i just hone the cylinder and put in a piston, rings, gaskets. I'm not positive if all this motorwork was done professionally. I really haven't even had a change to tear it apart yet. The quads at my mom's basement while i'm at my dad's and they're busy with work So i haven't really had the chance to get back over there, plus my work schedule sucks...

 

But when I'm all said and done with this quad I'd like to have the chariot reeds, DMC916 exhaust, Aggressive Trail port from HJR (possible head mill)and they will also bore it out with the top end package, stock carbs with tors removal kit, getting rid of the boost bottle and replacing those boots. I'm not to worried about the crank I feel it'll be alright unless convinced otherwise. This would give me plenty of power for trails and pit riding. I still need to run 91 octane.

[Gage]

He did sneak that little tidbit in there. I missed it the first time.

 

 

lol, believe me i know how important it is. hit a whoop section once without the right suspension setup, ruined my day of riding.

[bigblockbanshee]

The conflict here is that you said in your first post that it was a big bore, but that he says it's a stroker. With the given cc of 402 it can't be both big bore and stroker. The purpose of the longer rod is to keep the piston at top dead center longer and indirectly take some of the stress off of the skirts of the piston and effectively the walls of the cylinders. This also helps broaden the power delivery to an extent. The longer rod really doesn't have anything to do with compression as you'd have to use a different piston with a smaller compression height to compensate for the longer rod. If you used, for example, a piston for a standard 110mm rod on a crank with a 115mm rod (long rod) then you'd end up sticking out of the jug by 5mm. The compression height and rod length have to match to be able to be equal or as close to equal as the deck height of the jugs when they are torqued to the cases. The head is the only piece that dictates the compression in this case. And boring out is necessary because it's pretty much just standard procedure but moreso because you can't just hone the cylinders and expect them to be new again. Even if you honed them nice and neat what you can't see is the warpage or "eggshape" effect that comes from the stress of the components with the heat involved. This is why you must bore and hone at the same time, especially if you plan on keeping this 'shee. The number one thing you don't wanna do is go through this motor and have to live with the fact that you skimped on something that could be very important or vital to the life of your engine. And by the way a 4mill stroker is exactly that, 4mm over standard stroke of 54mm, it would now be 58mm. Stroking one of these engines brings on a whole new feel to an already strong package and porting only capitalizes on it.

[bigblockbanshee]

Another thing is that it's unlikely that you have a standard crank with 115mm long rods. I'm not saying it's impossible because there's at least one on here that I know of running that setup. I'm just saying that it's alot more likely to have a stroker crank with a long rod than it is a stock stroke crank with a long rod. Entirely possible though.

[AKheathen]

i'll just throw a few peices of advise out there- the stock carbs work real well....in dry conditions. they really don't like water, so if you go through a lot, then you should probably jump to 28's or 30's, which will not have the problem. reeds more or less dictate feel of the throttle, more that level of power delivery. look for deals. i remember someone had some pipes on here that he couldn't run with his new build, but needed some drag pipes. can't remember who, but if you are into wheelin-dealin, there is plenty of that kind of dealing all the time. you carbs are worth more than stock, so keep that in mind. i would really look to trade strait across for 28's or 30's. most importantly LISTEN TO YOUR BUILDER.......it is real nice to have a builder, because he has your whole package in mind, and every detail playing off one-another start-to-finish, so just going behind his/her back really just screws you. as for displacement, "402" is just the label of putting the juggs on a stock engine. it very well could be different, like 421, etc

[Gage]

He claims to have it bored to a 402cc on stock jugs. Then he claimed to have "hot rods long rod crank shaft." He hasn't been too sharp on returning my emails and never gave me his phone number. Why wouldn't it be able to bored out with a stroker? The motor hasn't been blown up, just time for a top end rebuild and I want to port it and put in new pistons and have it all fresh. Along with the carbs and exhaust. What does a stroker crank do exactly?

[thrill-billy85]

He claims to have it bored to a 402cc on stock jugs. Then he claimed to have "hot rods long rod crank shaft." He hasn't been too sharp on returning my emails and never gave me his phone number. Why wouldn't it be able to bored out with a stroker? The motor hasn't been blown up, just time for a top end rebuild and I want to port it and put in new pistons and have it all fresh. Along with the carbs and exhaust. What does a stroker crank do exactly?

 

 

 

hey man i sent you a PM yesterday about all this too. like i said.... i have a spare set of nice stock carbs that i polished the bolws on. theyre exceptionally clean. i also have a mint set of fmf fatties powder coated black. (theyre pretty similar to the pro-circuts IMO). if you wanna trade this stuff for your pipes then great! mine was really built more for low-end, but im building a duner as we speak, and cannot use the fmf's, or stock carbs. if the pipes are in good enough shape ill even throw in a sat of v-force 2 cages. (one side needs new petals. this way youll have your exhaust, carbs, and reeds for your old in-frame drag pipes. then... sell your 34's on here. theyll go quick. but dont go and trade some a-hole straight up, your carbs for his.... the ones you have are worth way more.

[fastquad02blaster]

Also what would be a good oil/gas mix ratio 32-1, 40-1?

Yes to either.

[Gage]

hey man i sent you a PM yesterday about all this too. like i said.... i have a spare set of nice stock carbs that i polished the bolws on. theyre exceptionally clean. i also have a mint set of fmf fatties powder coated black. (theyre pretty similar to the pro-circuts IMO). if you wanna trade this stuff for your pipes then great! mine was really built more for low-end, but im building a duner as we speak, and cannot use the fmf's, or stock carbs. if the pipes are in good enough shape ill even throw in a sat of v-force 2 cages. (one side needs new petals. this way youll have your exhaust, carbs, and reeds for your old in-frame drag pipes. then... sell your 34's on here. theyll go quick. but dont go and trade some a-hole straight up, your carbs for his.... the ones you have are worth way more.

 

I dont mean to sound like a dick at all when you're reading this lol but i think i replied to your message and to me im not a big fan of the fmfs. Im just gunna go with DMC916s, i love the way they sound, my favorite hands down, theyre a low/mid pipe too with good top as well. And i'm not sure what i'm going to do with my carbs yet. If i can help someone get a good deal then i may do that, i'll get it all apart soon and be in touch with everyone who's contacted me.

[thrill-billy85]

I dont mean to sound like a dick at all when you're reading this lol but i think i replied to your message and to me im not a big fan of the fmfs. Im just gunna go with DMC916s, i love the way they sound, my favorite hands down, theyre a low/mid pipe too with good top as well. And i'm not sure what i'm going to do with my carbs yet. If i can help someone get a good deal then i may do that, i'll get it all apart soon and be in touch with everyone who's contacted me.

 

 

ha ha im not a fan of the fmfs either. ive heard the 916's are the coolest sounding pipes out there... honestly the silencer is pretty cool too. thats probably what id get too if i were building a trail/bowl bike. anyways good luck with putting everything back together!