WINDYCITYJOHN400

And you had to quote the whole thing...... You KNOW Tyler deletes any thing I say that's more than 3 sentences long. Now your just tweaking him.

Sounds like your experience is matching my playbook. Glad someone with a similar set-up is seeing the same results I did. Now I just have to talk you into dynoing that bike so we can get a baseline of what you motor is making power wise.

Ok, you are being polite and I will too. I didn't say 400's are junk....I said MY 400's were junk. As you read, I didn't do any repair work to the 400's from how Trinity shipped them. AS SHIPPED from Trinity...it was junk. Now once I got into the 472-492 motors...I wasn't going to keep buying pistons every time the motor detonated, so that's when I started having top people do custom domes and work on porting the motor. I did have issues that never got worked out with the 400 motor. But the 4 mill motors got more R+D time than anyone in their right mind would ever do. (Not having to pay for dyno time has made it possible for me to test the snot out of just about every thing you would want to try.) Now I'm going to throw this out there and I don't want anyone to take it the wrong way, so please listen to the point I'm trying to make. (I'm speaking in general...not directing anything at anyone.) My friend has a 65HP bike that RIPS. My wife has a 63HP bike that RIPS. Both those bikes consistently beat a very nice looking high dollar 421 cub. I say that because a bike can "Run Great" or "Rip" or "Break the hearts of bigger motors" and leave the owner VERY HAPPY with the bike. Yet it can be down on power from what others might think it should make. For instance, the guy with the 421 cub thinks his jetting is mint and thinks the bike rips. He also thinks he's making 88-90 HP But we know otherwise. This would be a big reason why he's getting beat by smaller motors. The overall point I'm trying to make here is that I've found many people who come in with Banshees that are strong running bikes and after the first couple of passes on the dyno, find the numbers are 20HP lower than they had convinced themselves that they had. Now I'll admit that the simple number a dyno shows has ZERO value in the seat of the pants. (If a bike is scary fast and making 55HP...finding out the number changes nothing.) But if you KNOW other motors like yours are making 70HP...than you have learned you have room to improve. Satisfaction with your bikes power is a personal thing. For the money and knowledge spent on my Cheetah motors... I found it was relatively easy for people with OTHER cylinders to make the power levels that I was struggling to make. My statements are not being made to lower your level of satisfaction with your motor. If your bike runs great then I'm glad you have found the level of satisfaction that your looking for. I found the Cheetah motor design required all the best work from the best people to get it to perform to the same power levels of smaller motors. (Highly built 492 = average builders built 421 cub.) This lowered my satisfaction rate because I could have had a lot more power with a lot less work and cheaper rebuilds had I never gone with the cheetah motor. I choose not to debate power valve theory because in the right situations, they can be made to work well. (As I have stated) But I found in both dyno testing and seat of the pants riding, that the block-off plates far out performed using the power valves. (Yes I spent days messing with cutting P.V. springs and tuning them.) I find the Serval power results to be a much better path to the type of power you would want from the P.V. motors. A 10 mill Serval can be bought in a kit from your average back yard builder/internet/site sponsor and will make better power, and cheaper than a full custom 4 mill P.V.. I've put my money where my mouth is because I've sold my 492 Cheeath and dropped to a 465 Cub. Now I've just explained how I feel about the Cheetah motors....(And in doing so in this latest response, I have voiced more "Opinion" than in the previous posts.) But my opinion is entirely based on the information that I gathered from years of trial and error as well as dyno testing and tuning. Trust me when I say....you don't drop the coin I have, for as long as I have...If your not totally committed to being a Cheetah owning nut swinger. But unfortunately I was dissatisfied with the design after the massive effort that went into "finding that motors potential." My statements are in NO WAY meant to bash anyone's bike or decisions. I have only shared info to better inform others of the things I have learned. (Nickisgod) has a fresh 485 P.V. motor and is driving from NY out to meet with me and dyno his bike on our dyno, then spend the weekend duning at Silver Lake Michigan with me. He was given all the free info I could to help him find satisfaction from his motor. I'm sure he'll be posting dyno numbers at some point for all of you to look at. (His latest 485 is a Trinity/F.A.S.T motor.) See......now I just can't find a way to tactfully explain the how's and why's of things I say without it taking up a lot of space. I'm trying to avoid offending anyone while still passing on free info.

My ported Cheetah's liked the Shearer pipes over the CPI's by a total of 14HP! But your motor is a 535 and I know more than a few strong running 535's that run the BB CPI's. I think the Shearer BB is going to be your best bet.....But I would check with the builder because some guys like to build the motor to fit the pipes they prefer.

