Building Trail Banshee, some newby questions too.

[Gage]

I have a '98 Banshee with 34mm flat slide carbs, in frame drag pipes and hot rods long rod crank shaft, adjustable timing plate, and a 402 big bore. I'm doing a top end right now and am sending my cylinders out to herr jugs racing to get the aggressive trail port. I want to sell my pipes, and swap my carbs for stock. I always want to get vforece 3 reeds or chariot performance, they claim to be better than vforce, IF anybody has tested them please let me know which is better, chariots cheaper as well. Also what should i do with my timing plate, I think I have an idea of what it does I just need someone to help verify and give some advice. So just any advice on building a trail banshee would be helpful and some ideas on what you would do differently or whatever.

[sleeper06]

is it a 4mil or stock stroke long rod,my favorite set up for trail is pro-circuit pipes,145psi pump gas domes(21cc depending on porting).+4 on the timing plate,stock stroke long rod crank,795 series wisecos,30mm pwk carbs,one peice billet intake,oversized rad,billet pump,any other ? feel free,i like v-force 3s

[HotWheelsBanshee]

I have a '98 Banshee with 34mm flat slide carbs, in frame drag pipes and hot rods long rod crank shaft, adjustable timing plate, and a 402 big bore. I'm doing a top end right now and am sending my cylinders out to herr jugs racing to get the aggressive trail port. I want to sell my pipes, and swap my carbs for stock. I always want to get vforece 3 reeds or chariot performance, they claim to be better than vforce, IF anybody has tested them please let me know which is better, chariots cheaper as well. Also what should i do with my timing plate, I think I have an idea of what it does I just need someone to help verify and give some advice. So just any advice on building a trail banshee would be helpful and some ideas on what you would do differently or whatever.

 

I have a set of stock carbs I would trade for those 34MM, and what type of pipes are on your bike, and how much would you want for them.

[bigblockbanshee]

Stacman450 just sent his stuff out to Kevin at Herr Jugs and for one it was an amazing deal for the price, and especially the quality of work and turnaround time so good decision on that. Ok enough nut-swinging...

 

I see you're in Maine so it all depends on how your atmospheric conditions would affect the choice of carbs but personally if I were gonna get all of that work done AND had to switch carbs anyway I'd get, at the very least, some 28s. Stock carbs can only do so much you know. As for where to set the timing plate and other specs etc., Kevin will tell you what parts to buy to complete the certain package that you're looking for. Pipes would more than likely be Pro Circuits. On the reeds, I discussed this subject with AKheathen and he pretty much told me that the Chariot pieces were the ones to get. All of this after I'd mentioned stock cages/reeds, stock or ported cages/aftermarket reeds, Duncan Pyramids, Boyesen Rad Valves and VF3s. I didn't even know about the Chariot reeds until he showed me but those will be my next purchase I believe. We discussed alot of different scenarios but what was decided was that for the smooth power delivery and greater flow the Chariots were the reeds of choice in my situation and riding conditions. Another thing I've read about the VF3s, as well as any other carbon fiber petal, is that they aren't as durable as a fiberglass petal. I'd stick with a dual-stage petal personally. You'll get alot of different opinions on this I'm sure so just take everything with a grain of salt. But again I'd run these ideas by Kevin and see what he thinks. The one thing you don't wanna do is be mixing other people's opinions/suggestions with your machinist and end up with a mismatched combination. I don't like VF3s by the way...

Edited January 9, 2011 by bigblockbanshee

[RZBansheeMan]

Stock carbs will work well for up to 70 hp, so stockers would work fine. Often times, the stockers are not given enough credit for what they are actually capable of. There was a certain ( very credible ) member that informed me that he had made in excess of 80 hp with a set of stockers on a cub motor !!

 

Modified stock reed cages or blaster cages with CF or Boyesen reeds would work more then well enough also. Could be money saved over the unnecessary after market cages for trail riding.

