dajogejr Posted August 1, 2008 Report Posted August 1, 2008 And betting on 100 key shearing for every timing plate failure is a stupid bet, fucking timing plates don't fail. So...in other words, it would be a safe bet... I was giving the key the benefit of the doubt...surely someone has had a plate fail.... Quote
Meat Posted August 1, 2008 Report Posted August 1, 2008 So...in other words, it would be a safe bet...I was giving the key the benefit of the doubt...surely someone has had a plate fail.... ya..... obviously. Key's are shearing, plates are not breaking. And Im not fully sold on Okbeasts explaination on why they are shearing. Every key is not perfect, but they're not handmade either, so the odds should be heavily on the good side. If the keys are manufactured wrong, there should be a buncha threads like the poorly made Ricky Stator threads. These keys are cut from stock, on a machine, and we've been working with metals for hundreds of years, so altho there is a small chance for inperfections in the metals, the chances have got to be slim. Manufacturing problems have got to be the answer tho, unless the key's are improperly installed. And I think that is the case, I think alot of em are installed wrong, people tapping them into the crank with a hammer, installing them backwards and then having to pry em out, flywheels banging into the keys when you try to line em up, loose flywheel nut, or like I mentioned before.... a sudden abrupt stop in the RPM's. I would say that the guys installing them wrong could be half the troubles and the other half being manufactured wrongly. I don't know the quality control in making these things, but it would seem to be a pretty easy proceedure to make one and the odd's of having bad metal stock have got to be low. P.S. sweetie don't you think the pot is calling the kettle black when you bust on dave for being an arrogant ahole? (note: non nut-swinging post, thanks meat) Not sure what your trying to say here..... Quote
flotek Posted August 1, 2008 Report Posted August 1, 2008 (edited) the mating slots have some clearance for the key to be inserted this would allow for play .the enertia rotational mass of the flywheel weight puts pressure against the edge of the key in its groove and i n theory yes it should be up flush tight on the crank taper but it can be jarred slightly out of location during startups or at high rpms and really it only takes a small movemnt maybe only .010 -.020 to shear a soft offset .200 thick key,the slots have sharp edges in this recessed area on the hweel and the crank and the taper surfaces are hardened .most people have never checked it out but the( lead dripping)keys are not eve n actually a true 4 degrees .....more like 2.5 -3 degrees! ,i have seen one ricky stator plate fail and crack and i have seen many many many keys fail ,i wouldnt use a key when for like 12 more bucks you can do it the right way and get the accurate adjustable advancment at the turn of a wrist and done reliably Edited August 1, 2008 by flotek Quote
Meat Posted August 1, 2008 Report Posted August 1, 2008 good explaination Flo-tekker. So if the key is not a perfect fit, it will shear. But if its installed tight, it should stay tight, or can play develop ? What are the keys made from ? Is there's a better key out there ? Mine was bought from Vito's.... that was about 6 years ago, and I had about 4 years on it. And my point about "doing it right" is... for most guys, the average Banshee guy, who's not out racing, who doesnt have a $2000 motor, a cheap key, installed correctly should get er done. Once I started building my motor, I kept the key for another two years, but now I use a Trinity plate. But for most folk, especially the guys who have allready bought one and ask how to install it .... the key should work for em. Quote
flotek Posted August 1, 2008 Report Posted August 1, 2008 (edited) the oem stock key is fairly tough soild one piece nub the problem is the offset way the aftermarket keys are designed.. they snap/shear at the corner inner radius of the offset .even if its tight with the big nut on it it can still slightly shift out of location .there will never be a perfect side ot side fit for the key as the mateing slots have width clearacne for alignment yes some do hold up and wont move casuing a problem ,i have had terrible luck with them i nthe past and seen others have similar troubles call up vitos and tel lthem it sheared apart and they eagerly offer a new one sent out up to three times this alone tells me they know theres problems with them shearing Edited August 1, 2008 by flotek Quote
Meat Posted August 1, 2008 Report Posted August 1, 2008 Im must be one of the lucky SOB's. Damn, I never have any luck . Maybe... I should go buy a lottery ticket :biggrin: Whats the usual senario when they shear off ?? Quote
pabansheematt Posted August 2, 2008 Report Posted August 2, 2008 (edited) Who called you credible ? And count me in on one of the guys who ran a +4 degree key for years and never had a single problem. And my banshee has alot of miles on it, Im not a drag racer who's running alot of Horsepower, but a trail rider and I have enough mods to give me around 50hp. For cryin out loud the guy asked how to install a degree key and dagagsygy tells him to sell it. Your a butthole dagogygy. Lose the "experience and credible" ego and and try to be a little more humble and help the guy out or don't say nothing at all. Back when the bansheezone was up, I had a page full of pictures of a degree key install, but the website has been offline for awhile, but there's this "web archive" that has portions of the Bansheezone still available. There's no more pictures, but here's my Degree Key install page http://web.archive.org/web/20031017050943/...KeyInstallation In the words of Hulk Hogan Amen brother! set em straight Meat. Edited August 2, 2008 by pabansheematt Quote
pabansheematt Posted August 2, 2008 Report Posted August 2, 2008 Why would a degree key shear ? What would cause it to shear ?? All the key does is index the flywheel to the crankshaft, if everything is installed correctly and the motor is running fine, I see no reason why a key would shear. The key fits in two grooves, one in the crank, one in the flywheel, the flywheel is torqued on tight with a big ol' nut, the crank and the flywheel are now indexed together, the taper on the crankshaft, the keyway and the big nut keep the flywheel from moving on the shaft. Are the key's just not produced with good quality. Why do some people run em for years while others can't keep em at all ??I guess if you install correctly ( proper torque ) you have no problems. after all 97 HP and still no probs. I think I'll keep the key in just to see how long it lasts. Quote
Meat Posted August 2, 2008 Report Posted August 2, 2008 I guess if you install correctly ( proper torque ) you have no problems. after all 97 HP and still no probs. I think I'll keep the key in just to see how long it lasts. Doh, you just jinxed yourself. Quote
xXBlessedWithDeathXx Posted August 2, 2008 Report Posted August 2, 2008 I guess if you install correctly ( proper torque ) you have no problems. after all 97 HP and still no probs. I think I'll keep the key in just to see how long it lasts. I think that makes it 99 1/2 HP with the key. its all about the key man. Quote
mdhc500 Posted August 4, 2008 Author Report Posted August 4, 2008 Thanks to my PA boys, Meat, BWD, PABM... I called a few "Key" resellers and asked a few questions. This is what I was told... Around 2% of keys that are sold usually result in a customer calling back saying that the key broke or sheared off... 1/2 of these calls, the customers broke or damaged them trying to install them incorrectly. The sheared off call are most often because they are not torquing them flywheel to the proper torque setting, running them motor until its warm, and then re-torquing. 7 degree keys are reported broken/sheared more often than 4 degree keys... As for mine, it's in Fuller Lake near Pine Grove State Park if anyone wants it... Quote
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