Looking for a little advice...LONG

[VB Racing]

Hi guys, new here. I have a new to me Banshee that i finally got out for a ride. I am looking to race an occasional hare scramble with this quad, but have a few concerns , and need a few suggestions.

1st about myself. I am 43 yrs old, raced MX,HS, and ice raced on a bike for several years, still do occasionally. I have owned 3 Banshee's now. I am 6'1" and weigh about 195 lbs with gear on.

My Banshee is an 03 with low hours on the stock engine with FMF SST pipes, Delta reeds, and boost bottle. The quad has stock front suspension with Ohlins shocks, and a revalved rear shock. The quad has a Lonestar adjustable axle. Nerfs are installed, and the bars have been changed to a CR high bend bar. The front wheels have 1" spacers, and I am running YFZ tires front and rear with YFZ wheels.

Here are my 1st impressions after riding this weekend on sandy single track type trails:

 

1) The quad has very heavy steering, and seems to deflect off sharp edges. The rear does not drift like my other banshees did. It pushes the front very hard, then snaps out. It is controllable, but doesn't slide well. Make sense?? It seems that the way the quad is setup now(which is the way I bought it)The front is a bit narrower than the rear, should I change that? I don't want to go very wide racing HS. The steering is VERY heavy, is there any fix to that??

 

2) The quad runs very strong up top, but hits hard, and falls off the pipe easily. It seems to be a little rich on the pilot, and possibly the needle, but not far off. Is a 2 into 1 pipe the answer for more bottom end? What about timing, it is stock now , should I change it? Any other engine mods I should consider?? The clutch is very stiff,it works well and is not notchy, it's just heavier than I am used to. Would a hydraulic clutch help with that? What about the pancake bearing? Last , but not least, the throttle is stiff also, any issues with putting a twist throttle on it? There is already an idle kit installed.

 

I plan to race the quad on the ice too, and have lowering links, and a swaybar for that, but I am looking to get the quad more woods ready with bolt ons only. I want to be able to transition the bike from woods to ice easily.

 

Thanks in advance for the help!!

 

Dave

 

 

[hercalmighty]

Ok. Steering, lose the spacers and get extended arms. Even with +2 arms your not going to be much wider then most of the stock 4-strokes out there. The spacers are pushing your wheels out past your steering pivot whick makes your steering much heavier. If you want to stay narrow go to a 4-1 front wheel. The Rear, what tires are on the rear? If you want a tire that slides more go with a more MX tire. The motor, do not get a 2-1 pipe. The FMF's should be a good pipe. Your getting may be off. Get a timing plate and set it at +4. Buy a cool head and get some smaller domes. You have to decide if you want to run pump or race gas first before you decide on dome size. Now if you want to really get into the motor build a 4mil motor with porting. The stroker motor makes a huge difference with torque and bottom end. I just build a 4mil dune port motor with CPI pipes and the thing is even better in the woods then my stocker with T6's.

[VB Racing]

Thanks for the info. So I should go with +2 arms, and that would cure the heavy steering. No problem. What about placement, should I run the +1 forward too? Should I do anything with the swingarm? What about the steering stem?

I am running stock YFZ450 tires and rims right now. They are brand new take offs. Should I go with something else?

What about gearing, I am stock right now, I was thinking about going one down in the front, any thoughts? I am going to consider putting a coolhead on , what cc domes should I go with pump gas?? Thanks for the help!! Stroker may happen over the winter.

Edited July 8, 2009 by VB Racing

[hercalmighty]

Yes go with the +1 foward. the YFZ tires should be good. The only reason to change the steering stem is if you want anti vibe or to raise your bars. For the swinger I would leave it stock. Gearing, I went up to a 15 tooth on mine and I ride really tight woods but most guys will tell you to go down. As far as the dome size goes I need to know what elevation you are at. Most likey you'll want between a 19-21cc dome. If you are going to do a stroker over the winter I would wait to do everything in one shot. You'll be running stroker domes if you do the 4mil crank.