 

I have a extra set of stockers in good shape setting right here on my desk if you are interested in swapping. You will however, need a TORS removal kit to go along with them. If interested just PM me.

 

Best thing to do is probably ask Kevin's advice.

 

Mike

Edited January 9, 2011 by RZBansheeMan

[Gage]

Stacman450 just sent his stuff out to Kevin at Herr Jugs and for one it was an amazing deal for the price, and especially the quality of work and turnaround time so good decision on that. Ok enough nut-swinging...

 

I see you're in Maine so it all depends on how your atmospheric conditions would affect the choice of carbs but personally if I were gonna get all of that work done AND had to switch carbs anyway I'd get, at the very least, some 28s. Stock carbs can only do so much you know. As for where to set the timing plate and other specs etc., Kevin will tell you what parts to buy to complete the certain package that you're looking for. Pipes would more than likely be Pro Circuits. On the reeds, I discussed this subject with AKheathen and he pretty much told me that the Chariot pieces were the ones to get. All of this after I'd mentioned stock cages/reeds, stock or ported cages/aftermarket reeds, Duncan Pyramids, Boyesen Rad Valves and VF3s. I didn't even know about the Chariot reeds until he showed me but those will be my next purchase I believe. We discussed alot of different scenarios but what was decided was that for the smooth power delivery and greater flow the Chariots were the reeds of choice in my situation and riding conditions. Another thing I've read about the VF3s, as well as any other carbon fiber petal, is that they aren't as durable as a fiberglass petal. I'd stick with a dual-stage petal personally. You'll get alot of different opinions on this I'm sure so just take everything with a grain of salt. But again I'd run these ideas by Kevin and see what he thinks. The one thing you don't wanna do is be mixing other people's opinions/suggestions with your machinist and end up with a mismatched combination. I don't like VF3s by the way...

 

 

 

Chariot's cheaper as well so I think that's what I'm going for. Being 16 and all I don't have a very high source of income. I mainly just wheel and deal, But I want a nice banshee for trails and pits I have a nice kx125 for MX. I race in the B class. I'm gunna do +4 on timing. Get rid of the stupid boost bottle and get the regular intake boots. I have heard of the 2:1 carb set up but I want to run the air box still since the weather changes every minute up here I could be riding in sunny/dusty trails one second and rainy/muddy ones the next. I wonder if I did a 2:1 setup if I could use a blaster air box or just rig up an aluminum one in my metals class. I really like the DMC916 pipes and the port job will make it scream. I was wondering since I have the honing equipment and everything and can do a top end if i should have herr jugs racing install the top end with brand new pistons, gaskets, hone etc for $300 on top of the $250 port. top end kits on ebay are 210 anyways so would it be worth the $90 for them to do it all there? Or should i only ship out my cylinders and put it all together at my house and save the $90 on top of however much it'd be to send my entire motor out? The pipes on it now are in frame drag pipes with FMF silencers. I haven't really had a good look at them since I just got the banshee and the headers are painted black, plus the quads at my mothers house while I'm at my dads. I think I would be ok with running stock carbs I'm not trying to get it to pull 85hp I just want to have something fun to ride in the pits around here that'll make it up the walls and be able to beat all them 4 pokes

[bigblockbanshee]

Just send Kevin the jugs, crank (if it's stock), and head so you can have him do everything and buy the piston kit from him as well so you can get a package deal on all of the machine work, bore/hone, porting, true/weld crank, mill head, everything. You didn't specify what kind of head was on it so if it's stock send it and have it shaved to the certain octane of fuel you want to run, or he'll tell you what cc domes to run if it's an interchangeable dome style head. I noticed in the other thread you didn't know if it was a stock crank or not so if it is stock send it and have it trued and welded. Don't mess with the timing except for what he tells you to set it on and leave it alone afterwards. Stay with the factory 2-carb system to keep costs down and because they work fine but get a TORS removal kit. You should probably figure out what carbs and especially what kind of pipes you're gonna be running before he ports the jugs because he'll port the exhaust to match the inlet of the pipe and match the power range of the pipe also with different porting methods/sizes. To make a long story short just spend the money up front if you have it available and have Herr Jugs do everything that they possibly can to make sure it's done correctly. Not to say that you can't do it correctly but it's nice to have the professional reputation behind the work and remember you're not just buying the work/service, you're buying a whole tuning package. He'll tell you timing, jetting, everything...

