Hard starting Shee

[Midway USA]

Recently got my secondary Banshee up and running. Jetted it up for cooler winter riding and it is hard to start. Had to ether it a little to get it running today. It is a 1995 engine. Standard bore w/fresh hone and new rings, no TORS, stock air box with foam filter, stock exhaust and silencers with new packing. Jets are 220 main, 27.5 pilot and air screws out 1/2 turn. Spark is good. I can barely push the starter crank by hand and get a great spark. Bosch Platinum 4016 plugs. Once it warms up it starts first time every time and runs great.

 

My other Shee was never hard starting like this. It had 270 mains, 25 pilot, air screw 1 1/2 turns, FMF Fatty with Power COre II silencers, K&N air filter, .020 overbore, and no TORS.

 

Any suggestions?

[Paddleboy]

what is compression? if it is 100 psi-ish it will be harder to start then 135psi.

[RUDEDAWG]

Recently got my secondary Banshee up and running. Jetted it up for cooler winter riding and it is hard to start. Had to ether it a little to get it running today. It is a 1995 engine. Standard bore w/fresh hone and new rings, no TORS, stock air box with foam filter, stock exhaust and silencers with new packing. Jets are 220 main, 27.5 pilot and air screws out 1/2 turn. Spark is good. I can barely push the starter crank by hand and get a great spark. Bosch Platinum 4016 plugs. Once it warms up it starts first time every time and runs great.

 

My other Shee was never hard starting like this. It had 270 mains, 25 pilot, air screw 1 1/2 turns, FMF Fatty with Power COre II silencers, K&N air filter, .020 overbore, and no TORS.

 

Any suggestions?

 

 

sounds like your mains are lean, I run 270-280 mains and I am at 4800', airscrews are 1.5 turns out, starts first kick every time and runs strong, real good idea to check your compression also. There was an thread on here a while back where everyone lists their setups, ie jetting, pipes, filter, timing, elevation, etc. good luck man.

[Midway USA]

what is compression? if it is 100 psi-ish it will be harder to start then 135psi.

I never checked the compression but probably will tomorrow. It has been sitting for about a week and before that it would start right up. I can tell you that since I honed it and put the rings in it has not been ridden much so the rings may not be seated in yet. It is supposed to be 57 here tomorrow so I plan to go ride for a while. I will stop by the shop on the way home and check compression.

 

I am not an expert tuner but I do know that 270-280 with stock air box and exhaust would be too rich. The Banshee repair manual shows 220 to be the correct jetting for colder temps. I don't run with the air box lid off and never will. Also will never cut holes in it. May eventually get a K&N filter with Pro Flo adapter but that is all I plan to do to modify the air flow. Snorkel is gone, though. I don't drag race and don't need lots of power. Just want to ride and not burn it up.

 

DOn't know if it matters but the needle clip is in the middle and that is where the manual and local dealer told me to run it. One suggestion was to go one notch richer and would be easier than changing jets.

[Midway USA]

what is compression? if it is 100 psi-ish it will be harder to start then 135psi.

 

Have about 5 hours ride/run time on the engine since honing the cylinders and replacing the damaged crank seal. Would have ridden longer but poked a hole in a tire so had to head to town to get it patched. Ran a compression check and it has 125PSI both cylinders. When I pulled the plugs the one on the rh side was damaged and the porcelain center literally spun in the steel shell. You could see where it had been leaking cylinder pressure around the porcelain. That cylinder was smoking a little more but the engine didn't seem down on power at all. I put new plugs in and so far it seems to start better. Not many warm days coming so probably won't get to ride for a while again. Guess we will see if the hard start issue is gone.

[shee4speed]

I dont think there is any reason to change the pilot jets. Try stock.

[BlasterKX]

im not to sure but my buddy had the same prob with his 89 yz80. ended up being to cold of plugs. just a suggestion though. good luck

[killshee]

sound like compression but u said u just did the top end.... i had this problem with mine (it was low compression) but idk did it start up good b4 u changed the jets?

[Midway USA]

sound like compression but u said u just did the top end.... i had this problem with mine (it was low compression) but idk did it start up good b4 u changed the jets?

 

Yes it was hard starting before changing jets but not as bad as now. It was definitely lean even when warmed up. I think I made a mistake going to the 27.5 pilots and may change them back. My 98 had 25's with better intake and exhaust and was ok. I think the bad plug may have been a big contributor, though.

 

Thanks for all the input. I'll change the pilots today and see how it does.

Edited December 14, 2008 by Midway USA

[Paddleboy]

yea ur compression is good. i bet the plug issue was a big cause. but i made the mistake of upping my pilots and it ran like shit so i'm back to stock.

[Midway USA]

yea ur compression is good. i bet the plug issue was a big cause. but i made the mistake of upping my pilots and it ran like shit so i'm back to stock.

 

I didn't change em back yet. Too cold and I didn't feel like firing up the heater in the shop. I should have known not to change them since the 98 still had 25's with 270 mains with FMF pipes and K&N filter. It ran pretty decent and air screws were at 1 1/2 turns out. Maybe when I get the 98 back together I'll put the 27.5's in with my new 290's and try it there.

 

Supposed to be finalizing on my mortgage refi so hoping to have the funds to get both Shee's up to par after Christmas. I miss the sound of the FMF's on the 98. The stock exhaust is just too quiet. I do have to say the stock pipes seem to work better for trail riding and low end torque, though.

 

I'll post back when I get the pilots changed and some riding time in.

Edited December 14, 2008 by Midway USA

[Midway USA]

yea ur compression is good. i bet the plug issue was a big cause. but i made the mistake of upping my pilots and it ran like shit so i'm back to stock.

 

Ok Changed the pilots back and checked the needle setting. It was second notch from the top which would be leaner, correct? Also noticed something in the slide that I question. There is a hole to one side under the needle retainer. When you put the needle retainer back in is this hole supposed to be covered by the retainer or does it matter? On one it was and the other it wasn't.

 

Got it all back together with the needle clip in the center notch and with both holes covered by needle retainer. Sync'ed the carbs and gave it a try. Seemed to start much better so we will see. It is very cold here so there won't be any riding for a while.

 

So I am now at 220 main, center clip on the needle, 25 pilot, 1 1/2 turns on air screw, new plugs, 125 psi compression. It would seem I can't do much more than that for now.

 

Suggestions, comments?

[Midway USA]

All is well with it now. I pull the choke all the way, turn the kill switch to off, kick it a couple times, turn the kill switch on and it usually fires by the second kick. Rode in the snow the other night but the tires are shot and all it did was spin. Now to decide if I want to keep it or sell it.

 

Got my carb kits for the 98. Dropped the seat off at the upholstry shop, and will order my crank kit on Monday. The goal now is to get the 98 up and going. Got an extra plate kevlar clutch on E-bay for $47 shipped. Are these clutches good?

 

Thanks for the input and help in solving my starting problem!!