Well, I'll say that all the motor configurations ran better overall with the block-off plates installed. (I know you have had a few Twister motors, but those power valves are a little better.) But as far as the power valve theory goes....I can only Echo the statements of Tim at Titan...... "Power valves don't Boost power, they manage it by softening the hit as the motor comes on the pipe. They were developed to make it possible for a 2-stroke motorcycle to come out of the corner WITHOUT blowing off the tires." Unfortunately many believe that the power valves provide more low end torque. And to some extent that is true....if the motor has a massive exhaust port the power valve will help the motor by BLOCKING that big port till the motor is making so much power that it can move the power valve blade out of the way. But it comes at the expense of some mid and upper power. I dune mine so the P.V's were a total waste. Once I put the block-offs in, the bike came alive. But if your trying to ride woods/trails/MX you might find they help. (But I would argue that if your running a motor like that in that kind of ride style....you might have picked the wrong cylinder.) The 472 with the full porting/block-offs (on 110 race gas) made 81HP with CPI BB's and 95HP with both Shearer SB's and BB's. (I think we can all do that with a mail order 421 cub kit) Not all that impressive for a motor with the massive amount of talent that was visited on it. The 400 set-ups were JUNK! (Trinity kit. All tech help from Jaymes. ) I was loosing to a 350 bike in our group with a single carb and FMF fatty's (We have a dyno now and tested his bike and he is making 65HP.) I never got a chance to dyno the 400, but it had their domes, detonated no matter what you had for jets, ate O-rings, had Trinity pipes and was just JUNK!) The 472 P.V. motor was a basic kit and had all the same issues the 400's had. (That's why I preach about getting custom cut domes. Tim at Titan knew what to do for domes.) That motor didn't detonate any more...but still was a limp noodle as far as power. So we did the full port job on it and it was very nice. Still not as strong as you would have figured for a 472cc motor....but fun. It got even better when I pulled the power valves. We decked the bottom of cylinders when I went to 492 (moving away from the full drag porting and chasing the Serval craze) it gained low end torque and still pulled on the top end. 20 more cc's of fun! Ok, take a screen shot of this because it is a little long and is filled with my real world info based on TONS of dyno testing, opinions gathered from some of the top builders Tim Bond/Nate McCoy, as well as my own Butt dyno feedback. So I've set myself up to be called an idiot and have this entire post deleted. Sorry....I tried to keep it short. By Monday the entire thing will be gone.

Many do. Some have even tested it and on the right motor the peak power is a little higher. But in general, buying v-3's isn't a bad move or a waste of money. I know plenty of "Riders" not "Racers" who insist they have better throttle response than a typical modded stock based reed set-up..

Strong words from someone who's entire signature is filled with nothing but Gay sex quotes. I've never met anyone so fixated on a penis that isn't his.

Well with the right builder you can get close. (125ish with the right builder and a perfect dyno tune.) Plus the 10 mill Cheetahs work a lot better than the 4 mills. But your piston costs are really high. If your thinking your going to just slap this thing back together, you might want to re-think that. The Cheetahs need a dome that is dialed in for the squish, so the key to power in these motors is the overall combo. You might be best to send it back to the original builder an have them get it set back up for you. That way you don't run into a dome to piston clearance issue. I don't want to come down too hard on the motor because Brad has done some nice motors, so I'm assuming this is no Trinity build. LOL. But the cubs are very strong per CC vs. most of the other cylinder designs out there. From my experience with the 4 mill cheetahs...a fully built 485-492 Cheetah makes about the same power as a built 421 cub. If you don't want to send it to Brad....Call Cameron at Redline Racing (He just built my 10 mill cub) or Tim at Titan Racing (Helped me fix my 472 cheetah).

If we all waited for the next big thing to come out...we would never have a finished machine to ride. Get some V-force 3's and call it good. Besides, if they ever do come out with v-Force 4's........ we'll have to listen to gobs of people debate that the 3's are better than the 4's. (There are plenty who still claim the 2's are better than the 3's .....and OLD rocket pipes were better than new ones...or Toomey T-3's are the best etc,etc,etc.)

Cut your losses. The pistons are VERY expensive and your not going to hit 130+ with that motor. Try a big cub or small DM. Even fully ported the Cheetah doesn't hit the HP per cc numbers that other motors will.

It's about a mile from the campsite! (You can hear the big dogs run from camp.) You'll have a blast. I stumbled on some TV coverage from there today. Lucas oils "On the edge" was running a Fast 8 shootout of Nitro Altereds at the track. Cool to see that track featured. My daughter was like "Hey....why do I know that place?.....Wait.....we've been there!" Ron i'll call you tomorrow about the trip and the track. (I was going to call now, but time flew by and your an hour ahead of me so I won't blast your phone at 10:00pm)

I'm happy to be now sporting a new Redline 10 mill Cub. Now I have a new motor to thrash on the dyno for the rest of the year.

If done right your well built P.V. Cheetah will have lower overall power than a cub. Not just peak. Some of us have spent YEARS doing a WIDE VARIETY of porting, timing. compression, dome, pipe research to figure out that the Cheetah dose NOT have a lot of hidden potential. (BigRed you have a chance as power with your 535 10 mill) But if we're talking about a 421 P.V vs a 421 cub.......The 421 P.V. motor will be hard pressed to make 4 mill stock cylinder numbers. I've owned - 400 Cheetah with block-off plates 400 Cheetah with Power Valves 472 Cheetah with Power Valves 472 Cheetah with block-off plates 492 Cheetah with block-of plates 6 different sets of domes from 3 different builders Trinity, CPI and Shearer pipes and the bike and motors have had more dyno time that a NASCAR restrictor plate motor. (I've got access to a dyno, I've got a key to the place, I pay nothing for dyno time....I'm not talking out my ass. I've burnt many a jug of fuel to learn what I know first hand. Was that short enough for you Tyler?

