The Big Question is answered.

[fastrthnu]

I have a set of vf2 reeds, and I took em out becuase the ported caged tdrs and 2 stage carbon pro boyeseen ran much better. Im actually about to sell my vf2`s. I can get a whole set for less than 1 side of replacements let alone the whole cage and reed block new.

[BigRed350x]

vf3 reeds dont seem to be worth it. My motor guy who was for the most part right about all the predictions said the vf3's provide very low opening tension like they are supposed too. However, they just dont seem to work as well as stock cages with carbon tech reeds, or even fmf, and boyesen setups. He had a hunch they were a bit of a hoax, so he threw them on the dyno and proved it.

 

I may post the charts, I haven't had enough time to scan them yet.

 

Just curious... do you have the stuffers on your vforce, or the restrictive stock round opening on the intake side?

 

edit: I've got vforce3's on my bike in my sig with the stuffers and it seems to run better with them than with the set of carbon fiber dual stage stockers in ported cages I have. Might be on a smaller motor you aren't seeing the response because of smaller "signal" to the reeds?? just a thought/idea.

Edited February 5, 2008 by BigRed350x

[Snopczynski]

Call Rich at dynoport, he can set you up with porting. That was the right link.

 

The vf3's we ran were with the round stuffers, then the stock intake boots were ground down to fit. Dave ran a pretty well ported 4 mill with the stock cages and carbon techs also. That motor also made more power than with the vf3's. It had pt mids on it. We should have done the comparison on the 460cc 7mill cheetah motor, but oh well.

[Snopczynski]

Ok, here is the charts and rpm readouts.

[Snopczynski]

Just curious... do you have the stuffers on your vforce, or the restrictive stock round opening on the intake side?

 

edit: I've got vforce3's on my bike in my sig with the stuffers and it seems to run better with them than with the set of carbon fiber dual stage stockers in ported cages I have. Might be on a smaller motor you aren't seeing the response because of smaller "signal" to the reeds?? just a thought/idea.

 

Carbon tech reeds are not dual stage. 1 set of petals on each side of the cage.

[Wildcardracing]

Those dyno sheets are interesting, I was suprised to see that the dual carb set up made more peak torque than the single. I can see where the single would have a nicer power-band for woods. It would be real cool to do the same set of tests with a single pipe and see what #'s ya get.

[shanYE west]

Carbon tech reeds are not dual stage. 1 set of petals on each side of the cage.

 

I dont think red said carbon tech reeds. He said dual stage carbon fiber reeds. I'm guessing boyesen pro series.

[Snopczynski]

He said his vforce reeds ran better than his stock cages with dual stage carbon reeds. Carbon tech reeds are 1 petal (single stage) so it doesn't make sense to try and compare the vforce reed to a different reed than we are talking about in the dyno testing.

[shanYE west]

He said his vforce reeds ran better than his stock cages with dual stage carbon reeds. Carbon tech reeds are 1 petal (single stage) so it doesn't make sense to try and compare the vforce reed to a different reed than we are talking about in the dyno testing.

 

Fair enough.. :smile: My bad.

[BigRed350x]

Carbon tech reeds are not dual stage. 1 set of petals on each side of the cage.

 

I didn't say carbon tech reeds. I said dual stage carbon fiber reeds.

[shanYE west]

Thats what I said Jared. This was his response.

 

He said his vforce reeds ran better than his stock cages with dual stage carbon reeds. Carbon tech reeds are 1 petal (single stage) so it doesn't make sense to try and compare the vforce reed to a different reed than we are talking about in the dyno testing.

[BigRed350x]

your saying that stock cages will perform as well or better than vofrce is a generalized statement that only applies to your setup and your dyno testing. I was simply offering another POV for this thread. You also stated that you were using the stock round stuffers that come with the vforce reeds. If you're going to say the stockers are the same or better than the vforce 3's, why not try the square stuffers or some different reed combos on the stock cages and give a more broad comparison before saying the vforce reeds are a joke.

 

Your making the claim that "V-force reeds on a 9k rpm motor are a joke." is misleading to other members who might be looking for performance upgrades. I run the Vforce3 reeds on a 9k engine and it runs better with the vforce3's than the stock cages with dual stage carbon fiber reeds.

 

I am just letting people know that every bike is different and responds differently to different mods. Just because your setup responded better ON A DYNO to stock caged reeds DOES NOT mean that vforce reeds are a "joke" on a 9k rpm engine. Simply on your setup they are. I was trying to clarify and provide a second POV to other members who might be looking at Vforce reeds as a performance upgrade who would have been misled by your post. Also keep in mind that this is a dyno, not out riding, where you will actually feel the differences. A dyno is a good tuning tool for the setup you have, but doesn't really help provide any real-life comparison information for people who are looking at performance upgrades since every bike will respond differently to different mods. Just because your bike didnt like them doesn't mean someone elses wont.

 

I understand you were just providing your findings for other members, I just didn't want them to be misled by your generalized statements, that might not really apply to everyone.