If you want to BS about setup and stuff shoot me a PM man

[trail rider]

i'd reccomend a roundhouse swingarm to replace the stocker. much more stronger if you plan on doing alot of racing and riding with your banshee. i'd also recommend a -1 cause it gives the bike so much more traction, more than you would think if you've never tried one. it moves the rear tires a little closeer to underneath you and also helps give a tighter turning radius. only bad part though is steep hill climbs can get hairy with the added traction and shorter rear end.

 

and most will disagree, but a 2 into 1 intake and 35mm pwk works awesome for woods setups. with just one carb you dont have as much time into jetting and dont have to worry about syncronizing twin carbs, and you also get a easier thumb throttle pull. and for the thumb throttle, i'd get a 400ex throttle, you can find em all day at around 35$ on ebay in brand new condition,

Edited July 8, 2009 by trail rider

[hercalmighty]

I just suggested to stay stock since he was saying he wants to drift the rear a little more. If he shortens the rear he will gain traction and not be able to kick out the rear as well. Also if he builds up his motor and gains bottom end he wont be able to keep the front down. I went to a 4mil dune port and keep my stocker with 15/41 gearing and the front wants to come up on me alot

[VB Racing]

Thanks guys, I think I am going to get the suspension dialed 1st. I am going to scrounge up some A Arms, and get the thing turning a bit better. I will definately keep you posted on the progress. I am shooting for a hare scramble in September, and running the full D16 schedule next year. Thanks again!!

 

Dave

[vegas banshee]

+2 a arms is the best thing i did for my shee and it steers very nice..and the fmf pipes are great up top and scream pretty good.. my other banshee has em.. but if ur lookin for a good low end without rippen apart the whole motor jus put on some pro circuits or the 2 into 1 pipes are good also.. i have the procircuits on the banshee in my sig and its a trails BEAST.. my clutch is really stiff also but ever since i put on an aftermarket one its just been stiffer.. ive been told thats better anyways .. good luck :biggrin:

[Washburn]

your steerproblem is directly related to them wheel spacers and the fact that your much wider cause of the axle doesnt help. Like said get +2+1 A Arms. They are great for woods and it does not make it too wide at all. GET 4130 Chromoly a arms. That is the only way to go as far as strength. Alot of companys offer a huge warentee on bending them which is almost impossible. check my sig for what a true woods quad/XC Harescramble should be. Also get Fasst Flexx bars they run around $320.00 but that is gonna help your steering as much as a wider front end and good suspension. Trust me I wish I would have bought them earlier. Get the a arms and the Flexx bars first. Then suspension can really hit your wallet depending on how good you want to go. With suspension you get what you pay for. I highly recomend Elka second choice Custom Axis. Works shocks are always stiff and they arent a huge improvement. though some will argue that, just take my word. I race and I race and practice mostly, with pro and highly expirenced riders. GT Thunder revalves and resprings 450 shocks better than any set of works. Thats gotta say something rite there.

 

For the low/mid power again like stated get a Noss Head with 20cc domes and get a billit timing plate and set it at +4 and for faster acceleration get some aftermarket reed I really like my V Force 3s that will pick up from low to top alllllllllll the way through the pipe with no dead spots and you can get away with pump gas more than likely but talk to David Noss about that he will answer all of your questions and then some hes a great guy and very knowledgeable. WWW.NOSSMACHINE.COM (Hes also a site sponcer and he has the best coolheads in the biz). I like PT Mids and Pro Circuts for a trail pipe though FMFs are pretty good too. I love my trinity 2:1 carb setup with a single 35 PWK I dident get it just for ease of jetting I got it cause the setup works wonders in the tight trails. 400ex throttle setup does really help so I hear. I know Ill be getting one soon here.

 

Think about what you wanna do and come back and let us know. there are PMs here too anybody in this thread will answer any questions in the open fourm, best way, or via PM.