We should get Tim working on the elections..................That guy can fix everything!

I was going to say....how can you spend SO MUCH on those wheels and bolt them to a bike with stock shocks? But it didn't take long for you to fix that! Looks like your on the right track now. The more stock steel hits the floor, the better! Glad to see the stock bumper in the pile of scrap. It's looking GOOD. Custom seat cover will really set it off.

There is a race that weekend at the West Michigan Sand Dragway so we can go Friday 5-9 and make test and tune passes on the track, then thrash the bikes on the dunes the rest of the weekend.

V-force 3 reeds - Till they release the V-4's

Yes....F3's standard length. Perfect! I've also tried the shortys.....I figured I would like them more due to my former BMX days....but I ended up liking the standards best. Great time to get a fresh clutch cable too. (You don't want to be 1/2 way into a ride and have a cable break.....just throwing that out there.)

Rule #1 - NEVER talk to the police. Rule #2 - Never alert them to a situation where you could possibly be seen as a bad guy. Rule #3 - Don't provide them with the ability to take anything from you. A title without a VIN is worthless....a VIN without a title is worthless....a bill of sale is worthless. (Bill of sale doesn't prove OWNERSHIP, it only proves PAYMENT.) So a bill of sale is just perfect legal proof that you are guilty of buying stolen goods.

No......you'll just have to break out the pocket knife and remove that powder coat when the cops pin your ears back about it. What you did is not illegal. (No worse than it being covered in mud.) But if the numbers are GONE on a permeant level.....so will your clean record.

That won't stop the cops from selling your quad a pubic auction after they take it from you. They give you paper work proving you got it from them.......but I wouldn't put it past them to impound it again so they can re-sell it. ( Hooper over on PS had quite to go round over a situation like that.)

Yeah, I agree. I think I heard somebody say something like this before................now if I could only find that post.............I'm sure Harry will come on and offer some sage advise. Long story short - Get new custom cut domes for that combo. I'd LOVE to see what it dyno's at when Jim get's done with it.

Trying to keep them short now for all you ADD types. I just want to know what school loads personal cars up for a field trip? They couldn't plan to use a bus?

Glad you found the answer! Yes impellers can be an issue. I always switch to the billet impeller and a fresh drive gear. (Muller has a metal gear now and it's awesome.) You never have to worry about it breaking or stripping out again. So before you go ripping on that new set-up.....do some research on jetting and get to a point where you understand what to look for as far as plug color. On your first few rides, have a plug wrench handy and check it often. Don't assume that now that the motor is fresh, the old jetting was correct for it in the first place. CONFIRM ON YOUR OWN that the jetting is good so that you don't burn down the new top end. Many times the previous owner never really found a place to rip that bike wide open in 6th for a long enough time for a lean jetting issue to present itself. Plus a huge number of machines are running around set-up lean in the mid and owners don't even know it. (If you have a cooling issue....if the impeller is working, then you really have a jetting issue because these bikes can stay cool if air is moving into the radiator and the motor is jetted correctly.) Other than that....keep reading on here to strengthen your overall understanding of the issues that come with Banshee ownership and enjoy the thrill of a fresh top end in a Banshee. Glad to hear the damage wasn't terminal and your up and running again.

Well, Curt (Green/White bike) doesn't understand that people talk. So he tells people he is no more than a bike behind everyone. LOL. He also tells people he's got a 4 mill when it's a 10. Not because he want's to surprise people.....but because he's so slow he's trying to lower your expectations. He talks trash and B.S.....tells joee2002 that he's only a bike behind him. Come on...we've seen Joe run. Are we really believing that Curt's green bike is that fast? Tells joe that he hasn't raced Jeremy...but Lindsay is only 1 1/2 bikes ahead of him. Right. Yeah, then he tells people he's right with you when your pulling 3 gear wheelies and fighting to keep from blowing over backwards, while he's not even lifting a tire on the launch. Mark doesn't talk smack...he just won't line up with any of the strong bikes. You look at all the duneTV footage and it's all Curt and Mark vs. each other. We got tired of their poser status 2 years ago.....Everything was fine till they built bikes that LOOK like they should be fast. Now they spend season after season trying to save face. Last August I had my bike out there with them and they kept their drag bikes in the beds of the trucks ALL DAY! (My dune/dragger with full suspension beats their full drag bikes) At about 4:30 I was going so fast I popped a front tire off the bead and had to go swap front rims/tires. They dropped the drag bikes in the sand....made 4 passes for the DuneTV cameras, then put them back in the bed and had the nerve to ask where I was hiding because they wanted to race. LOL. Curt and Mark STILL haven't told anyone about the crash. But since they don't visit ANY of the sites....they don't know when pictures and video hit the internet. They also don't know that most of the people who ride at places talk all year on the sites. So they think as long as they say Hi to Jeremy....they are in his ride group. I'm just hoping someone has some shots of the posing/loosing/crashing on video.................