 

 

Just clarifying, not trying to start any shit.

[BigRed350x]

Thats what I said Jared. This was his response.

 

Gotcha. I replied to that above. If he is going to post dyno results and make statements that vforce reeds are a joke, then he needs to provide thorough testing to provide adaquate evidence supporting that claim. Generalizing a product for members who might be considering the vforce reeds as a mod would be misled by his statements.

[shanYE west]

are vf3 reeds really worth it at high rpm's ????

 

 

I guess you be the judge. This reed comparision is on a RDZ drag ported 350 with RDZ OOF's.

 

Reeds used are VF2's, G3 powercure (1dir), FMF RAMvalve, Pyramid, and Carbon tech on ported cages.

 

Every motor has its own preferences.. Not saying snops findings are incorrect in anyway.. I'm just showing the other side of the coin.

Edited February 11, 2008 by Fouledout421

[Snopczynski]

your saying that stock cages will perform as well or better than vofrce is a generalized statement that only applies to your setup and your dyno testing. I was simply offering another POV for this thread. You also stated that you were using the stock round stuffers that come with the vforce reeds. If you're going to say the stockers are the same or better than the force 3's, why not try the square stuffers or some different reed combos on the stock cages and give a more broad comparison before saying the vforce reeds are a joke.

 

Your making the claim that "V-force reeds on a 9k rpm motor are a joke." is misleading to other members who might be looking for performance upgrades. I run the Vforce3 reeds on a 9k engine and it runs better with the vforce3's than the stock cages with dual stage carbon fiber reeds.

 

I am just letting people know that every bike is different and responds differently to different mods. Just because your setup responded better ON A DYNO to stock caged reeds DOES NOT mean that vforce reeds are a "joke" on a 9k rpm engine. Simply on your setup they are. I was trying to clarify and provide a second POV to other members who might be looking at Vforce reeds as a performance upgrade who would have been misled by your post. Also keep in mind that this is a dyno, not out riding, where you will actually feel the differences. A dyno is a good tuning tool for the setup you have, but doesn't really help provide any real-life comparison information for people who are looking at performance upgrades since every bike will respond differently to different mods. Just because your bike didnt like them doesn't mean someone Else's wont.

 

I understand you were just providing your findings for other members, I just didn't want them to be misled by your generalized statements, that might not really apply to everyone.

 

 

Just clarifying, not trying to start any shit.

 

Ok, well I am not the one making up stuff here. Its hard to clarify things when you put words in my mouth. I never once said the vf3's are a "joke" as you put several times in capitals and quotations. If you read every post I made, it said the stock cages with carbon tech reeds outperformed them. Then it never said anything like they suck, or they are a joke, or what a piece of shit. We tested them on a 4mill and my ported 350, and the results were the same on both. So its not just a comparison on "my setup" as you put it.

 

One other thing with carbon tech reeds is you can get low, mid, and high tension reeds that you can tailor more towards your engine package and pipes. Besides all that, we weren't talking about stock cages with dual stage carbon reeds. We were talking about stock cages with a set of carbon tech single stage reeds. So, because they do come in different tensions, it will make more of a difference than just slapping in a set of generic petals or cages and hoping for the power increase. It may have been just tested on a dyno, but when those reeds were developed by moto tassinari, they were developed on a dyno. Then they use their dyno testing numbers as a huge marketing tool to sell to people like on this forum. I just simply took the setup and compared it to what other good stuff there is and posted the results after testing on a 3rd party, non-affiliated, accurate crank dyno. If moto tassinari really made a product that was that great, then the bike manufacturers would have sent them a check and dropped that cage design in all the factory bikes they make.

 

So if you run a boost bottle, and I said it made no extra power after testing 2 engines on the dyno, then will you come on here and tell everyone not to listen! Because this was on your setup, and because the manufacturer told you it would make power by just bolting it on your machine. And you can feel the difference. Its your word against the dyno, so people have to think about that. Well I can bolt on a high flow cage that everyone seems to run. It is claims to make more power, and there is dyno testing on it. Or I can fit in a reed petal that can be ordered for the specific range of power I want, and I can try that out instead for 1/3 of the cost. I realize seat of the pants is way more accurate as far as bike feel. But moto tassinari stated an increase, and you probably get an increase. However, you get a greater increase with a different setup from what I have seen. The statement can sometimes only end up being half true. It may make a difference on your machine, but did it just change something, did it make more power, or does it make less power. The dyno is a tool to help decipher that. A good dyno and dyno user knows how to adjust correction factors for load, heat, humidity, etc.... and that's the key to getting accurate results to compare things so you dont just have to bolt stuff on and ride it out in the sand to see what it did or if it made a difference.

 

So lets say if your in the market for carbon tech high tension reed petals, maybe look at trying the vforce setup. But from what I have seen so far, if you want mid reeds, stick with the carbon techs.

Edited February 11, 2008 by Snopczynski