[Meat]

I dunno about the +2 A-arm recommendation for hare scrambles\woods racing. You want a narrow front end, not a wider one. Your front end, from edge to edge of the tires should be around 47 inches, 46 would be better. 4:1 offset front rims help with bump steer issues and Razr 2 front tires, size 21x7x10 are by far the most used front XC tire and size. A steering damper is a must have for all racing. A +1 or 2 anti-vibe steering stem is nice to have and a set of Flexx handlebars would be ideal. Handgaurds too. Narrow front and rear for xc racing. A -1 or -2 swingarm will allow the quad to steer better because it shortens the wheelbase and allows the front end to come up easier to get over obstacles. xc quads are have a narrow stance, get those 4:1 offset front rims with a nice set of Razr2 tires on em and measure the front end's overall width. You want to be around 46 to 47 inches wide. Any wider than 48 inches and your giving the advantage to the guys your racing against.

[VB Racing]

Thanks for the advice guys. I have installed a twist throttle, hydraulic clutch, adjustable timing plate, with timing at +4 right now. Rules state the quad cannot exceed 50 inches, so I am up in the air as far as +2 arms or not. I am going to remove the wheel spacers this week, and get the quad out this weekend again. I am also going to narrow up the rear axle. I have YFZ wheels on it now , anybody have any idea what the offset is on these, any idea on how to measure the offset??

I have Ohlins shocks on the quad now that were new when I bought the quad, so they have no tome on them. I was considering sending out the rear shock for revalving, any thoughts on that??

Thanks again for all the help, and I will keep you all posted on the progress.

 

Dave

[VB Racing]

I dunno about the +2 A-arm recommendation for hare scrambles\woods racing. You want a narrow front end, not a wider one. Your front end, from edge to edge of the tires should be around 47 inches, 46 would be better. 4:1 offset front rims help with bump steer issues and Razr 2 front tires, size 21x7x10 are by far the most used front XC tire and size. A steering damper is a must have for all racing. A +1 or 2 anti-vibe steering stem is nice to have and a set of Flexx handlebars would be ideal. Handgaurds too. Narrow front and rear for xc racing. A -1 or -2 swingarm will allow the quad to steer better because it shortens the wheelbase and allows the front end to come up easier to get over obstacles. xc quads are have a narrow stance, get those 4:1 offset front rims with a nice set of Razr2 tires on em and measure the front end's overall width. You want to be around 46 to 47 inches wide. Any wider than 48 inches and your giving the advantage to the guys your racing against.

 

 

Alot of food for thought here, thanks!! I was wondering about tire sizes. I am real worried about overall width, so I may take your advice on the arms here. If I can't get the steering any lighter I don't know if I really want a steering damper.Thanks again!!

 

Dave

[hercalmighty]

Yeah getting the rear revalved is a good idea. Right now with my +2 arms and standard 2/3 wheels Im at 49 inches to give you a good idea. Most of the stock 4strokes right now are at about 48-50 inches

[Meat]

You want to 50 inches for motocross racing, you want to be around 46 for XC or hare scramble racing. You mentioned Ice racing and you should have the wider stance for ice racing.

 

Stock widths

Honda 450R = 46.3

CanAm Ds450 =46.0

Kawi KXF450 = 46.0

KTM 450XC = 45.2

Polaris Outlaw 450 = 47

Yamaha YFZ450 = 46.1

Suzuki LTR450 = 49 (its a motocross quad)

 

The XC 450 guys buy + .5 (half inch on each side, total +1 inches) and then use the 4:1 offset rims to "offset" that width gain the longer front A-arms give.

 

MX = wide

XC = narrow.

[Washburn]

You want to 50 inches for motocross racing, you want to be around 46 for XC or hare scramble racing. You mentioned Ice racing and you should have the wider stance for ice racing.

 

Stock widths

Honda 450R = 46.3

CanAm Ds450 =46.0

Kawi KXF450 = 46.0

KTM 450XC = 45.2

Polaris Outlaw 450 = 47

Yamaha YFZ450 = 46.1

Suzuki LTR450 = 49 (its a motocross quad)

 

The XC 450 guys buy + .5 (half inch on each side, total +1 inches) and then use the 4:1 offset rims to "offset" that width gain the longer front A-arms give.

 

MX = wide

XC = narrow.

 

IDK, Im at 48 and most quads on the AWRCS circut are pretty damn close to exactly that. No I never raced in a sacintoind race but Ive woods raced and Ive Never triped over my +2+1, I wouldnt of had them any shorter. Perfection with the suspension.