Edited January 9, 2011 by bigblockbanshee

[Gage]

Also what would be a good oil/gas mix ratio 32-1, 40-1?

[bigblockbanshee]

On a side note, since you're doing a rebuild anyway why don't you just tear it down and see what the pistons and crank/rods look like? If they're anything other than stock they should have a number stamped in the top of the piston and on the sides of the rods/crank. The numbers on the piston will tell the bore size and may tell the stroke also along with the numbers on the crank and/or rods. Number 513 is a Wiseco stock stroke number but if it has a different brand or number someone else may know what it is. There's only so many combinations you can build with certain piston number.

[So Cal Suspension]

Call me bias... but what is your suspension set up? You can have 100hp, but if you have awful suspension, you're going to be just as slow as a stock bike.

[Gage]

I'm doing a top end anyways. the cranks a hot rods crank with long rods connecting arms. If I have longer connecting rods. if I mill the head, that'll shave it down right? And If I did that it would ruin my motor wouldn't it? I was thinking of getting DMC 916 exhaust. It's bored over to a 402. I'd keep it that bore size. I'd have HJR hone the cylinders, port it with the aggressive trail port, and have them install the top end there and like you said tell me proper timing, jetting, etc. I run on 91 pump fuel, up here you're lucky to find 93. I'm gunna get factory carbs with the tors removal kit. It is a stock head, Would i benefit from a cool head? or would I be fine running stock? I have about $700 for the motor work. It's $250 for the port and $300 for them to put my top end together with hone new pistons, gasket, rings, the whole set up. And i'm going to try and sell my exhaust and trade my carbs for stocks with the tors removal. Susp is works.

 

Also Thanks for being easy on me and if i make mistakes on parts or anything Im fairly new to the motor game, so i appreciate all the help and friendliness im getting.

[bigblockbanshee]

So did you build the engine or are you going off of what the previous owner told you? Point being, if you've got a big bore engine with a stock stroke crank then you're already under the gun with the type of riding that you plan on. You really need a 4mill stroker instead of the big bore, or possibly both together if you could afford to. You're looking for more torque here, not horsepower. The stock head is perfectly fine, matter of fact it would probably be recommended. And when they mill (shave) the head they rechamber it for the big bore, which is likely already done to it anyway. If it's low on compression then it will likely need to be bored, not just honed. To be honest I can't tell you what all needs to be done without seeing the motor first hand. You just need to go over things and see what all needs to be done so you can get a package deal with Herr Jugs. So with $700 we could come up with a good plan here and a really good package could easily be attained. What are the numbers on the crank? Are you sure it's not stroked too?

[Michael Jackson]

suspension, tires, skid plates, suspension

you can have 100hp, but whats the point if you are getting rag dolled over every bump and rock on the trail

[Michael Jackson]

Call me bias... but what is your suspension set up? You can have 100hp, but if you have awful suspension, you're going to be just as slow as a stock bike.

 

thats weird, didnt even see your post till after mine, i promise i didnt steal the "100hp" thing

[bigblockbanshee]

I'm not disputing the suspension argument but what good is a hopped up suspension if the motor doesn't run? Compression is low and he has to do a top end rebuild at the very least. On top of that he's got a big bore motor which isn't optimal for trail riding but rather more high-speed riding. Personally I'd try to find some 64mm-based jugs, get rid of the big bore jugs, and try to find a 4mill stroker crank to bring the power back down into an operable range rather than being WFO all the time with a big bore setup. We're only talking $700 here and that doesn't go far when you're talking suspension IMO. The best scenario would be to do big bore AND stroker and add some suspension goodies but that's alot of fundage.